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Thread: When stopped in your car

  1. #1
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    With the rules regarding a traffic stop while carry concealed, it says that you must make aware to the officer that you are carrying and have a CPL. Now, on another site, some posters are telling me that they can take your firearm from you for the duration of the stop, even tho you are legally in possesion of the firearm. I understand that it is for safety, but are we legally bound to hand over our firearm in this instance? It hasnt happened to me, (I dont even have a gun yet).
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


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  2. #2
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Tucker6900 wrote:
    With the rules regarding a traffic stop while carry concealed, it says that you must make aware to the officer that you are carrying and have a CPL. Now, on another site, some posters are telling me that they can take your firearm from you for the duration of the stop, even tho you are legally in possession of the firearm. I understand that it is for safety, but are we legally bound to hand over our firearm in this instance? It hasnt happened to me, (I dont even have a gun yet).
    The MSP state that this might happen. Is it legal, probably covered under officer safety and is allowed. I don't think a jury would disagree with them taking possession of the weapon during a LEGAL stop. Even though statistically there would be an increase in AD's just because morefirearms are handled and thereby increasing the officers risk, as well as the citizens.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    Tucker6900 wrote:
    With the rules regarding a traffic stop while carry concealed, it says that you must make aware to the officer that you are carrying and have a CPL. Now, on another site, some posters are telling me that they can take your firearm from you for the duration of the stop, even tho you are legally in possession of the firearm. I understand that it is for safety, but are we legally bound to hand over our firearm in this instance? It hasnt happened to me, (I dont even have a gun yet).
    The MSP state that this might happen. Is it legal, probably covered under officer safety and is allowed. I don't think a jury would disagree with them taking possession of the weapon during a LEGAL stop. Even though statistically there would be an increase in AD's just because morefirearms are handled and thereby increasing the officers risk, as well as the citizens.
    Yeah, I knew that it could happen. And I have no intention of arguing with the officer about keeping it. Some people would feel safer if the officer did take it. I would feel safer if he knew about it, but didnt take it. Like you said, for the safety of both of us. Thanks for the reply!
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


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    Tucker6900 wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    Tucker6900 wrote:
    With the rules regarding a traffic stop while carry concealed, it says that you must make aware to the officer that you are carrying and have a CPL. Now, on another site, some posters are telling me that they can take your firearm from you for the duration of the stop, even tho you are legally in possession of the firearm. I understand that it is for safety, but are we legally bound to hand over our firearm in this instance? It hasnt happened to me, (I dont even have a gun yet).
    The MSP state that this might happen. Is it legal, probably covered under officer safety and is allowed. I don't think a jury would disagree with them taking possession of the weapon during a LEGAL stop. Even though statistically there would be an increase in AD's just because morefirearms are handled and thereby increasing the officers risk, as well as the citizens.
    Yeah, I knew that it could happen. And I have no intention of arguing with the officer about keeping it. Some people would feel safer if the officer did take it. I would feel safer if he knew about it, but didnt take it. Like you said, for the safety of both of us. Thanks for the reply!
    If you are stopped and you immediately notify that you're carrying-as required by law in Michigan-and the LEO wants to disarm you, tell him/her that you do not approve but will do as they request. At this point have the LEO remove your gun so you don't become part of the AD/ND equation.

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    Still haven't seen an answer to the second part of the orriginal question. We know that per the Terry Stop that they can sieze the weapon for officer safety for the duration of the stop. The second part of the question was, "Are we required to hand it over if ordered?".

    I've often wondered about this question since I personally just not handle the gun in the officers pressence, and I most certainly do not want to give it to him.

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    ghostrider wrote:
    Still haven't seen an answer to the second part of the orriginal question. We know that per the Terry Stop that they can sieze the weapon for officer safety for the duration of the stop. The second part of the question was, "Are we required to hand it over if ordered?".

