sv_libertarian
State Researcher
imported post
First and foremost I want to say this IS NOT a LEO bashing thread and if it turns into one I will ask that it be deleted.
We all know LEO's read this board. Some post openly, some don't. That is fine, there are plenty of of other people who do that too. I have met several LEO's who read this board and I have the utmost respect for them and the job they do. It's one I wouldn't want to do myself.
I am convinced nearly all cops are decent folks. There is of course the occasional bad apple, but that will happen with any group. Ladies and gentlemen of law enforcement I have to wonder why we are still having problems with OC?
Not only has it been clearly established as legal in this state, many agencies have already trained their officers on the subject. I think nearly every LEO in this state knows OC is legal.
This is not about "us versus them" or common citizens trying to power trip. It's an exercise of a right. Yet we as a community keep running into walls of ignorance, or internal cultures that disregard the law and impose individual viewpoints and opinions where none should be applied.
Officers, in case you haven't noticed this is quickly becoming the year of the lawsuit. We have an excellent attorney who is more than willing to vigorously work on these cases, and has wonderful track record of winning, and in fact is a former LEO himself. As a group the OC'rs in this state are simply not rolling over when what should have been a simple stop and chitchat (if that) becomes an ugly incident with officers drawing their weapons on unsuspecting citizens and/or handcuffing them while detaining them for indeterminate periods of times for no clear reason.
To the best of my knowledge nobody on this board has been charged with any crime when detained for simply OCing, and yet it seems every month there is one or two ugly stories of a LEO encounter that went bad. I have been on the receiving end of two such stops myself, and still can't understand it. Olympia realized the need for greater training and has done a fine job of training their officers about OC. I cannot understand why other departments will not do the same, it creates less friction between citizens and LEO's and greatly reduces the liability of various departments and individual officers.
There have been too many cases of LEO's drawing weapons on citizens who were not exhibiting threatening behavior. If this trend keeps up, something bad is bound to happen sooner or later. Murphy will stick his nose into this, and there will be a tragic accident, and I don't think all the spin doctors, and cheap suits in the department will be able to cover it up.
It's no secret cops read this board, and I'm hoping you guys will take a moment to realize that the open carry movement isn't going anywhere, that it is legal, and that we are willing to fight for our rights in the court system.
A few bad stops should not tarnish all of law enforcement, but sadly they do. Every time a cop pulls a gun on a guy, or cuffs him, or detains him for simply OCing it darkens the shine of law enforcement a little bit more. I want to trust cops, and for a while I didn't, but I trust the local cops now. Will I trust Puyallup PD if I go there? Nope.
So I'd like the officers reading this to please consider we are all on the same side here; that of law and order. We don't want to break any laws, nor are we. We are just bearing arms for personal defense as is so very carefully enshrined in the State and Federal Constitutions.
There are plenty of good and decent cops out there who do the right thing every day and never get acknowledged for it. For that I thank you. There are plenty of decent cops who sometimes screw up. It happens. We would just like to see it happen less and less with OC. Screw ups are costly for agencies and dangerous for citizens.
So I guess where I am going with all of this, given the growing OC movement, given as every law enforcement agency will at least give lip service to acknowledging the legality of OC, is "Why?" Why are there still problems?
For every LEO out there reading this we don't want to fight you through complaints or lawsuits, and I don't think you really want that either.
Hopefully we can keep working with departments to greatly lessen further negative incidents. Maybe Jarhead's detainment in Puyallup can be the last such incident this year?
First and foremost I want to say this IS NOT a LEO bashing thread and if it turns into one I will ask that it be deleted.
We all know LEO's read this board. Some post openly, some don't. That is fine, there are plenty of of other people who do that too. I have met several LEO's who read this board and I have the utmost respect for them and the job they do. It's one I wouldn't want to do myself.
I am convinced nearly all cops are decent folks. There is of course the occasional bad apple, but that will happen with any group. Ladies and gentlemen of law enforcement I have to wonder why we are still having problems with OC?
Not only has it been clearly established as legal in this state, many agencies have already trained their officers on the subject. I think nearly every LEO in this state knows OC is legal.
This is not about "us versus them" or common citizens trying to power trip. It's an exercise of a right. Yet we as a community keep running into walls of ignorance, or internal cultures that disregard the law and impose individual viewpoints and opinions where none should be applied.
Officers, in case you haven't noticed this is quickly becoming the year of the lawsuit. We have an excellent attorney who is more than willing to vigorously work on these cases, and has wonderful track record of winning, and in fact is a former LEO himself. As a group the OC'rs in this state are simply not rolling over when what should have been a simple stop and chitchat (if that) becomes an ugly incident with officers drawing their weapons on unsuspecting citizens and/or handcuffing them while detaining them for indeterminate periods of times for no clear reason.
To the best of my knowledge nobody on this board has been charged with any crime when detained for simply OCing, and yet it seems every month there is one or two ugly stories of a LEO encounter that went bad. I have been on the receiving end of two such stops myself, and still can't understand it. Olympia realized the need for greater training and has done a fine job of training their officers about OC. I cannot understand why other departments will not do the same, it creates less friction between citizens and LEO's and greatly reduces the liability of various departments and individual officers.
There have been too many cases of LEO's drawing weapons on citizens who were not exhibiting threatening behavior. If this trend keeps up, something bad is bound to happen sooner or later. Murphy will stick his nose into this, and there will be a tragic accident, and I don't think all the spin doctors, and cheap suits in the department will be able to cover it up.
It's no secret cops read this board, and I'm hoping you guys will take a moment to realize that the open carry movement isn't going anywhere, that it is legal, and that we are willing to fight for our rights in the court system.
A few bad stops should not tarnish all of law enforcement, but sadly they do. Every time a cop pulls a gun on a guy, or cuffs him, or detains him for simply OCing it darkens the shine of law enforcement a little bit more. I want to trust cops, and for a while I didn't, but I trust the local cops now. Will I trust Puyallup PD if I go there? Nope.
So I'd like the officers reading this to please consider we are all on the same side here; that of law and order. We don't want to break any laws, nor are we. We are just bearing arms for personal defense as is so very carefully enshrined in the State and Federal Constitutions.
There are plenty of good and decent cops out there who do the right thing every day and never get acknowledged for it. For that I thank you. There are plenty of decent cops who sometimes screw up. It happens. We would just like to see it happen less and less with OC. Screw ups are costly for agencies and dangerous for citizens.
So I guess where I am going with all of this, given the growing OC movement, given as every law enforcement agency will at least give lip service to acknowledging the legality of OC, is "Why?" Why are there still problems?
For every LEO out there reading this we don't want to fight you through complaints or lawsuits, and I don't think you really want that either.
Hopefully we can keep working with departments to greatly lessen further negative incidents. Maybe Jarhead's detainment in Puyallup can be the last such incident this year?
)
