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Question on RCW 9.41.060 (8) (Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms)

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Brad Cowin

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http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.060

(8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;
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I'm headed out to Colville National Forest here in a couple hours to go camping for a couple days. The RCW clearly states I can carry while I'm there, but I'm not so sure what it is saying about "traveling to or from". It's really no big deal, but if I can legally carry to and from, I would want to. What do you guys think? Also, is there any difference in the law carrying a loaded gun vs an unloaded gun? For example, if I'm not legally able to carry a loaded gun to or from, can I still carry it unloaded on my hip or does it have to be in a duffel bag or backpack?

Just a little more info, I'll be on a motorcycle and I'm 19 years old.
 
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Bear 45/70

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The way it was interrupted to me by a wet side game cop was that it requires you to have a hunting or fishing license for they are both a hunting licenses and a CPL while you travel to and from your hunting or fishing area. But from reading the exact wording is seems just going camping would apply too but not being qualified to understand legalese, I don't really know. The motorcycle could be an issue as it hasn't been legally decide if a CPL is required on a motorcycle or not, but being 19 the law says the gun must beunloaded in an opaque case. If I was you I would error on the side of caution. If you don'tyour weekend could get ruined.
 
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Brad Cowin

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Bear 45/70 wrote:
The way it was interrupted to me by a wet side game cop was that it requires you to have a hunting or fishing license for they are both a hunting licenses and a CPL while you travel to and from your hunting or fishing area. But from reading the exact wording is seems just going camping would apply too but not being qualified to understand legalese, I don't really know. The motorcycle could be an issue as it hasn't been legally decide if a CPL is required on a motorcycle or not, but being 19 the law says the gun must beunloaded in an opaque case. If I was you I would error on the side of caution. If you don'tyour weekend could get ruined.
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True, true...

I've been a member here for a while now and reading many of the stories and encounters has given me a huge itch to carry somewhere besides at the range / out camping. Oh well though, my day will come.
 
ghosthunter

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I think Bear is right . Here is what I have done.

Unload the gun stow it in your gear. Go camping when you get camp set up. load your gun and wear it all you want. If you get in any motorized transportation unload and stow. No one will give you any problem.

This is my opinion.

If you see a game agent while out and I would be surprised because most are working fishing area and the sound now. Ask them. They will be glad to tell you.
 
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joeroket

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The traveling to and from camping would be up to you to prove that is where you were and what you were doing. Being stinky and having camping gear should be enough proof but you never know what LEO you might encounter. Technically speaking to the letter of the law you might be legal, no legal advice here, while go directly to and coming directly from camping. I would not want to be the test case for that one. The advice given here seems to be stow and go. I would follow that advice if I were in your shoes just to be safe.
 
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Brad Cowin

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Yeah, that is what I'll do.

I just though of "part-two". I ride a dual sport bike. Meaning it is pretty much a street legal dirtbike. Should I disarm while I ride this around in the National Forest? I dont think so as it should be seen as a legitimate outdoor activity.
 
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joeroket

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Brad Cowin wrote:
Yeah, that is what I'll do.

I just though of "part-two". I ride a dual sport bike. Meaning it is pretty much a street legal dirtbike. Should I disarm while I ride this around in the National Forest? I dont think so as it should be seen as a legitimate outdoor activity.
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I would disarm. Once you get on the bike and start riding it is;

A. a vehicle for most purposes and
B. Not specifically covered under 9.41.060 as an approved activity.

Part B is the hard one. Some officers might say "It's not listed as an exemption so I am going to arrest you." It would not be worth it to me.
 
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Brad Cowin

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Yeah, I hate this crap that more or less leaves it up to the officers opinion and/or mood.

I mean, am I no longer out camping just because I'm riding my bike? Hell, all camping is to a lot of people is riding, shooting, and sitting around a fire.
 
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Bear 45/70

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Brad Cowin wrote:
Yeah, I hate this crap that more or less leaves it up to the officers opinion and/or mood.

I mean, am I no longer out camping just because I'm riding my bike? Hell, all camping is to a lot of people is riding, shooting, and sitting around a fire.
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So get your state legislator torequest the Attorney General's office to write an opinion on it.
 
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Bear 45/70

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deanf wrote:
The traveling to and from camping would be up to you to prove that is where you were and what you were doing.
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Really? I thought the burden of proof was on the state in criminal matters.
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To keep the cop from ruining your day or weekendthe burden ofproof is on you. Once you get to court then the state must prove their case but by then your weekend trip has been totally screwed.
 