    I've often wondered about this question since I personally just not handle the gun in the officers pressence, and I most certainly do not want to give it to him.
    Oh I agree, I would ask the officer to relieve me of my weapon. I wouldn't put my hand on it.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    You could always ask that he take the holster and the gun together.

    I would not "hand it over" even if commanded. Let them get it anyway they want. But I for one would not be touching my weapon during a "stop".

    If they refuse to get it them self, I would ask for their superior or the county or state police be called.

    If they still refused, I guess I would then have to start pleading with them and try to explain to them the danger to myself if I were to touch my weapon during the stop.

    And yes, I understand that they could site me for "refusing a lawful order", but thats better than the LEO or his partner shooting me because I "went for my weapon".

  8. #8
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    ghostrider wrote:
    Still haven't seen an answer to the second part of the orriginal question. We know that per the Terry Stop that they can sieze the weapon for officer safety for the duration of the stop. The second part of the question was, "Are we required to hand it over if ordered?".

    I've often wondered about this question since I personally just not handle the gun in the officers pressence, and I most certainly do not want to give it to him.
    I think it was, but maybe I should clarify the original question. It was, are we required by law to.....let the officer take our weapon during the stop?

    I absolutley agree with you. My brother does the same thing. We were stopped and the officer asked "You have a pistol on you? Ok, no problem, but I would like you to hand it over to me for both of our safety." My brother told him, "I would rather you take it, so I dont get shot by you or your partner" The officer agreed, and everything went smoothly. Although at first he wanted to reach through the window and get it. Which is a little scary.
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


    The statements made in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of OCDO or its members.

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    Tucker6900 wrote:
    ghostrider wrote:
    Still haven't seen an answer to the second part of the orriginal question. We know that per the Terry Stop that they can sieze the weapon for officer safety for the duration of the stop. The second part of the question was, "Are we required to hand it over if ordered?".

    I've often wondered about this question since I personally just not handle the gun in the officers pressence, and I most certainly do not want to give it to him.
    I think it was, but maybe I should clarify the original question. It was, are we required by law to.....let the officer take our weapon during the stop?

    I absolutley agree with you. My brother does the same thing. We were stopped and the officer asked "You have a pistol on you? Ok, no problem, but I would like you to hand it over to me for both of our safety." My brother told him, "I would rather you take it, so I dont get shot by you or your partner" The officer agreed, and everything went smoothly. Although at first he wanted to reach through the window and get it. Which is a little scary.
    Legal? That's what court cases are about. I wouldn't refuse an officer taking my gun, unless it was a government confiscation. Outside a government confiscation it's a Battle you would be hard pressed to win. Most case decisions favor officer safety, and would rule in favor of the temporary confiscation. SorryI can't be of more help.

    You can ask the question at the legal beagle thread on the MGO website. An attorney moderates the thread. You can also email the attorney directly with your question.

    http://www.migunowners.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=180

    His email: jtsimmons@jtsimmons.com
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    Tucker6900 wrote:
    ghostrider wrote:
    Still haven't seen an answer to the second part of the orriginal question. We know that per the Terry Stop that they can sieze the weapon for officer safety for the duration of the stop. The second part of the question was, "Are we required to hand it over if ordered?".

    I've often wondered about this question since I personally just not handle the gun in the officers pressence, and I most certainly do not want to give it to him.
    I think it was, but maybe I should clarify the original question. It was, are we required by law to.....let the officer take our weapon during the stop?

    I absolutley agree with you. My brother does the same thing. We were stopped and the officer asked "You have a pistol on you? Ok, no problem, but I would like you to hand it over to me for both of our safety." My brother told him, "I would rather you take it, so I dont get shot by you or your partner" The officer agreed, and everything went smoothly. Although at first he wanted to reach through the window and get it. Which is a little scary.
    SNIP: You can ask the question at the legal beagle thread on the MGO website. An attorney moderates the thread. You can also email the attorney directly with your question.

