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Thread: Lawsuits: The OTHER form of self defense.

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    Not to get off on the wrong foot, I want to offer a disclaimer that is not an anti-cop rant. Do remember that this is THE only reasonable recourse a person has to gain satisfaction for police misconduct, IMHO. The FBI rarely responds, official complaints (my opinion) do not get a meaningful response, and the other options of having a shootout or fist fight is bad for everyone, and almost always worse for the non-cop person involved.

    Ok, so we have all seen cases here of the cops going bonkers over people that open carry, from breaking up your license in Ohio to interrupting a nice buffett dinner in PA.

    What's a person to do if they want to defend their right to defend themselves, and I humbly submit that you should be as aggressive as defending your rights as you should be defending yourself or your family.

    The old ancient western art of self defense known as : I-sue

    Now, conventional wisdom says that for a person to sue, you have to go get a lawyer, pay a retainer, and wait years for the outcome. The end result is that you may get your result, but as the old lawyer saying you can only get as much justice as you can afford.

    Well, while the above is one technique, it is not the only way to go about it.

    Alternatively, it has been offered here to do FOIA type requests, write informational letters to the police chief, do formal complaints against the officers, and show up at town hall meetings.

    With great respect to the individuals that participate in this method of trying to nudge the government along, I don't think it is necessarily the most effective.

    I have found that nothing is more effective at getting the rapt attention of an otherwise faceless and unresponsive agency than a prompt lawsuit and often the best way is to do it yourself. Yes, you can sue and do it yourself or if you want to impress your friends, Pro-se. (Which is latin for "for self")

    Some may balk and again reference more lawyer humor and say that only a fool has himself for a client. I quip that if you want a job right, you have to do it yourself. NOBODY is going to take your interests as seriously as you do.

    The "other side" may think that your case is so weak that you couldn't get a lawyer...then they'll realize "oh crap, he just didn't WANT a lawyer"

    Most lawyers just want to work out a quick settlement, get paid, and move on. You as an individual can cause lots of pain to a city, their lawyers, high ranking officials, and police force for your personal entertainment. Don't punch them in the nose, hit them where it hurts: in the wallet.

    You can make it personal and painful and go after them on principal, which is expensive for them.

    Ok, here are the hitman's rules for success for pro-se lawsuits. Granted, much of this is derived from the Flyingifr method, which is the aggressive form of taking on debt collectors, but the general principles are the same here, and even more important, since while a debt collector can at best take your money, a cop can take your money, property, and FREEDOM for years.

    1. Fight back!!!!!
    There is a general rule in chess that when you are attacked, attack back. The same applies here. Do not take any crap laying down. You need to get it set in your mind, just as if someone slapped your wife in the face with a 2x4, that this is a fight and you are in it to win it. Your battlefield is FEDERAL COURT. Your weapons are the US Constitution, 42 USC 1983, plus any applicable state laws.

    What to sue for? Money! Nothing hurts more than money. Sue everyone involved, the officer personally, the chief, the city, the PD, etc... and let a judge sort it out. You can add on injunctions and court orders for additional training or whatever suits your fancy, but apologies and re-training are cheap and not lasting. A cop pulling overtime for a year to pay off your judgment against him is likely to remember and not repeat the event, ever.

    2. Have Evidence!
    The thing that most pro-se litigants fail from other than not obeying the court's rules is a lack of evidence. If you don't have a voice recorder of some type, stop reading this, right now, go buy one, and familiarize yourself with your states laws on recording public conversations. I can tell you that in most places, recording a PUBLIC conversation is not a crime, but that isn't true for every place, such as Oregon. The recorder WILL be worth its weight in gold if you get some cowboy cop after you.

    I know some might think that the cops have body mic's and dashcam's, so you can just obtain their record of the event in court. Well, I hate to disappoint you, but some of our public servents are less than ethical and these records of significant events have been known to umm...disappear or become otherwise unavailable after lawsuits are filed. You need your own copies!

    General tips for recording are that you probably want to keep the fact that the conversation is being recorded hidden until after you get back to your house and you file suit. If you even think something is going to happen, you see flashing lights in your rear view mirror, switch it on or just have it running already.

    Me personally, I don't want ANYONE to know that the event is being recorded lest they try to illegally seize and destroy the evidence. It has happened, and it won't happen to me. I know lots of people want to spout out "Oh yeah, well this is all being recorded!" to one up the cop, but please resist the temptation. There will be plenty of time to do the happy dance later.

