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Thread: Auburn Hills Update

  1. #1
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Contacted by the police chief, and my response. Will keep you posted . . .



    ----- Original Message ----
    From: Dan **** <***@yahoo.com>
    To: "Olko, Doreen" <dolko@auburnhills.org>
    Cc: "Tanghe, Tom" <ttanghe@auburnhills.org>; "Auger, Peter" <pauger@auburnhills.org>; jbacon@secrestwardle.com
    Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 9:40:51 AM
    Subject: Re: Your Request

    Dear Chief Olko,



    I appreciate your prompt response and interest in reviewing the ordinance for it's enforceability, especially in light of the body of state law (including preemption) and state court rulings regarding gun control laws enacted byunits of government below the state level.



    I don't think the ordinance is completely unenforceable, just part of it may be. I'm just a layman, but my understanding is thatbanning hunting without a permit within city limitsis permissible for a city to do. However, I think the assumption spelled out in the ordinance that anyone carrying a firearm (except unloadedrifle/shotgun/pistol)is deemed to be huntingmay be problematic. While I do believe there maybereasonable suspicion or probable cause to believe someone lurking behind treescarrying a rifle or shotgunin a ready-to-shoot manner is hunting, and should be detained by police to investigate possible violation of this ordinance, a citizen lawfully openly carrying a handgun in a holster whilst conducting their business or personal life, in or travelling through Auburn Hills, is nearlycertainly not hunting. Having interacted with some of your officers (pleasantly, I should add) including yourself (very briefly at a city function), I am confident in the ability,intelligence, and leadershipof the Auburn Hills police force to enforce a ban on hunting without the burdenof ablanket assumptionimposed by the questionably problematic part of the ordinance.



    I don't know if they were forwarded to you as well, so I am attaching a couple of documents that may be useful. Also, I have been told, contacting the state's Attorney General's office, as an additional resource,has been helpful to municipalities in resolving such questions.



    I like to be more than an email personality, so if I can, I'lldrop by and say "hi". Help you put a face to the name, so to speak.



    Respectfully,

    Dan ****

    248-808-4894





    ----- Original Message ----
    From: "Olko, Doreen" <dolko@auburnhills.org>
    To: ***@yahoo.com
    Cc: "Tanghe, Tom" <ttanghe@auburnhills.org>; "Auger, Peter" <pauger@auburnhills.org>; jbacon@secrestwardle.com
    Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 2:36:54 PM
    Subject: Your Request

    Dear Mr. M***,



    Mr. Auger has forwarded your request regarding the open carry of handguns in the City to me. I will be taking a look at the ordinance and consulting with Mr. Auger and the City Attorney in light of your information. We will be back in touch with you once we have had an opportunity to do some research.



    Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.



    Doreen E. Olko

    Chief of Police

    Auburn Hills Police Department

    1899 North Squirrel Road

    Auburn Hills, Michigan 48326

    248.364.6855

    dolko@auburnhills.org
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  2. #2
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    I met briefly with Chief Olko to say "hi" and ask about progress on her review of the ordinance in question (see "Auburn Hills Inquiry").

    She is a very pleasant person. She informed me that the review is near completion. She did not ask me "whydo you feel the need to carry". Shedid not editorialize about open carry. She was interested in how LEOs might interact with a citizen who is open carrying, and she was open to my offer to share links to this website.

    I emailed her the link to this site, and some attachments which extract key information addressing her curiousity about LEO/citizen interaction.

    As always, will keep you posted.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  3. #3
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    DanM wrote:
    I met briefly with Chief Olko to say "hi" and ask about progress on her review of the ordinance in question (see "Auburn Hills Inquiry").

    She is a very pleasant person. She informed me that the review is near completion. She did not ask me "whydo you feel the need to carry". Shedid not editorialize about open carry. She was interested in how LEOs might interact with a citizen who is open carrying, and she was open to my offer to share links to this website.

    I emailed her the link to this site, and some attachments which extract key information addressing her curiousity about LEO/citizen interaction.

    As always, will keep you posted.
    Well done Dan.