    His email: jtsimmons@jtsimmons.com
    You can TRY. I have emailed Mr. Simmons several questions, without a reply thus far

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    Venator wrote:
    Tucker6900 wrote:
    ghostrider wrote:
    Still haven't seen an answer to the second part of the orriginal question. We know that per the Terry Stop that they can sieze the weapon for officer safety for the duration of the stop. The second part of the question was, "Are we required to hand it over if ordered?".

    I've often wondered about this question since I personally just not handle the gun in the officers pressence, and I most certainly do not want to give it to him.
    I think it was, but maybe I should clarify the original question. It was, are we required by law to.....let the officer take our weapon during the stop?

    I absolutley agree with you. My brother does the same thing. We were stopped and the officer asked "You have a pistol on you? Ok, no problem, but I would like you to hand it over to me for both of our safety." My brother told him, "I would rather you take it, so I dont get shot by you or your partner" The officer agreed, and everything went smoothly. Although at first he wanted to reach through the window and get it. Which is a little scary.
    SNIP: You can ask the question at the legal beagle thread on the MGO website. An attorney moderates the thread. You can also email the attorney directly with your question.

    His email: jtsimmons@jtsimmons.com
    hmmm double post.....WTH?

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Im a member there as well. I have no intention of not turning it over to the officer, I understand its for safety. Ill check out the legal beagle section. Thanks!
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


    The statements made in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of OCDO or its members.

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    warlockmatized wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    Tucker6900 wrote:
    ghostrider wrote:
    Still haven't seen an answer to the second part of the orriginal question. We know that per the Terry Stop that they can sieze the weapon for officer safety for the duration of the stop. The second part of the question was, "Are we required to hand it over if ordered?".

    I've often wondered about this question since I personally just not handle the gun in the officers pressence, and I most certainly do not want to give it to him.
    I think it was, but maybe I should clarify the original question. It was, are we required by law to.....let the officer take our weapon during the stop?

    I absolutley agree with you. My brother does the same thing. We were stopped and the officer asked "You have a pistol on you? Ok, no problem, but I would like you to hand it over to me for both of our safety." My brother told him, "I would rather you take it, so I dont get shot by you or your partner" The officer agreed, and everything went smoothly. Although at first he wanted to reach through the window and get it. Which is a little scary.
    SNIP: You can ask the question at the legal beagle thread on the MGO website. An attorney moderates the thread. You can also email the attorney directly with your question.

    His email: jtsimmons@jtsimmons.com
    You can TRY. I have emailed Mr. Simmons several questions, without a reply thus far
    I also asked the question over at the legal forum, and got the tired "why wouldn't you just follow orders?" reply.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    I get those too, but at other sites. Wanna see alot of those kinds of responses, go over to officer.com and ask that same question! Its hilarious the reaction get from the officers there.
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


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    Legally, yeah, they can ask for, and take possession of your weapon for the duration of the stop. But for safety(?)............get real. More handling of the weapon, especially by those who may not be familiar with your particular firearm, just increases the danger of AD or ND. How about telling the officer that you'd like to take possession of HIS weapon for your safety? Yeah, I know. Just griping.

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    Venator wins the best response for this

    "I would ask the officer to relieve me of my weapon. I wouldn't put my hand on it."



    Venator wrote:
    ghostrider wrote:
    Still haven't seen an answer to the second part of the orriginal question. We know that per the Terry Stop that they can sieze the weapon for officer safety for the duration of the stop. The second part of the question was, "Are we required to hand it over if ordered?".

    I've often wondered about this question since I personally just not handle the gun in the officers pressence, and I most certainly do not want to give it to him.
    Oh I agree, I would ask the officer to relieve me of my weapon. I wouldn't put my hand on it.

