Monthly Colorado Springs OCO Meet-n'-Greet

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Anyone who wants to join in on these 1st-day/1st-weekend of the month OCO meetings; email, PM, or call me. For August, the 1st lands on a Friday, which may work out better for some of us than waiting until Saturday or Sunday.... Less conflict with family, church, work schedules, etc.

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Unlessthe majority attendingdisagree, by default the range we'll initially meet up at will be the Rampart Range Rd.public shootingrange. For those that've never been to this range, I highly recommend that a fair quantity of water (and possibly snacks)be brought for hydration, as there are no facilities up there. That means heavy-duty trash bags, TP, & a e-tool is a must as well for when nature calls. Please, either carry out your waste, or dig a cat-hole & bury it. There's been an ongoing fight against range closure with the Park/Forest Service as a result of people trashing the place with garbage & waste. Leaving empty brass or hulls is fine, but please pick up any empty packaging or used targets for disposal later.

Unless the majority attending disagree, the default initial meet-up time will be between 4pm-6pm. On nice-weather weekends, the Rampart range is always most crowded from 10am until 3pm-4pm. Once it starts getting hot around 3pm, people start leaving; or the ones that showed up early run out of ammo. Generally by 5pm, all the yahoos have left.

An issue with the time that I can forsee is weather. As we locals from the Springsknow, this is the time of year when those dailyrain/thunder-squalls pop up in the late afternoon. I myself don't mind getting a little wet and waiting for the rain to pass on by, but there may be someOCO members in attendance who don't want to risk getting an expensive/sensitive firearm wet. So if the consensus is that we try to avoid the late afternoonsqualls, we can move the meet-up time to early morning; to around7am-8'ish. That'll allow us to keep from being crowded at the shooting tables by careless idiots, and avoid the heat later on.

After we're done shooting, it's just a short drive down to the Front Range BBQ for refreshments or brunch/dinner. From there we can part ways, head over to Sportsmans/Specialty/Big5 for more ammo, or stroll as a group along Old Town's business fronts for some window/actual shopping. If we choose to do that, I suggest that everyoneiron-out their responses for curious/scared/offensive citizens or LEOs. I didn't suggest that we have a monthy OCO meeting as a means to make active political statements, but we should be prepared regardless.

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Under no circumstances will alcoholic beverages be brought or consumedduringour OpenCarry.org monthly meeting. I believe that we're all adults, and that we can behaveresponsibly & show the general public that we're not a bunch of gun-clinging drunk hicks. But there'susually gotta be at least onebonehead that decides to buck the rules and ruin it for everyone, so I feel that the no-booze rule needs to be reiterated. Don't get me wrong; I'm all for kicking back and having a beer, just don't do it while we'regathered as a representative group..... and whileevery single one of us isOC'ing a handgun. That's just begging for a hoplophobe to point us out as a bunch of drunks waving guns around to an overzealous LEO.

Under no circumstanceswill any OCO member withdraw their handgun from its' holster, except for use inlawful self-defense. I'm sureat somepoint there will be a curious citizen orreporter that will ask to see an OCO member's handgunmore closely. Simplylet them lean in for a closer look, make no motion to draw, and make sure they keep their hands off. Then politely direct them toSpecialty Sports (for ex.) if they want to actually handle a handgun.

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On days with inclement weather, we may want to head to Whistling Pines Gun Club for $10 Guest Passes (As per WPGC's Home Page).

Or if we have a lot of members who want to shoot their Mausers, Mosin Nagants, AKs, ARs, Enfield SMLEs, Arisakas, etc; and don't want to buy expensive new ammo, we can go shooting at Dragonmans. Range use is $8/person, he has a variety of paper targets for sale, and he has a fairly large selection of milsurp ammo (8mm Mauser, .303 British, 7.62x54R/7.62x39/5.45x39 Russian, .30-06, .308/7.62 NATO, 6.5mm/7.7mm Arisaka, etc).

Another reason to visit Dragonmans is that we could reserve a tour through his military history museum. Reservations are required, we can't just show up. Unfortunately, Dragonmans is kinda in the middle of nowhere, so it's a bit of a drive back into town for food.

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Any other suggestions or thoughts for making this a monthly reality?

