Got felony stoped today and i lost my gun to the cops....

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Alright i am now going to step in to this convo to set the record straight. I know it was fired because i cleaned it the day before and i have swabs of the residue caused by firing the weapon locked in a safe.

So you can assume all you want but i am not an expert on firearms but i am a vet who spent 8 years in and i know how to clean a weapon and i KNOW my own gun.

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maclean wrote:

Bear 45/70 wrote:

Please explain, in your infinite wisdom, why the weapon was fired then? Your defense of the officers in this case reeks of the same old "cops defend other cops regardless of what they have done." It's the reason there needs to be oversight by an outsidegroup when investigating cops and the stunts they pull.

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Please explain, in your infinite wisdom, how you know the weapon was fired?

So far we have - on any side of this issue at all - the assertion of a person or personson the internet. Nobody, save perhaps at this pointthe OP's attorney, has seen any case reports or recordings.

I realize that you have appointed yourself as the arbiter of what is true and good on this board Mr. Bear, but that does not make it so - and I know I am not the only one who has pointed that out to you.

I am defending nobody, but I will ask questions when there appear to be holes.

If you don't like it, you are cordially invited to quit reading my posts.

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Jarhead say the weapon was clean when the cops stole his gun and Marines can tell a dirty weapon from a clean weapon. When returned to him it had been fired. Marines can also tell this. Your unending defense of cops shows that the blue line still exists to the detriment of society and you are part of the problem. If I don't like what you spout as fact when it is your opinion only, I will gladly and forever step on your toes.

So why haven't you or any other cops responded to sv_libertarians thread, An open letter to the LEO's reading/lurking here...?

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/13609.html

Yours and otherslack of response speaks volumes about law enforcement's attitude about defending other cops regardless of thereality of things,as a whole.

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This isn't some internet commando that none of us have ever seen......many of us have met jarhead in person and talk to him face-to-face regularly......I have no reason to doubt that his story is not 100% factual. It's not like this person joined the forum and on his first post stated this story.......so give the paranoid act a rest, will you?

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sv_libertarian wrote:

I think he is holding out on some details pending another consultation with his attorney, Randy Loun.

I wouldn't want to spread a lot of details had this happened to me.

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Just to help put the "shots fired" issue to rest, many Agencies are now routinely firing (any and all) weapons which are in their posession (for ANY reason) and then sending the casing/bullet to the state for analysis. They are building a database that may prove useful in the future. Many newer weapons are already cataloged, as the manufacturers will send in a spent round/slug.

Before any flaming starts, lets look at a scenario. Your weapon gets stolen (like M1gunr's). If it is in the database, and is used in a crime (where a casing or slug is recovered), it can be traced back, and if there was a suspect in the theftthere is a good lead in the case. I know of no law stating that a weapon may not be fired while in posession of a PD.

Secondly, before I start, I do not work for Puyallup, however I have read the report due to the data sharing capabilities between Agencies. There are many pertinent details that Jarhead has omitted, and please don't ask me to share as I respect his privacy. If/when he wants others to know, he will tell them. In the meantime while he is consulting an attorney he will probably not want to disclose any more details, and we all need to respect that.

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Johnny Law wrote:

sv_libertarian wrote:

I think he is holding out on some details pending another consultation with his attorney, Randy Loun.

I wouldn't want to spread a lot of details had this happened to me.

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Just to help put the "shots fired" issue to rest, many Agencies are now routinely firing (any and all) weapons which are in their posession (for ANY reason) and then sending the casing/bullet to the state for analysis. They are building a database that may prove useful in the future. Many newer weapons are already cataloged, as the manufacturers will send in a spent round/slug.

Before any flaming starts, lets look at a scenario. Your weapon gets stolen (like M1gunr's). If it is in the database, and is used in a crime (where a casing or slug is recovered), it can be traced back, and if there was a suspect in the theftthere is a good lead in the case. I know of no law stating that a weapon may not be fired while in posession of a PD.

Secondly, before I start, I do not work for Puyallup, however I have read the report due to the data sharing capabilities between Agencies. There are many pertinent details that Jarhead has omitted, and please don't ask me to share as I respect his privacy. If/when he wants others to know, he will tell them. In the meantime while he is consulting an attorney he will probably not want to disclose any more details, and we all need to respect that.

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Yeah, no cop ever falsified a report after he screwed the pooch. I know jarhead but I also know most cops are no better than they are forced to be.

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

Yours and otherslack of response speaks volumes about law enforcement's attitude about defending other cops regardless of thereality of things,as a whole.

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Or, as has been mentioned, it says we read the report.

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johnnyb wrote:

i love my buellie

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Your on HMT!

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Johnny Law wrote:

They are building a database that may prove useful in the future. Many newer weapons are already cataloged, as the manufacturers will send in a spent round/slug.

