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Thread: Liquor Store ?

  1. #1
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    just a quick question , anyone ever get heat for OC in the liquor Store AND buying Alcohol? plenty of LEOs there at night right befor closing time! and it is a goverment building! right ?!?!?!?

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    I am not a drinker, but from my understanding the liquor stores in utah are STATE run so I wouldn't worry about breaking any laws.

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    It's not a federal building, so you are fine, in fact, being a state run store, they must obey the law and CANNOT prohibit firearms, since they are not a private business.

    I would still advise against alcohol consumption while carrying.

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    schwarzi88 wrote:
    just a quick question , anyone ever get heat for OC in the liquor Store AND buying Alcohol? plenty of LEOs there at night right befor closing time! and it is a goverment building! right ?!?!?!?
    Intersting Q. i was just at the AF liquor store after OCing all day with my wife, like 2 days ago. i left my 9mm in the truck when i went in. Got a bit nervous. When we checked out, i asked the lady behind the counter, "Is this building owed by the state?" She said "No, its individually owed" i got all excited and asked almost right away - "So, i can bring my firearm in then!" She kinda gave me this funny look and cocked her head and said ," I don't think you can carry a gun ANYWHERE anymore, sir?" I got a HUGE smile on my face and and plesantly gave her this URL to check out. Told her that SHE was an American citizen and could carry too. She smiled.

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    scorpioajr wrote:
    Told her that SHE was an American citizen and could carry too. She smiled.
    Citizenship isn't even a requirement. Should have said that that she was in America and could carry, too.

  6. #6
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    I've gone into a couple of different one's, had no problem.

  7. #7
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    schwarzi88 wrote:
    just a quick question , anyone ever get heat for OC in the liquor Store AND buying Alcohol? plenty of LEOs there at night right befor closing time! and it is a goverment building! right ?!?!?!?
    AbsoFREAKINlutely:celebrate.

    JD and Bacardi WILL get protected under ANY circumstances.

    You can carry in there. I do it ALL the time and had some good discussions with BOTH employees and customers.

    UTAH STATE LIQUOR stores

    TJ

  8. #8
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    schwarzi88 wrote:
    just a quick question , anyone ever get heat for OC in the liquor Store AND buying Alcohol? plenty of LEOs there at night right befor closing time! and it is a goverment building! right ?!?!?!?
    76-10-523.5. Compliance with rules for secure facilities.
    Any person, including a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm under Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapons, shall comply with any rule established for secure facilities pursuant to Sections 53B-3-103, 76-8-311.1, 76-8-311.3, and 78A-2-203 and shall be subject to any penalty provided in those sections.

    If you check the cross referenced sections of code you will NOT find State owned liquor stores listed as a secure facility.

    Neither are they are a school zone, and in most cases should not be located within a school zone (for those without permits to carry who need to worry about school zones).

    Neither is there any law prohibiting consumption of alcohol while carrying, simply a prohibition on being intoxicated while in possession of a firearm. There are plenty of people who suggest never drinking at al while carrying and while there are some issues to think about in that regard, in Utah it is not illegal.

    That all said such stores likely fall into two categories:

    1-'Those run by the State that would NOT be allowed to ban guns as they would be subject to State preemption; and

    2-Those run by a private interest (such as inside a hotel, club, etc) that are perfectly within their legal rights to exclude guns if they so choose.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  9. #9
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    scorpioajr wrote:
    Intersting Q. i was just at the AF liquor store after OCing all day with my wife, like 2 days ago. i left my 9mm in the truck when i went in. Got a bit nervous. When we checked out, i asked the lady behind the counter, "Is this building owed by the state?" She said "No, its individually owed" i got all excited and asked almost right away - "So, i can bring my firearm in then!" She kinda gave me this funny look and cocked her head and said ," I don't think you can carry a gun ANYWHERE anymore, sir?" I got a HUGE smile on my face and and plesantly gave her this URL to check out. Told her that SHE was an American citizen and could carry too. She smiled.
    WHAT are you talking about!?!?!?!?

    Will you PLEASE get some training/education on what is or is not off limits before you get yourself arrested and/or give us all some really black eyes?

    Except for secure areas, the State of Utah and its political subdivisions, agencies, etc, CANNOT ban your legally owned and carried guns.

    A PRIVATE business owner, however, may ban most anything he wants other than what is protected by civil rights laws (race, religion, political affiliation, disability, gender, etc).