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I'm very supportive of this initiative. As in any association movement - trying to make it happen involves harmonizing with the personal and demographic differences. That's OK. One size -will never fit ALL. WE do NEED to MEET and GREET and learn WHO we are, and how we can become aneffective political force. I expect WE are already a strong factor in contacting legislative representatives, voting, etc. My wife & I will most likely fall-in with the group at the "sit-down" phase (resturaunt, whatever). We ARE however a very visible part of the OC movement in the Springs. Because my wife & I are retired we are able to engage in the practice of OC on a daily basis - pretty much everywhere we go - because we can pick & choose where we go. I am particularly interested in legal aspects of our 2nd & 13th enumerated civil right as it affects Colorado residents. We are blessed to be living in Colorado - not just because of the Rockies , but to have one of the most freedom friendly state constitutions in the Union. - even though Colorado Revised Statutes ( and Denver ordinances)require some amending to be brought into harmony with the Colorado Constitution. " Endeavor to persevere ".

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I'd prefer Dragon Mans to Rampart. Whistling Pines would be fine, I'm a member there, but they have only 10 lanes open at present. I've heard very little good about Rampart.

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I'm not much of an organization person, but I appreciate the synergy principle of like-minded folks "connecting", networking, brainstorming, and maybe harmonizing their efforts. I know ONE thing for sure - if 2 or more people spend enough time in conversation they WILL eventually disagree, or take exception to the "style" of the other. I'm just sort of "free-floating" in my thoughts here- so this isn't definitive. Maybe our efforts towards greater acceptance of the RKBA as WE practice it - would be better served throughthe "ant hill" model.
Like a colony of ants we are all working towards a common purpose: re-establishing the acceptability of the open wearing of a side-arm for the purpose of deterence or defense against criminal confrontation when venturing out of the homeinto the public domain. I don't know that Iam convinced of the efficacy of publicly demonstrating my RKBAas part of a LARGE "group event". My reasoning goes like this . If I have the right to OC, and I AM routinely excercising my right publicly, is it really going to be productive to the furthering of said right to engage in a planned collectiveexcercise ofthat right that is intended toenhance public sensitivity to that right's existence.......... or issuch a demonstrationgoing to be counter-productive in polarizing the ISSUE into the realm of excruciating public debate over an issue that is largely settled. I refer to the "Termin-X" commercial we have seen on TV here recently - wherein this gigantic, formidable termite appears at the door and ask to be allowed into the house for some excuse. If we have this right (and we DO), we don't have to "ring door bells" in order to "make our case" to the general public. Maybe just practice our right in a polite, respectful, casual manner in the normal course of our daily routine. Again - I am merely "floating" some thoughts that I have had. We've all been in the swimming pool when some socially challenged clown did a "cannon ball"and practically emptied the pool of water ????I guess I'm suggesting a measure of caution - perhaps unnecessarily. My 2 favorite all-time quotes are 1) "Endeavor to persevere" and 2) "Extremism always brings about its own destruction".I'm certainly not suggesting on-going efforts to organize a "MEET" are lacking in wisdom, or foresight - PLEEAASE.I rest my case - PILE ON .. or put my mind at ease.

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SANDCREEK wrote:

I'm not much of an organization person, but I appreciate the synergy principle of like-minded folks "connecting", networking, brainstorming, and maybe harmonizing their efforts. I know ONE thing for sure - if 2 or more people spend enough time in conversation they WILL eventually disagree, or take exception to the "style" of the other. I'm just sort of "free-floating" in my thoughts here- so this isn't definitive. Maybe our efforts towards greater acceptance of the RKBA as WE practice it - would be better served throughthe "ant hill" model.
Like a colony of ants we are all working towards a common purpose: re-establishing the acceptability of the open wearing of a side-arm for the purpose of deterence or defense against criminal confrontation when venturing out of the homeinto the public domain. I don't know that Iam convinced of the efficacy of publicly demonstrating my RKBAas part of a LARGE "group event". My reasoning goes like this . If I have the right to OC, and I AM routinely excercising my right publicly, is it really going to be productive to the furthering of said right to engage in a planned collectiveexcercise ofthat right that is intended toenhance public sensitivity to that right's existence.......... or issuch a demonstrationgoing to be counter-productive in polarizing the ISSUE into the realm of excruciating public debate over an issue that is largely settled.