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Mr. Law, I'd guess you're LEO or something, from what I can read on your posts on this thread, but you are mistaken or misinformed about what you have stated here.

MA is the only state in the union, where the spent shell included from the factory with the newfirearm is returned, along with info on the purchaser of said firearm, to the state police agency for "cataloging."

And, as of a couple months ago, this system has still NEVER been used to solve a single crime, in it's almost 10 year existance. Although, it has however, cost the taxpayers in MA several million dollars to set up and maintain. (But John Kerry thinks it still saves lives, and needs to be "expanded," whatever that means.)

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G20-IWB24/7 wrote:

Johnny Law wrote:

They are building a database that may prove useful in the future. Many newer weapons are already cataloged, as the manufacturers will send in a spent round/slug.

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Mr. Law, I'd guess you're LEO or something, from what I can read on your posts on this thread, but you are mistaken or misinformed about what you have stated here.

MA is the only state in the union, where the spent shell included from the factory with the newfirearm is returned, along with info on the purchaser of said firearm, to the state police agency for "cataloging."

And, as of a couple months ago, this system has still NEVER been used to solve a single crime, in it's almost 10 year existance. Although, it has however, cost the taxpayers in MA several million dollars to set up and maintain. (But John Kerry thinks it still saves lives, and needs to be "expanded," whatever that means.)

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The Washington State Patrol crime lab has been doing this for a while, Mr. Law is correct.

It isn't a mandate by law like in MA, it is done with weapons recovered during the investigation of crimes.


You are correct about its utility.

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however I have read the report due to the data sharing capabilities between Agencies.

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I find this incredulous, you took the time to chase down this particular report out of how many? I am sure you didn't read each and every report out of PPD for the last month, year or whatever.

If I were to do something like that in healthcare, reading someone's chart just because I am curious I would be looking for another job.

Just because you are "in the loop" doesn't give you carte blanche to read what ever you want, does it? Shouldn't you be held to the same, if not higher standard as a citizen. If you were that interested in what happened, you could have asked jarhead, or you could have filed a FOIA just like any one of us "commoners" would have to do.



:cuss::cuss::cuss:

bob

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maclean wrote:

The Washington State Patrol crime lab has been doing this for a while, Mr. Law is correct.

It isn't a mandate by law like in MA, it is done with weapons recovered during the investigation of crimes.


You are correct about its utility.

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So what crime did Jarhead commit? Or was accused of committing?

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BobR wrote:

Just because you are "in the loop" doesn't give you carte blanche to read what ever you want, does it? Shouldn't you be held to the same, if not higher standard as a citizen. If you were that interested in what happened, you could have asked jarhead, or you could have filed a FOIA just like any one of us "commoners" would have to do.



:cuss::cuss::cuss:

bob

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Bob, the law allows for us to read other agencies reports without an FOIA request, primarily to share criminal intelligence.

There is no privacy breach involved in such an activity.


Healthcare is covered by other laws, many of which I'm sure you know a lot more than I do about.

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sv_libertarian wrote:

maclean wrote:

The Washington State Patrol crime lab has been doing this for a while, Mr. Law is correct.

It isn't a mandate by law like in MA, it is done with weapons recovered during the investigation of crimes.


You are correct about its utility.

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So what crime did Jarhead commit? Or was accused of committing?

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That's a question you should direct to him, no?

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primarily to share criminal intelligence.

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I can see that, in some cases. I don't see it here. Jarhead was not arrested, isn't a gang member as far as I know, and pretty much was going about his business in a lawful manner.

Not a lot of intelligence there.

You guys are reading the report because you can, and it involves a board member. If you had not heard of it, you would have never tried to read it, for intelligence or not.

I feel is was inappropiate for you, or any other board member not directly involved in the incident to take it upon themselves to read the report out of idle curiosity.

So you can paint it with any brush you want, blue or not, it wasn't right and I would hope you know it.



bob

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maclean wrote:

That's a question you should direct to him, no?

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Well you're the one with all the inside info I thought you might know. From what I've been told he was detained, and released without charges. His gun was kept. That stinks to high heaven, especially when you factor in that no reciept was given. I don't see that point being argued, which suggests to me that PPD screwed the pooch on this one and failed to issue a reciept where one was needed. Plus I am failing to see what legal authority they had to seize his weapon when no charges were filed, nor any citations issued. Maybe I'm missing something here but the state constitution seems to make a couple of things plain...


SECTION 3 PERSONAL RIGHTS. No person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.

Please tell me the due process of law that allows for the seizure of a person's property when no charges are being filed, and the person is not under arrest.

It's ok to say PPD screwed up. But blindly defending their actions and giving vague hints and suggestions does not help your cause. Marc has been up front with us and has given a full story, which is more than I'm getting from the "other side" and such behavior only goes to strain public relations.