  4. #4
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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    DanM wrote:
    I met briefly with Chief Olko to say "hi" and ask about progress on her review of the ordinance in question (see "Auburn Hills Inquiry").

    She is a very pleasant person. She informed me that the review is near completion. She did not ask me "whydo you feel the need to carry". Shedid not editorialize about open carry. She was interested in how LEOs might interact with a citizen who is open carrying, and she was open to my offer to share links to this website.

    I emailed her the link to this site, and some attachments which extract key information addressing her curiousity about LEO/citizen interaction.

    As always, will keep you posted.
    Well done Dan.
    Yes, well done.

  5. #5
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    WIN for OC! I contacted Auburn Hills Parks and Recreation a little while agoabout their park signs violating state preemption regarding firearms. The city acknowledges what was pointed out and reports changing the signs. The reported change may not be perfect, butthe acknowledgement that there wasa preemption violation and change to get to compliance are the important accomplishments.

    Email trail:

    ----------------------------------

    From: "Marzolf, Brian" <bmarzolf@auburnhills.org>
    To:<xxx@yahoo.com>
    Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 8:24:17 AM
    Subject: park signage


    Dan,
    Thanks for pointing that out - we've changed the park signs to read “except as otherwise authorized by law” in regard toweapons.
    Brian

    Brian Marzolf
    Recreation Director
    City of Auburn Hills

    ------------------------------------

    From: Dan Mxxx <xxx@yahoo.com>
    To: bmarzolf@auburnhills.org
    Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 4:19:01 PM
    Subject: Park signage in contravention of MCL 123.1102

    Dear Mr. Marzolf:

    The sign at River Woods Park indicatesweapons are prohibited.Under the 1990 state preemption law with regard to firearms regulations, this prohibition isunenforceablewith regard to firearm possession and ismisleading to the people of Auburn Hills and other citizens. I am requesting you amend this sign and any otheroffending signage atpublic parks in Auburn Hills within a reasonable time. Failure to amend such offending public park signscould be considered an act of malfeasance as the signswillfully misinform the public about what is and is not legally allowed in the city ofAuburn Hills.

    Thank You,

    Dan Mxxx
    Auburn Hills
    248-xxx-xxxx

    [Lengthy quotationfrom MCL regarding preemption deleted.]
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  6. #6
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    Well done Dan and a thank you to MrMarzolf.

  7. #7
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    DanM wrote:
    WIN for OC! I contacted Auburn Hills Parks and Recreation a little while agoabout their park signs violating state preemption regarding firearms. The city acknowledges what was pointed out and reports changing the signs. The reported change may not be perfect, butthe acknowledgement that there wasa preemption violation and change to get to compliance are the important accomplishments.

    Email trail:

    ----------------------------------

    From: "Marzolf, Brian" <bmarzolf@auburnhills.org>
    To:<xxx@yahoo.com>
    Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 8:24:17 AM
    Subject: park signage


    Dan,
    Thanks for pointing that out - we've changed the park signs to read “except as otherwise authorized by law” in regard toweapons.
    Brian

    Brian Marzolf
    Recreation Director
    City of Auburn Hills

    ------------------------------------

    From: Dan Mxxx <xxx@yahoo.com>
    To: bmarzolf@auburnhills.org
    Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 4:19:01 PM
    Subject: Park signage in contravention of MCL 123.1102

    Dear Mr. Marzolf:

    The sign at River Woods Park indicatesweapons are prohibited.Under the 1990 state preemption law with regard to firearms regulations, this prohibition isunenforceablewith regard to firearm possession and ismisleading to the people of Auburn Hills and other citizens. I am requesting you amend this sign and any otheroffending signage atpublic parks in Auburn Hills within a reasonable time. Failure to amend such offending public park signscould be considered an act of malfeasance as the signswillfully misinform the public about what is and is not legally allowed in the city ofAuburn Hills.

    Thank You,

    Dan Mxxx
    Auburn Hills
    248-xxx-xxxx

    [Lengthy quotationfrom MCL regarding preemption deleted.]
    Great work Dan, it's a start. Now if they change the ordinance that's a bonus.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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