    3. Know the rules of the game.
    OK, you need to know the applicable laws and what rights/protections to trigger to be appropriately situated. Starting from the top down, you need to know the 4th amendment. Cold. You should have a basic understanding of the protections and how to trigger them as you will NOT have time to review this or get any prompting. You need to know the implication of asking "Am I free to go" vs "Am I being detained", RAS vs PC, a consensual encounter vs a detention vs an arrest, and so on. The essence of what I have read is that you need to seek to terminate the encounter, ASAP. If there is any ambiguity, the state will generally win out. If you are on a bus and the cops want to do a random search, get off and ask if you are free to go.

    Know your state laws! Obviously, you need to know your gun laws, where you can carry and such, but recording laws vary state to state, as well as local ordinances, and such.

    Are you in a "stop and identify" state?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_Identify_statutes

    I personally think the "flex your rights" series is fantastic and gives most layman a quick understanding of how to react to police encounters. http://www.flexyourrights.com

    I think the other video that is extremely worthwhile is the "never talk to the police" series, which I will slightly disagree with, since you HAVE TO talk to the police in some form to assert your rights, but after that, nothing more needs to be said or should be said.

    http://www.flexyourrights.org/2008_0...or_james_duane

    In this same line of thinking, as I referenced above, the thing that most pro-se litigants screw up on is not following the courts rules. Now, you will have ample time to review them and read up on them, and generally, most judges are forgiving, just don't make a habit of breaking the local rules or rules of Federal procedure. These local rules are on your courts website most of the time. If you have to file, print out a copy and follow them to the letter.

    Oh, that reminds me of where to sue: Federal court and only Federal court. No small claims. No state court. And for the love of god under no circumstanes are you to go to binding arbitration!

    IMHO in Federal, you get the best judges, quickest trial (generally about 9-18 months from start to finish) and the most basic set of rules to know: the Federal rules of civil procedure, standard across all 50 states, subject to local rule additions.

    Federal court costs $350 to file, but it is well worth it for a good judge and largely standard procedures.

    Wikipedia has a great law section to read up on basic things such as what a Federal question is (It is the argument that allows you to get into Federal court, which is essentially that you allege a violation of Federal law like the constitution or 42 USC 1983) and so on.

    Lastly, Federal court rocks out as most Federal courts have pro-se manuals/guides written by the local bar association. I have seen some with definitions, templates, sample forms, a glossery, flowcharts to trial, etc...

    http://www.constitution.org/pro-se/pro-se.htm
    http://www.proselitigant.net <<< (awesome site with example forms written by a real atty. Copy, paste, as necessary)
    http://www.txnd.uscourts.gov/publica...ttyhb_toc.html
    http://www.txwd.uscourts.gov/forms/d...rosemanual.pdf

    I can't list every good guide out there, but if you run across a good pro-se resource feel free to post it. Check http://www.uscourts.gov for your local court and see what they have for pro-se litigants.

    4. Understand thy enemy While cops may claim to be the law or in law enforcement, in truth, laws are enforced in court. That is where punishments are handed out and decisions are made.

    I am not going to argue ANYTHING with a cop on the street. Screw that. If I am in a non stop and identify state, and cop asks for my ID or driver's license, I am going to refuse, and if they claim that they'll arrest me for disorderly conduct, impeding an investigation, or whatever, I am going to place my hands behind my back and say arrest me or am I free to go. Why screw up an awesome lawsuit by muddling the issues and really becoming disorderly?

    You want your case to be as simple as "your honor, I was arrested for not breaking the law"

    then let the officer explain the rest.

    I am not trying to educate ANYONE in law enforcement on the law on the street either. That is done by the man in the black robe in court. To paraphrase a Special Forces officer I knew, "I've found that instruction is best recieved in the front leaning rest position." Similarly I believe officers are best instructed on the legalities in court.

    6. Know thy self Everyone thinks that having a lawyer is such a great advantage, although I will say that if you can get a lawyer to take the case on contingency, that might be the best thing to do. That said, you do have one huge advantage in a lawsuit: You work for free!

    One method of winning is to simply BURY the other side in paperwork, contest EVERYTHING, and make the lawsuit, long, difficult, and painful (ie. expensive).