It is being broadly hinted that Marc did something. Was he an ass with the cops? Did he make threats? Or is PPD trying to cover their butts and say he did? The plain and simple fact that NO CHARGES WERE FILED nor ANY CITATIONS ISSUED tells me that NO CRIME WAS COMMITTED. With that strange thought in mind, WHAT RIGHT did PPD have to seize his personal property and not issue a receipt? After that seizure what right did they have to fire it and take ballistic samples of it? WHAT RIGHT? WHAT LAW? Somebody tell me 'cuz I can't find anything except an apparent abuse of power by a couple of officers.

I'm not going to tar all officers with the same brush, but it seems there may be some funny business in a small corner of PPD and it needs to be brought to light. Mistakes happen. People are after all only human. Cops are held to a higher standard, and sometimes the fall further than other folks, but they are still human.

There is no shame in suggesting something went wrong with the stop instead of blaming the vicitm. I would really appreciate an answer to the question of what legal right did they have to seize his weapon, and what allows them to do so without issuing a receipt for personal property?

The fact that this recurring question isn't answered is making me very suspicious and is not helping my normally generous outlook on things.

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I'm a bit off my feed today, dont' mind me. I was a lot grumpier than I needed to be in my last reply, and probably rude to boot. Obviously Maclean and JL looked at some info that will require a FOIA to get, and are trying to share it with us as best they can, which is appreciated.

It just makes things look funnier. At any rate long stressful work week and I'm taking it out on a long and stressful thread. The courts will decide this one.

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maclean wrote:

The Washington State Patrol crime lab has been doing this for a while, Mr. Law is correct.

It isn't a mandate by law like in MA, it is done with weapons recovered during the investigation of crimes.


You are correct about its utility.

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Exactly. I'll agree that it is done in WA state with a gun recovered from a crime scene or involved in a specificcriminalinvestigation, butMr. Lawstated that manufacturers are sending these pieces of evidence in automatically, to be catalogued in adatabase for future use.This isNOT the truth in WA state, and that's all I was pointing out. No crime=no firingpin fingerprinting necessary.

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sv_libertarian wrote:

After that seizure what right did they have to fire it and take ballistic samples of it? WHAT RIGHT? WHAT LAW?

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First let me say this situation stinks. From the information presented, I think the cops were wrong and violated civil rights.

but as for firing the gun and taking ballistic samples... is there a law that says they can't? isn't everything legal unless there is a law that states that it is a crime?

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

maclean wrote:

Very interesting...

Two officers contacted you out of the blue? You have no idea what they were investigating? Was there a reported crime? Were you the suspect in a reported crime?

I can certainly understand your desire to keep details to a minimum given your pursuits, but there are so many questions that come to mind.

Two officers for a contact comes to mind, as I know they run single officer cars.

Did they take your firearm or ask you to surrender it for some reason? If they gave it back the next day, it would seem more likely a surrender. I know you would NEVER get a gun out of evidence that fast where I work for any other reason.

If the officers acted inappropriately, I wish you luck - but without knowing a LOT more of the details, I'm taking a wait and see.

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Right he voluntarily surrendered his firearm after 2 hours cuffed in the back seat of a cop car. Sounds More like the cops were scared he would use it on them aftertha violated his Constitutional rights and a number of laws. What are you thinking? Or are you thinking at all?

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Sounds like Maclean would make a good "expert" witness for the defense...or maybe just a "brother in blue." Sounds like both sides need to close ranks, shut up and let the judicial system handle this one as opposed to trying to solve things through the executive side most of us are or have been part of.Until there's a ******* ruling, in court, on this one the problem could just repeat itself. Guys (or gals)that carry guns by nature are prone to wanting to solve problems quickly and effectively. What vet/cop here hasn't wanted to break/bend the laws they swore to uphold because it would be so much more effective and be the right thing in that situation? That's exactly what gun grabbing cops did to Jarhead, wrongly so.

What is the point of a three party system is we don't allow it to work? Patience my friends... When the executive branch (cops/military) oversteps the bounds and authority bestowed them by the legislature, the judiciary (or legislature) is supposed toreign them in. Maybe I'm an idealist,but that system is the only reason domesticarmedconflict has not been an issue since 1865...We've gotta look at the big picture here.

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ijusam wrote:

sv_libertarian wrote: 

  After that seizure what right did they have to fire it and take ballistic samples of it?  WHAT RIGHT?  WHAT LAW?

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First let me say this situation stinks. From the information presented, I think the cops were wrong and violated civil rights.

 but as for firing the gun and taking ballistic samples... is there a law that says they can't? isn't everything legal unless there is a law that states that it is a crime?

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Yeah, there's a law... The crime is called theft.