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Um..... yeah..... you've read waaaay too much into my suggestion. Not that you're far off on your opinions; on the contrary, I agree with you.

This monthly Colorado Springs OCDO-memberevent isn't a going to, or was intended to be, a "LARGE group event" for the demonstration of our RTKBA and/or OC. Our monthly meeting is not for showcasing or advocating open-carry to the general public who don't carry handguns or own firearms. The intent of an OCDO-Colorado Springs monthly get-together is to simply meet up with fellow OCDO members, put faces to names, possibly do some plinking, and then repair to a quality OC-friendly eatery or park for some good food & good company.

That we'll be OC'ing as a group in publicis secondary; if a hoplophobe or liberal decides to maliciously attack our RTKBA andthe open-carry of our handgunswhile we're having our own fun together, I'll be the first to dissuadeour groupfrom arguingwith saidanti-gun person.

That sort of individual has already cemented their stance on the RTKBA, and no amount of intelligent, logical debate will change their mind. The sole purpose of such a person is only to insult and create a scene; probably in the hopes that one of us will lose our cool and resort to loud, harsh language, even touching or drawinga sidearm! Their intent is tofabricate a public debacle and to prove to onlookers that we're dangerous, bitter, gun-clinginghicks; total victory for this hypotheticalanti-gun activist would be for one, or some, of us to be arrested by LEOs responding to a public disturbance and/orbrandishingby a group of armed individuals. While it is incredibly unlikely that suchan encounter would occur and escalate to that degree, as a group of OCDO members and law-abiding gun-owners, it is foremost that we avoidbeing drawn into any negative debate/arguments. And if our OC'ing presence is obviously causing a disturbance amongst other citizens at any location, it should be our policy that we, as a group, will leave the area withoutcomment.

However, I fully encourage attending OCDO members to educate & encourage any honestly curious citizens who may approach our group with questions about open-carry,the 2nd Amendment & our RTKBA, or firearms in general.

As a Colorado Springs OCDO group,I feel thatif we enter a restaurant or other establishment, an employee notices our sidearms and verbally questions the suitability of allowing us to eat there, one of us should informour waiter/waitress orhost/greeter that our group is representative of OpenCarryDotOrg, and that wedo not intend on making anypublic statements or demonstrations, nor are we intent on"recruiting". We should also request that our seating be in a location not"front-&-center"; thisshouldease theemployee's concerns. But if theestablisment's initial position is that our patronage is out-of-the-question as long as we'reOC'ing, then we take our hard-earned money and leave.

Gunslinger wrote:

I'd prefer Dragon Mans to Rampart. Whistling Pines would be fine, I'm a member there, but they have only 10 lanes open at present. I've heard very little good about Rampart.

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My position on DragonMans is that we should only go there if some of us want to shoot milsurps and the specific milsurp ammunition is only available there.... or we intend on visiting his museum, orplan on paintballing. DM is kinda remote from town, and if we want to gather for food afterwards, a lot of gas will be used in driving back. Also, DM's range is only open until 4:30pm, which could exclude those who have to work on the day of our meeting.

I've seen that on very nice weekend days, DM's range can get very crowded; just working your way through the gaggle of snotty paintball kids & parents and people browsing gunsinside the store, getting the attention of Mel or another employee, signing-in & paying, and then possibly buying ammo can be a huge headache. Also, depending on who has volunteered to play range-master, the range itself can be an aggravatingcluster-fudge. If there are a lot of shooters, it's a fairly common occurance that someone does something stupid, and the range-master will shut the range down while he sorts-out the offender..... or whencalling the range cold/hot for target placement/checking, a lot of shooters will take their sweet time tacking up targets, counting/marking or BS'ing about theirshot-placement. It's a lot to deal with for $8-$10 per shooter. Oh, and the porta-johns don't get cleaned out often at all (at least while I was regularly shooting there), and they were fairly vile.

So.... the driving distance, cost of gas/range-time/ammo, 4:30 closing-time, and crowded range could exclude some of us who can't afford it or take time off work/family-matters.