    PLEASE do some research on UTAH law.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  10. #10
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    utbagpiper wrote:
    scorpioajr wrote:
    Intersting Q. i was just at the AF liquor store after OCing all day with my wife, like 2 days ago. i left my 9mm in the truck when i went in. Got a bit nervous. When we checked out, i asked the lady behind the counter, "Is this building owed by the state?" She said "No, its individually owed" i got all excited and asked almost right away - "So, i can bring my firearm in then!" She kinda gave me this funny look and cocked her head and said ," I don't think you can carry a gun ANYWHERE anymore, sir?" I got a HUGE smile on my face and and plesantly gave her this URL to check out. Told her that SHE was an American citizen and could carry too. She smiled.
    WHAT are you talking about!?!?!?!?

    Will you PLEASE get some training/education on what is or is not off limits before you get yourself arrested and/or give us all some really black eyes?

    Except for secure areas, the State of Utah and its political subdivisions, agencies, etc, CANNOT ban your legally owned and carried guns.

    A PRIVATE business owner, however, may ban most anything he wants other than what is protected by civil rights laws (race, religion, political affiliation, disability, gender, etc).

    PLEASE do some research on UTAH law.
    Wow dude. bad day?

    how about i PM you my opinions and random posts benfore i throw them on? geez, open forum my ass. I really don't see what i did as rude or anything that gave the gal a bad impression of me. YOU however...wow. I basically asked the same question as the origional poster, you answered his with statutes and mine with a flame....

    ..Dick.

  11. #11
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    scorpioajr wrote:
    Wow dude. bad day?

    how about i PM you my opinions and random posts benfore i throw them on? geez, open forum my ass. I really don't see what i did as rude or anything that gave the gal a bad impression of me. YOU however...wow. I basically asked the same question as the origional poster, you answered his with statutes and mine with a flame....

    ..Dick.
    No, the OP asked about legality BEFORE running out into public with a gun.

    Your post demonstrated a clear and obvious error in understanding of Utah's gun laws AND you passed that misinformed opinion off on a member of the public as if it were true.

    Further, YOU have repeatedly posted accounts of engaging in conduct you did not know to be legal, but doing it anyway.

    Do you WANT to spend time in jail?

    Please, get some education on what UTAH laws actually allow and prohibit before making potentially life altering decisions.


    We have enough challenges educating the public as to what is or is not legal without our own numbers being as grossly ill- and mis-informed as one might expect the media to be.

    And this has nothing to do with whether this is an open forum or not. Your right to post accounts of being foolish does NOT limit MY RIGHT to post responses lest any lurkers or others who happen to read your accounts gets the impression that your actions are representative of responsible gun owners to make sure to KNOW the law BEFORE they act.

    OP asked about a situtation BEFORE carrying there. THAT is responsible.

    YOU repeatedly post about doing things without knowing the legalitiy. THAT is grossly IRRESPONSIBLE.

    See the difference?

    I've yet to flame you and if you think my gentle corrections/chastisment is a flame, you need to get out more.

    Now, PLEASE, do some reading of statute. Have you ever read 76-10-5xx, much less the other chapters touching on firearm possession and use? Have you read Vilos' book on Utah gun laws? Have you ever taken a concealed permit class in Utah?

    If not, why?

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  12. #12
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    utbagpiper wrote:
    scorpioajr wrote:
    Wow dude. bad day?

    how about i PM you my opinions and random posts benfore i throw them on? geez, open forum my ass. I really don't see what i did as rude or anything that gave the gal a bad impression of me. YOU however...wow. I basically asked the same question as the origional poster, you answered his with statutes and mine with a flame....

    ..Dick.
    ...Your post demonstrated a clear and obvious error in understanding of Utah's gun laws AND you passed that misinformed opinion off on a member of the public as if it were true......
    so she wasnt' alwed to carry as an American?? thats the only statement i made to her. And secondly, what conduct was i in that was bad? i thought i was doing good by leaving my gun in the truck and ASKING her before i did it. wow guys.

    Nice and friendly here. have fun on your forums. im far too uneducated for the likes of you.

  13. #13
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    scorpioajr wrote:
    utbagpiper wrote:
    scorpioajr wrote:
    Wow dude. bad day?

    how about i PM you my opinions and random posts benfore i throw them on? geez, open forum my ass. I really don't see what i did as rude or anything that gave the gal a bad impression of me. YOU however...wow. I basically asked the same question as the origional poster, you answered his with statutes and mine with a flame....

    ..Dick.
    ...Your post demonstrated a clear and obvious error in understanding of Utah's gun laws AND you passed that misinformed opinion off on a member of the public as if it were true......
    so she wasnt' alwed to carry as an American?? thats the only statement i made to her. And secondly, what conduct was i in that was bad? i thought i was doing good by leaving my gun in the truck and ASKING her before i did it. wow guys.

    Nice and friendly here. have fun on your forums. im far too uneducated for the likes of you.
    scorpioajr,

    I do believe that utbagpiperwas out of line here in the way that he approached your post(s).