    7. Basic mechanics
    Ok, here are the basics of any suit. Say you get hassled, roughed up, or arrested for OCing, you are pissed off, didn't do anything wrong, and want some restitution.

    Super.

    Fill out a Summons = Bring your hind parts to court

    and a Complaint = A general description of what happened and the allegations of wrongdoing. What laws where broken, who did what, and what you want in compensation for these actions. FYI, civil rights are EXPENSIVE to violate and usually run from the low 5 figures to easily the mid 6 and even 7-8 figures if someone dies or is badly injured (like paralyzed)

    I am party A. They are party B. They violated laws X, Y, and Z in this manner by doing actions 1, 2, and 3. The jurisdiction is proper because the actions happened here and the people reside here.

    On date whatever, I was minding my own business. Cowboy cop arrested me for no reason. He threatened to kill me if I blinked, took my gun and roughed me up.

    It was wrong, violated the 4th amendment, and I want them to drive up to my house with a boat filled with money as compensation.

    Sign it, mail it, and wait...if they don't respond within the amount

    You'll usually get a phone call 1-2 days after they recieve it, or they might wait until the last day and file a response.

    Lawyers usually take one of two approaches: They either go with the aww shucks, there must have been some misunderstanding...

    or

    I'm going to baffle you with BS and lawyerize you with legaleze! You don't stand a chance, because I'm a LAWYER! Muahahahaha.

    Your response should be in either case: "yeah, that's great, here's some paperwork to fill out"

    The next big thing in the case outside of some initial disclosures (ruel 26) is to go through discovery! Yay!

    Discovery is the really, expensive, painful, drawn out part of the case.

    This is where you are supposed to show each other your cards essentially, swap evidence, and explain your positions.

    What really happens? Everyone discloses only the most basic of info, objects to and tries to hold out on presenting any other evidence and runs up a huge legal bill.

    You write up your interrogatories, which are questions "Why did you stop citizen X on date Y?"

    Admissions: Admit that you had no reason to detain citizen X on date Y"

    and request for production: Produce the all transcripts of police radios for 5 minutes before and after the event.

    They will likely object to most of it, so you file a motion to compel to get a court order to produce this evidence. There will be a hearing to determine what is in and what is out.

    The file a motion to preclude to prevent any of the info they failed to produce from being entered at trial.

    Settlements

    Most cases settle well before trial. Settlements are good because once it is done, it is done. No appeals, reversals, remands, or whatever. Cash the check and you are set. Don't be in too much of a hurry to get to this point, though. Keep hitting them with paperwork until someone (usually an insurance adjuster...) sees the light and if not, you should be ready and willing to beat them down at trial.

    He who asks about settlements first loses is the general rule, so don't you say anything about it first.

    The funny thing about lawsuits is that people often have to spend lots of money before they get into the settling mood.

    Ok, that's it. Don't take abuse from anyone laying down. Fight back and make it hurt.

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    codename_47 wrote:
    ...More to follow on legal strategies...
    WHOA! What a monster post.

    I sure hope you're on to something here. I do think that Sheriff raises a good point though.

    One question though - has this strategy been tested in matters relating to firearm rights?

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    Well, it is true that the more defendants you go after the more lawyers you will likely have involved, but you also want to go for the people that can afford to pay and have deep pockets, which may include a higher organization like the city or PD.

    The number of pro-se litigants is tiny, and in any quasi criminal case, most lawyers are intent on just getting the charges dismissed and not going after the arresting party at the same time.

    I know in cases where you have police abuse, like in that early copwatch video where the cops were punching a suspect in the face as they were laying on top of and underneath him, the charges got dismissed pronto after the video came out.

    Additionally, in that one taser case in Utah, I think it was where the motorist was questioning where the speeding sign was and passively refusing to be arrested, that case settled for a quick 40k. Me personally, I think the taser action was a bit unnecessary, since the guy was walking backwards with his hands in the air, but whatever. I think what is important is the response to the lawsuit:

    http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/258276/17/

    A stubborn motorist who became an Internet celebrity after video of him being stunned with a Taser by a Utah Highway Patrolman appeared on YouTube will receive $40,000 as part of a lawsuit settlement with the state, the Utah attorney general's office said Monday.