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The Rampart range isn't nearly as bad as some have made it out to be. In fact, I've found that most people who complain about Rampart have only been there once on a crowded day, or more often, haven't been there at all and are just regurgitating what they heard someone else say. By far, the biggest issue/problem with Rampart has been the trash. Until recently when a group of Rampart regulars took it upon themselves, thetreeline opposite the parking area,the parking area, and the range itselfwas littered with garbage (empty ammo boxes, plastic bags, bottles/cans/jugs, scrap metal, etc). The Forest Service was threatening to close the range down, and as a result the place was cleaned up. Some people still are careless about leaving their rubbish, but most are now aware of the problem and pack out their garbage.

As I mentioned in my original post, bringing your own water, e-tool, heavy-duty garbage bagsand toiletries is imperative for Rampart. If nature calls; do so well away from the range & parking area, and eitherbag-it & pack-it, or dig an adequatecat-hole. Open flames for cooking and tracer ammunition is either highly discouraged or banned during high fire-conditions, I forget which. Either way, nobody lights fires or uses tracers up there. A long while back, one guy had a .50 rifle, and he fired a single tracer round. I have no idea where the ranger came from, but in less than five minutes one appeared and wrote the guy a fairly expensive ticket.

Rampart's main firing line berm is 100yds (or 120, I forget)out; the two pistol lane bernsare approx. 50yds out, and there's a shotgun-only firing line a little ways away from the main & pistol lanes. LEOs do periodically show up, and they will ticket anyone firing anything but shotguns on the shotgun-only line, as there's no backstop. The main firing line has 6 or 7 steel shooting tables (two-position seating), and one chest-high shooting bench. Both pistol lines have one steel shooting table and one shooting bench (IIRC). There's no official range-master, but even on crowded days,calling the range cold for target placement/checking runs smoothly & safely. Even if only one ortwo people need to place/check targets, all they need to do is loudly call outfor atarget-check ceasefire. Every time this happens, all shootingstops, and firearms are unloaded &placed onto the tables.

In as long as I've been shooting up at Rampart, I've only seen a blatant unsafe act twice; both times the perps had been drinking and playing grab&$$, and they were promptly ejected from the range by the majority. I've seen a handful of other minor unsafe acts, but other shooters are extremely quick to correct the issue. The vast majority of those who shoot at Rampart act as range-safeties (without being bossy/offensive); theyhandle theirfirearms responsibly, look out for each other, and will not tolerate unsafe behavior.

Rampart is only rarely so crowded that every table & bench is occupied. On the average weekend, there are usually only about 15-25 active shooters during peak-hours (10am-3pm), spread between the main, pistol, and shotgun lines. The most crowded I ever saw it on was Memorial Day with possibly 30+ active shooters, requiring that shooters share their tables with others. Big deal.

The main 100yd range slopes down, and then back up to the berm,which requires a bit of aim-correction unless your target is right at the berm which is pretty much level with the firing line. The two pistol 50ydranges are level & straightforward, and are separated by a dividing berm. Oh, and it takes about 20min to drive up there in my solid-axle Jeep (at 10-15mph). Plus Rampart is right close to GOTG, which is now OC friendly, so after shooting we can head down to the park for a pick-ih-nick.

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We ARE on the "same page" here ANAXIMPERATOR.As I said - I'm in support of this effort - so much so that I don't want it to get "botched". My feeling is "loose canons" arealways a concern. Seems like there ALWAYS has to be at least ONE "class clown" in any group. Ifthere isn't ONE present at the "get-go" , then by default one will "appoint" himself to fill that slot. Let's leave the "Macho" EGO at home - and bring along plenty of HUMILITY. People will be watching - and taking "notes".

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That we'll be OC'ing as a group in publicis secondary; if a hoplophobe or liberal decides to maliciously attack our RTKBA andthe open-carry of our handgunswhile we're having our own fun together, I'll be the first to dissuadeour groupfrom arguingwith saidanti-gun person.



So, we just open fire on them?:celebrate

I'm kidding, I'm kidding...

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Gunslinger wrote:

So, we just open fire on them?:celebrate

I'm kidding, I'm kidding...

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...... depending on how obnoxious and brainwashed they are. :cuss:

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Gunslinger wrote:

if a hoplophobe or liberal decides to maliciously attack our RTKBA andthe open-carry of our handgunswhile we're having our own fun together, I'll be the first to dissuadeour groupfrom arguingwith saidanti-gun person.

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No argument is an excellent idea. If you all just stare at him or her in silence, the rant will probably taper off quickly...