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Bear 45/70

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deanf wrote:
To keep the cop from ruining your day or weekendthe burden ofproof is on you.
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Cite?
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Cite my a$$. The cop can write you for whatever he thinks you violated and if he is wrong the procecutor or judge decides. That will be long after the cop has screwed your weekend trip into adiasater you will never forget. If you can show the cop the appropiate RCW and then prove you are actually enroute to do the recreation discribed, then he will probably not write you. But if youjust say it's legal and screw you, prove it isn't, he starts writing and you have your weekend screwed. Common sense if you know anything about cops. Or do you live somewhere other than the USA where cops can't do this?
 
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deanf

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Cite my a$$.
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I've been around here a little longer than you. Show some respect.

The cop can write you for whatever he thinks you violated and if he is wrong the (sic) procecutor or judge decides.
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Yeah but he can't do that without at least the slightest pretext, and with someone who is otherwise lawful to posses a handgun and is smart enough to keep their mouth shut, and absent other criminal activity, he won't have that pretext.

(please take note that only relevant portions were quoted, and have the courtesy to follow suit. If you can't, either learn how or don't post.)
 
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joeroket

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deanf wrote:
Cite my a$$.
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I've been around here a little longer than you. Show some respect.
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Cite my a$$. ( <---- That was all in fun because I have been here a little longer then you. No offense intended )

Unfortunately there is not cite to show. It is just the way it is. As long as the officer is acting within the law, which some of them choose not to do anyway, and reasonably believes that a law has been broken then Bear is absolutely correct. No one is saying it is right but it is the way it is unfortunately.
 
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Bear 45/70

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joeroket wrote:
deanf wrote:
Cite my a$$.
Click to expand...

I've been around here a little longer than you. Show some respect.
Click to expand...
Cite my a$$. ( <---- That was all in fun because I have been here a little longer then you. No offense intended )

Unfortunately there is not cite to show. It is just the way it is. As long as the officer is acting within the law, which some of them choose not to do anyway, and reasonably believes that a law has been broken then Bear is absolutely correct. No one is saying it is right but it is the way it is unfortunately.
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You are right, that was out of line and I apologize. However a cite for this subjectis not only unreasonable but shows a lack of real life knowladge of how thing work out there in the real world.
 
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deanf

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However a cite for this subjectis not only unreasonable but shows a lack of real life knowladge of how thing work out there in the real world.
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Oh. I know how it works. I've worked in and with LE for quite a while.

I was just trying to get a discussion going. But this still stands without answer:

Yeah but he can't do that without at least the slightest pretext, and with someone who is otherwise lawful to posses a handgun and is smart enough to keep their mouth shut, and absent other criminal activity, he won't have that pretext.
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Now I tend to believe that most cops have integrity, and won't trump-up charges to be later dispensed with by the prosecutor. That's true of most that I've dealt with.

Now Bear, you regale us with stories about how you love to cooperate with the police, yet you seem to harbor a deep mistrust of them, implying that they will trump up charges anytime the breeze blows their skirt up. I find this contradiction intriguing.

(Standard Bear involved thread instructions: please take note that only relevant portions were quoted, and have the courtesy to follow suit. If you can't, either learn how or don't post.)
 
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joeroket

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M1Gunr wrote:
Brad Cowin wrote:
Just a little more info, I'll be on a motorcycle and I'm 19 years old.
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where did I miss that that you could be under 21 and carry a pistol ? off your personal property?
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9.41.060 gives an exemption for any person to carry a firearm while participating in lawful outdoor activities such as..... blah blah. It does not give an age requirement.
 
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American Rattlesnake

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M1Gunr wrote:
Brad Cowin wrote:
Just a little more info, I'll be on a motorcycle and I'm 19 years old.
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where did I miss that that you could be under 21 and carry a pistol ? off your personal property?
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RCW 9.41.240 Possession of pistol by person from eighteen to twenty-one.
Unless an exception under RCW 9.41.042, 9.41.050, or 9.41.060 applies, a person at least eighteen years of age, but less than twenty-one years of age, may possess a pistol only:

(1) In the person's place of abode;

(2) At the person's fixed place of business; or

(3) On real property under his or her control.
-------------------------------------


The relevant exception is this one:

RCW 9.41.060
(8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;
 
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