    I think this bit is telling:

    Sykes said state attorneys offered to settle the lawsuit before ever officially responding to it, probably because of the video evidence.

    The key in all of these cases is the evidence and a lawsuit.


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    codename_47 wrote:
    Check http://www.uscourts.gov for your local court and see what they have for pro-se litigants.
    Guess I'm SOL...my local court has nothing for pro-se litigants that I can find...

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    Nolo Press [http://www.nolopress.com] used to have a good selection of do-it-yourself legal books, a couple of which I've used (not to sue pro se in Federal court, however). I'd give them a look.

    At the top menu, go to "Rights and Disputes" then "go to court or mediate" to get started. These folks are lawyers, so they're not but so enthusiastic about pro se litigation, but they're a worthwhile resource.

    regards,

    GR


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    BB62 wrote:
    codename_47 wrote:
    ...More to follow on legal strategies...
    WHOA! What a monster post.

    I sure hope you're on to something here. I do think that Sheriff raises a good point though.

    One question though - has this strategy been tested in matters relating to firearm rights?
    There is a Federal Civil Rights lawsuit against officers on a local PD in Pennsylvania. Go to the Penn threads and see.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    BB62 wrote:
    One question though - has this strategy been tested in matters relating to firearm rights?
    I don't know.

    While we object to cops contacting and/or detaining us for OC, its not theRKBA that is most directly at issue during an encounter. Its 4A rights.

    Infringement of 2A underlies the contact, but the stop itself is governed by 4A case law, defining what is left of our 4A rights.Rather, what little remaining the goverment is willing to recognize.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I have to wince when I hear "let the judge sort it out." Adopting the methods of one's adversaries may make for effective guerilla war tactics, but I don't automatically agree that more litigation equals more justice. I don't have a better answer - just an observation.

    -ljp

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    While I have no issue with a suit that isJUSTIFIED (whether it be against an Officer or other) I personally have little use for those who choose to sue frivolously, or in hopes of getting money that they are not entitled to.

    Attorneys are typicallyabout as dishonest as they come, and will be happy to lie for you, convince you to lie,or fabricate an untrue explanation as to why an event occured. I frankly don't know how they sleep at night, when their job is to lie for others (I guess money does talk, and they certainly listen!).

    If you have an honest justified complaint, then I would say you are certainly within your rights to file a suit. If however you are merely trying to cover your butt, or sue in hopes of getting something from the "deep pockets" of an Agency, I would caution this action.

    Lawsuits are really no big deal to a Dept, and it is justa part of the job. I have been sued 3 times (unsuccessfully) and really don't care if/when the next suit arises. The reason I say this is because ifan Officer isjustified in his actions, his Dept will back him 100%, and the Officer will not spend any of his own money in his defense. Dept's hire top notch attorneys, who are full time employees, and they are well versed in these cases.

    My Dept has a policy of filing countersuits against those who choose to file unjustified suits. When a person realizes that they may well lose their own money and or property, it has the effect of making them think twice about the validity of their own suit.

    If you think you have nothing to lose by sueing aDept.it may be time to think again.
    If you have to fight, do not fear death. We will all die one day, so fight skillfully and bravely! And if it is to be that you die, then at least go to God proudly. Meet him as the proud warrior that you are, and not as a sniveling coward. Nobody lives forever.

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    Well said Sheriff. The law is an ass that attorneys ride to work. It's just a real complicated 'thing', much more complicated than a gun but still merely hoplein, not better or worse than the operator.

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    Guess I'm SOL...my local court has nothing for pro-se litigants that I can find.

    No fear, plenty of other courts that have pro-se manuals.

    There is a Federal Civil Rights lawsuit against officers on a local PD in Pennsylvania.


    Excellent template for how to do it. Copy, paste, change the names and circumstances to fit, and you are on your way.

    Here's a link: http://paopencarry.org/complaint.pdf

    These folks are lawyers, so they're not but so enthusiastic about pro se litigation, but they're a worthwhile resource.

    Most lawyers aren't

    Adopting the methods of one's adversaries may make for effective guerilla war tactics, but I don't automatically agree that more litigation equals more justice.

    In this case, more litigation is the ONLY source of justice.

    Johnnylaw,
    I'm right there with you as far as frivilous lawsuits as well as facing trumpted up charges. Keep the BS out. I don't think all lawyers are THAT bad , although I do question if they are as useful as they think they are. Most of them are simply in it for the easy money, and justice or fairness has nothing to do with it.