    Stick around and there is PLENTY to learn. I still learn things on this forum. Don't let utbagpiperdiscourage you. I do think that you acted correctly by putting the sidearm in the car BEFORE you entered.

    There is 1 good rule....better safe than sorry.

    We want you around here.



    TJ

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    scorpioajr wrote:
    utbagpiper wrote:
    scorpioajr wrote:
    Wow dude. bad day?

    how about i PM you my opinions and random posts benfore i throw them on? geez, open forum my ass. I really don't see what i did as rude or anything that gave the gal a bad impression of me. YOU however...wow. I basically asked the same question as the origional poster, you answered his with statutes and mine with a flame....

    ..Dick.
    ...Your post demonstrated a clear and obvious error in understanding of Utah's gun laws AND you passed that misinformed opinion off on a member of the public as if it were true......
    so she wasnt' alwed to carry as an American?? thats the only statement i made to her. And secondly, what conduct was i in that was bad? i thought i was doing good by leaving my gun in the truck and ASKING her before i did it. wow guys.

    Nice and friendly here. have fun on your forums. im far too uneducated for the likes of you.
    scorpioajr,

    "....I do think that you acted correctly by putting the sidearm in the car BEFORE you entered....
    Thats all i was figurin'. thnx

  15. #15
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    scorpioajr wrote:
    ..
    so she wasnt' alwed to carry as an American?? thats the only statement i made to her. And secondly, what conduct was i in that was bad? i thought i was doing good by leaving my gun in the truck and ASKING her before i did it. wow guys.

    Nice and friendly here. have fun on your forums. im far too uneducated for the likes of you.
    Let's see, in another thread you admitted to carrying in a store with a bank despite not knowing if it was legal.

    In this post, you make clear that you are completely backwards in your understanding of who can ban guns here in Utah. Private property can ban guns all day long. State (or county or city) owned property cannot unless it is a secure area. Federal property can and usually does ban gun (excluding, generally, BLM and forest service land).

    You clearly need to learn a lot more about Utah and US gun laws. And please do.

    If you wish to take offense, that is your right. But none was intended.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  16. #16
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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:

    scorpioajr,

    I do believe that utbagpiperwas out of line here in the way that he approached your post(s).

    Stick around and there is PLENTY to learn. I still learn things on this forum. Don't let utbagpiperdiscourage you. I do think that you acted correctly by putting the sidearm in the car BEFORE you entered.

    There is 1 good rule....better safe than sorry.

    We want you around here.



    TJ
    In what way was I out of line? For noticing a distinct trend of a poster NOT knowing the laws, what he does "know" being wrong, and running around with a gun despite his admitted, evident ignorance of the law?

    Look, this group spared no ridicule for the Riverton Police chief who shot himself while disassembling his gun. Why is gross ignornance of statutory laws any less worthy of correction than gross failure to abide basic safety rules?

    I've NEVER jumped down anyone for asking what the law is.

    But after MULTPLE posts demonstrating a desire and willingness to act without knowing the law, and some apparent aversion to actually learning the law, not to mention a dumb-a$$ poll about "wounding or killing" it is clear to me that scorpioajr is a walking disaster just waiting to happen. Not only does he choose to carry a gun without knowing the laws governing such possession, but he clearly does not even understand the most basic of laws governing use of deadly force.

    That said, ignorance is curable and I have tried to encourage him to get cured of it. I have even offered some easy ways to do so. He clearly has NOT availed himself of those options, and I suspect has little intention of doing so.

    My first few responses to this guy were very polite and civil. That garned only scorn and ridicule from him so I'm going to be very blunt in pointing out his ignorance and mistakes when he posts them here.

    We do not need anyone thinking conduct such as his is representative of the larger OC or gun owning community.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  17. #17
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    Ok, so to put out the flames, perhaps I can add a little something from a third party perspective.

    utbagpiper's response did come off a little harsh... at least that's what I felt after reading it. However, his points are valid despite the tone. I often feel that his critique is stern, but he is almost always correct with his facts and opinions.

    scorpioajr, you should definitely get a copy of Mitch Vilos' Utah Gun Law, 3rd Edition and read it immediately. It's a very helpful resource to learning all about the Utah and Federal Laws pertaining to firearms. It's the best $20 I ever spent. I still crack it open frequently to help answer other's questions and provide references to the local statutes.

    Also, I do feel a little awkward reading about some of your experiences carrying openly. Whether it's your demeanor or method of story-telling, I do find myself cringing a bit when I hear how things go for you and your opinions on the law and your rights (many of which are wrong, but they are yours and I respect that).

    I would hope that you will take any negative comments here as "constructive criticism" and not so personally. The LAST thing I want is for you to feel unwelcome and stop contributing to the forum. However, there MUST be some room for critique and we all must be able to learn from mistakes to become more proficient and professional.