    Given the reported actions and incidents of LEO's hassling OCer's, it shouldn't be hard at all to have a slamming case.

    I've only heard of one "countersuit" type action, and that was on Judge Judy for a spoiled brat who filed a false complaint against a LEO, so take it for what its worth. Methinks if more LEO's filed countersuits against people who filed official complaints, they'd find themselves in a pickle mighty fast when the underlying reasons for the complaint are examined. I'm not even sure on what grounds you could counter sue for.

    I think that the insurance companies for these PD's generally have a say in these matters are generally not inclined for long, extensive, expensive trials, but if they have lots of money to burn, I have a gas can and matches

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    codename_47 wrote:
    Adopting the methods of one's adversaries may make for effective guerilla war tactics, but I don't automatically agree that more litigation equals more justice.

    In this case, more litigation is the ONLY source of justice.
    I merely meant that indiscriminately suing any and all persons obliquely connected with "the system" is probably not worthwhile. Certainly if specific LE personnel violated specific laws/rights/procedures/etc, then there may well be a non-frivolous cause of action against these principal(s). That said, the temptation to lawyers is to go after the money, which means suing the department/municipality as a whole as opposed to the bad actors themselves. Even then, getting a judgment and collecting any award are two different matters altogether.

    As for "justice," I really don't even know what that means. You can seldom undo a wrong and restore the status quo ante. As the saying goes, money isn't the source of all evil, the love of it is, andgetting a court to sign off on it doesn't sanctify blood money. JMO.

    -ljp

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    Johnny Law wrote:
    SNIP Attorneys are typicallyabout as dishonest as they come, and will be happy to lie for you, convince you to lie,or fabricate an untrue explanation as to why an event occured. I frankly don't know how they sleep at night, when their job is to lie for others (I guess money does talk, and they certainly listen!).
    You understand you justmaligned every judge andprosecutor in the country?

    And thus the entire system you use to put away offenders?

    From the Forum Rules:

    5) While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups og people based upon race, religion, sex, or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer). (red emphasis added).


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Johnny Law wrote:
    SNIP Attorneys are typicallyabout as dishonest as they come, and will be happy to lie for you, convince you to lie,or fabricate an untrue explanation as to why an event occured. I frankly don't know how they sleep at night, when their job is to lie for others (I guess money does talk, and they certainly listen!).
    You understand you justmaligned every judge andprosecutor in the country?

    And thus the entire system you use to put away offenders?

    From the Forum Rules:

    5) While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups og people based upon race, religion, sex, or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer). (red emphasis added).

    I have a feeling that we all know the intention of my above post, but I will clarify.

    DEFENSE attorneys TYPICALLY (meaning very often, but not always). Btw, a Judge may have once been an attorney (usually a prosecutor), but is not considered one under the title of Judge.

    I have had a lot of experience in courtrooms, and honestly I have never seen a DEFENSE attorney that impressed me in the least bit. Yes I have even seen many "high powered" ones in action, and frankly thearguments/lies they come up with for their client's are pathetic, and leave me wondering if they even finished grade school. I will oftenglance at the Judge after a defense attorney says something idiotic, just to see if he shows a reaction similar to what I am thinking. Iknow many would be surprised by the lack of intelligent statements that these attorneys make.

    As for the issue of countersuits, I have seen many happenthat wereinitiated by a Dept, not the individual Officer. In fact one suit that was filed against me/my Dept was answered by a Dept countersuit. The Person quickly agreed to drop their initial suit when they realized that they would likely lose, and would then face a loss of money or property.

    Dept's are growing tired of people trying to tap their pockets, and are now beginning to take action against it. This is a growing trend, and we will be seeing a lot more of it.
    If you have to fight, do not fear death. We will all die one day, so fight skillfully and bravely! And if it is to be that you die, then at least go to God proudly. Meet him as the proud warrior that you are, and not as a sniveling coward. Nobody lives forever.

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    all bow to johnny law.

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    johnnyb wrote:
    all bow to johnny law.

    go F yourself pig.

    you ARE against us.

    your condensending authority complex is why people hate you, and god forbid the SHTF you WILL be the first group of people targeted, and you will deserve it.
    You are rude and disrepectful to others.

    One day youmay come to realize that your attitude is the cause of most of the grief in your life. Till then you will continue to blame others for all the bad things that happen to you. I have never wronged you, but you choose to blame me/my professionfor your troubles. I meetMANY people who respect and like me, and some that hate and fear me (I'm usually arresting the latter).

    Btw johnnyb, don't threaten me with your internet bs, asI am not intimidated by you or any other mouthy little *******.The S has hit heF many times, and thereis more than oneperson 6 feet underground who targeted me.
    If you have to fight, do not fear death. We will all die one day, so fight skillfully and bravely! And if it is to be that you die, then at least go to God proudly. Meet him as the proud warrior that you are, and not as a sniveling coward. Nobody lives forever.

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    Johnny Law wrote:
    johnnyb wrote:
    all bow to johnny law.

    go F yourself pig.

    you ARE against us.

    your condensending authority complex is why people hate you, and god forbid the SHTF you WILL be the first group of people targeted, and you will deserve it.
    You are rude and disrepectful to others.

    One day youmay come to realize that your attitude is the cause of most of the grief in your life. Till then you will continue to blame others for all the bad things that happen to you. I have never wronged you, but you choose to blame me/my professionfor your troubles. I meetMANY people who respect and like me, and some that hate and fear me (I'm usually arresting the latter).

    Btw johnnyb, don't threaten me with your internet bs, asI am not imtimidated by you or any other mouthy little *******.The S has hit heF many times, and thereis more than oneperson 6 feet underground who targeted me.
    WOW
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  18. #18
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    Johnny Law wrote:
    johnnyb wrote:
    all bow to johnny law.

    go F yourself pig.

    you ARE against us.

    your condensending authority complex is why people hate you, and god forbid the SHTF you WILL be the first group of people targeted, and you will deserve it.
    You are rude and disrepectful to others.

    One day youmay come to realize that your attitude is the cause of most of the grief in your life. Till then you will continue to blame others for all the bad things that happen to you. I have never wronged you, but you choose to blame me/my professionfor your troubles. I meetMANY people who respect and like me, and some that hate and fear me (I'm usually arresting the latter).

    Btw johnnyb, don't threaten me with your internet bs, asI am not imtimidated by you or any other mouthy little *******.The S has hit heF many times, and thereis more than oneperson 6 feet underground who targeted me.
    Hmmm... Well, I only see the first line above, and I notice that johnnyb hasn't modified his post, as I saw it right after he posted it. Anybody else notice that? Or was that a PM, Johnny Law? Just want to straighten things out...

  19. #19
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    Codename_47. You have an interisting post. The fact that the AG wanted to settle for 40k admits guilt by the state. If ever in that situation I wouldn't take the money. Part of the problem is that they can always throw money when they are in the wrong. It would be more helpful for individual rights if someone would follow it through in court.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Johnny Law's Avatar
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    xd.40 wrote:
    Hmmm... Well, I only see the first line above, and I notice that johnnyb hasn't modified his post, as I saw it right after he posted it. Anybody else notice that? Or was that a PM, Johnny Law? Just want to straighten things out...
    It was clipped from another johnnyb post regarding traffic violations (also under general discussion category). It was in answer to one of my posts, which by the way, was was not rude.
    If you have to fight, do not fear death. We will all die one day, so fight skillfully and bravely! And if it is to be that you die, then at least go to God proudly. Meet him as the proud warrior that you are, and not as a sniveling coward. Nobody lives forever.

  21. #21
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    Oh, ok. I would mention that because it appeared that you were putting words into their mouth.

  22. #22
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    Johnny Law wrote:
    johnnyb wrote:
    all bow to johnny law.

    go F yourself pig.

    you ARE against us.

    your condensending authority complex is why people hate you, and god forbid the SHTF you WILL be the first group of people targeted, and you will deserve it.
    You are rude and disrepectful to others.

    One day youmay come to realize that your attitude is the cause of most of the grief in your life. Till then you will continue to blame others for all the bad things that happen to you. I have never wronged you, but you choose to blame me/my professionfor your troubles. I meetMANY people who respect and like me, and some that hate and fear me (I'm usually arresting the latter).