    If you are coming to the BBQ on Thursday, I would love to talk with you some more and try to answer and questions you may have or listen to any concerns. We are family here and should be a tight-knit group, hopefully that is something we will continue to word towards.

  18. #18
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    A chatroom slap on the face is better than a set of cuffs when learning the law.



    I think most all of us have (due to a lack of understanding of all the laws) broken (or didn't carry for fear of breaking) the law.With all the resources we havefor cheap ($20)/free with 3-4 hours of reading and a dozen or so posts we canlearn these laws so we don't make a costly mistake.

  19. #19
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    GeneticsDave wrote:
    ...f you are coming to the BBQ on Thursday....
    i will most certainly wait for next years event.

    Thank you all for your critique. My method of story telling aside, or personal opinions of my rights aside, here are the facts:

    A) I have never committed a felony in my life.
    B) I own and NOW, carry (a) firearm(s)
    C) I do my best to not break laws. The ones i agree with or not.
    D) ....just found out i can OC and am DAMN excited about it.

    ...So, ya. So sorry Im so different. (??) And happen to be catching your guy's flak. All I have really been trying to do around here is get involved, and basically have just said the wrong thing everything (so it would seems from the reactions). Im not too sure why i am even responding right now...

    ..from now on, ill just post VALID questions and save my experiences for my friends, family and wife. got it.

    ...let the flames come.

  20. #20
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    Being different or having different opinions isn't what anyone is talking about. I have a very different opinion on many political and religious issues than most people on this forum but I am not offended when someone posts their views. I don't respond because this isn't the place to discuss those things so I just talk about guns here but you can't take it personal when someone disagrees with your opinion.

    The issue here is many of your ideas about gun law are not correct and many people (myself included) don't think anyone should carry a gun without a firm grasp of the laws. You don't have to memorize word for word the codes on gun law but you do need to know what is legal and what isn't.

    I think one of the main concerns was your poll about deadly force which showed a complete lack of understanding about deadly force laws. I don't know if you have a CCW permit or not but in that class they go over deadly force quite a bit and you should take the class even if you don't want to CC. Also as everyone has suggested read Vilos' book. I think he also has another book based entirely on self defense law but I haven't read it.

    We welcome your personal experiences and encourage you to share them, but don't be suprised if someone points out something that you did that they disagree with. That is the whole point of a forum... for people to post their opinions and create discussion so people can see different sides of things.

    The trick is to not be offended if someone has a different view or corrects you when you say something factually wrong. A big issue with ignorance of gun law is people who spread misinformation and others take it as truth.

    Hopefully you stick around and use this forum as one of the many ways to become more familiar with gun laws.

  21. #21
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    scorpioajr wrote:
    GeneticsDave wrote:
    ...f you are coming to the BBQ on Thursday....
    i will most certainly wait for next years event.

    Thank you all for your critique. My method of story telling aside, or personal opinions of my rights aside, here are the facts:

    A) I have never committed a felony in my life.
    B) I own and NOW, carry (a) firearm(s)
    C) I do my best to not break laws. The ones i agree with or not.
    D) ....just found out i can OC and am DAMN excited about it.

    ...So, ya. So sorry Im so different. (??) And happen to be catching your guy's flak. All I have really been trying to do around here is get involved, and basically have just said the wrong thing everything (so it would seems from the reactions). Im not too sure why i am even responding right now...

    ..from now on, ill just post VALID questions and save my experiences for my friends, family and wife. got it.

    ...let the flames come.
    I'm sorry that you don't want to attend, we would like to meet you. I hope your future experience here is positive. It seems that my post didn't do what I intended, and for that, I am sorry.

  22. #22
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    KKKKKKKKKKKKKKkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk , my questions were answered like 11 posts ago can i PLEASE get an admin. to colse this thread so we avoid anymore unnessisery problems!

  23. #23
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    scorpioajr wrote:
    Nice and friendly here. have fun on your forums. im far too uneducated for the likes of you.
    Chill, dude.

    Bagpiper was a bit strong in his posts, but he's really trying to help you, and he really knows what he's talking about.

    You're taking some pretty big risks, OC'ing without understanding the law. I understand that you were trying to be careful by leaving the gun in the car, and that's a good thing -- but a much BETTER thing is to learn the law. As Utahbagpiper pointed out, firearms laws are pretty unforgiving of mistakes. None of us want to see you get in trouble.

    If you want to get some education for free, come to the BBQ. I'm sure we'll have lots of discussion about it, and also about who the good CFP instructors are (You REALLY, REALLY want to take a CFP class, even if you don't get your CFP).

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    who is a good CFP instructor in Utah county?


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