    Btw johnnyb, don't threaten me with your internet bs, asI am not intimidated by you or any other mouthy little *******.The S has hit heF many times, and thereis more than oneperson 6 feet underground who targeted me.
    weeeee weeeeeeeeee weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

    i have no grief in my life. i haven't had to deal with anyone like you in your profession lately

    you're a piece of @#$% and deserve zero respect from anyone.

    i'm not threatening you, i'm merely stating the fact, that if @#$% ever goes down you will be targeted by people. first because you deserve it, second because you're the most visable and active arm of government, and third because you'll be out "fighting" the rest of us.

    read carefully, GO @#$% YOURSELF.

    all bow to johnny law.

    ps: i did say what he quoted its in a different thread.

    pps: johnny law why are you here? do you believe in open carry? do you believe in gun rights? do you believe in the bill of rights? (its obvious you do not believe in the bill of rights if you're a LEO. as its part of your job to trample it)

  23. #23
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    I'm not a lawyer so I have a question. Can you takeany documentation of the laws, court casesetc... into the DA, policeand other pertinent organizationsand demand they respect and protect your rights? Kind of a silly question I know and it would probably be to easy. Answer, anyone?

  24. #24
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    johnnyb wrote:
    Johnny Law wrote:
    johnnyb wrote:
    all bow to johnny law.

    go F yourself pig.

    you ARE against us.

    your condensending authority complex is why people hate you, and god forbid the SHTF you WILL be the first group of people targeted, and you will deserve it.
    You are rude and disrepectful to others.

    One day youmay come to realize that your attitude is the cause of most of the grief in your life. Till then you will continue to blame others for all the bad things that happen to you. I have never wronged you, but you choose to blame me/my professionfor your troubles. I meetMANY people who respect and like me, and some that hate and fear me (I'm usually arresting the latter).

    Btw johnnyb, don't threaten me with your internet bs, asI am not intimidated by you or any other mouthy little *******.The S has hit heF many times, and thereis more than oneperson 6 feet underground who targeted me.
    weeeee weeeeeeeeee weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

    i have no grief in my life. i haven't had to deal with anyone like you in your profession.

    you're a piece of @#$% and deserve zero respect from anyone.

    i'm not threatening you, i'm merely stating the fact, that if @#$% ever goes down you will be targeted by people. first because you deserve it, second because you're the most visable and active arm of government, and third because you'll be out "fighting" the rest of us.

    read carefully, GO @#$% YOURSELF.

    all bow to johnny law.

    ps: i did say what he quoted its in a different thread.
    OT. But I have always found a tall glass of OJ will make me relax. I'd try it. Really it works!

  25. #25
    Regular Member Johnny Law's Avatar
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    johnnyb wrote:
    Johnny Law wrote:
    johnnyb wrote:
    all bow to johnny law.

    go F yourself pig.

    you ARE against us.

    your condensending authority complex is why people hate you, and god forbid the SHTF you WILL be the first group of people targeted, and you will deserve it.
    You are rude and disrepectful to others.

    One day youmay come to realize that your attitude is the cause of most of the grief in your life. Till then you will continue to blame others for all the bad things that happen to you. I have never wronged you, but you choose to blame me/my professionfor your troubles. I meetMANY people who respect and like me, and some that hate and fear me (I'm usually arresting the latter).

    Btw johnnyb, don't threaten me with your internet bs, asI am not intimidated by you or any other mouthy little *******.The S has hit heF many times, and thereis more than oneperson 6 feet underground who targeted me.
    weeeee weeeeeeeeee weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

    i have no grief in my life. i haven't had to deal with anyone like you in your profession.

    you're a piece of @#$% and deserve zero respect from anyone.

    i'm not threatening you, i'm merely stating the fact, that if @#$% ever goes down you will be targeted by people. first because you deserve it, second because you're the most visable and active arm of government, and third because you'll be out "fighting" the rest of us.

    read carefully, GO @#$% YOURSELF.

    all bow to johnny law.

    ps: i did say what he quoted its in a different thread.

    pps: johnny law why are you here? do you believe in open carry? do you believe in gun rights? do you believe in the bill of rights? (its obvious you do not believe in the bill of rights if you're a LEO. as its part of your job to trample it)
    Bring it!
    If you have to fight, do not fear death. We will all die one day, so fight skillfully and bravely! And if it is to be that you die, then at least go to God proudly. Meet him as the proud warrior that you are, and not as a sniveling coward. Nobody lives forever.

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