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    defcon1 wrote:
    Legally, yeah, they can ask for, and take possession of your weapon for the duration of the stop. But for safety(?)............get real. More handling of the weapon, especially by those who may not be familiar with your particular firearm, just increases the danger of AD or ND. How about telling the officer that you'd like to take possession of HIS weapon for your safety? Yeah, I know. Just griping.
    Well, the theory is, you MIGHT go nuts and try to shoot the cop....yeah, right. It's just more BS.

    In all the times I've been stopped by police, none has ever asked to take posession of my pistol. Most just say, "Let's leave it where it is." The last one thanked me for telling him and then asked if I knew why he pulled me over. I didn't. Turned out SoS goofed on the license plate tags, and the one I had for the current year, was in the wrong color.
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    I've only had one stop, on a moped of all things. I told the officer that I had a concealed pistol. He seemed REALLY surprised and asked "where?". I then told him that it was in my waistband holster on the right-hand side. He then just asked me some questions about another issue and, while he was getting in his car to leave, said "thanks for telling me about the handgun".
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

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    I've been stopped three times. (Really, I'm not a bad driver). None of the officers asked me to hand over the weapon, and ... none of them seemed surprised, concerned or distressed at all.

    By the way, I just learned of opencarry.org.I guess I've had my attention elsewhere over the past several years. I've had a CPL for about 7 years, and had been watching the Ferndale case early on, but got out of touch prior to its resolution...and had no idea it was ok to OC.

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    jpierce wrote:
    Venator wins the best response for this

    "I would ask the officer to relieve me of my weapon. I wouldn't put my hand on it."


    Venator wrote:
    ghostrider wrote:
    Still haven't seen an answer to the second part of the orriginal question. We know that per the Terry Stop that they can sieze the weapon for officer safety for the duration of the stop. The second part of the question was, "Are we required to hand it over if ordered?".

    I've often wondered about this question since I personally just not handle the gun in the officers pressence, and I most certainly do not want to give it to him.
    Oh I agree, I would ask the officer to relieve me of my weapon. I wouldn't put my hand on it.
    Not to be argumentative, but we haven't had the best response, yet.

    The best response is the one that answers the OP legally-bound question with a case or statutory cite. Check the forum rules. Rule number 7.

    I have yet to read a court opinion after Terry v Ohio that says a police officer can just automatically seize a firearm from any detainee. Terry is very clear. There needs to be reasonable suspicion that a person is both 1) armed and 2) presently dangerous. Read Terry carefully and you will see that Detective McFadden had plenty of reason to think the defendants were armed. And he had another, separate reason to think the defendants were dangerous.

    That does not mean there is not a case, though.There may be one at the state level. I'm only familiar with VA. There may be a federal circuit orSupreme Ct case that I have not come across. I cannot claim to have read them all.

    Regardless, I'd let the officer take the gun. If you want to preserve your rights, you can always say,"I do not consent, but will comply." The time to fight for your rights is after the trafficstop, notduring.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    Hal wrote:
    I've been stopped three times. (Really, I'm not a bad driver). None of the officers asked me to hand over the weapon, and ... none of them seemed surprised, concerned or distressed at all.
    Which just proves the utter failure to use judgement on the part of those who automatically seize a firearm. And proves that the presence of a firearm does not translate automatically into danger.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Hal wrote:
    I've been stopped three times. (Really, I'm not a bad driver). None of the officers asked me to hand over the weapon, and ... none of them seemed surprised, concerned or distressed at all.
    Which just proves the utter failure to use judgement on the part of those who automatically seize a firearm. And proves that the presence of a firearm does not translate automatically into danger.
    I've been pulled over a few times myself I think 5 to be exact lol not that I was doing anything bad. My running lights had a short and kept going out at night so I got rid of the truck. All 5 times I told the officer, and they were fine with it didn't ask where it was or anything. 3 of them did have their hand on their gun, but many cops use their guns as a hand rest so who knows.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    This just in. Pulled over last night on Howell Rd between 52 and Meridian. Heres how it went:

    Ingham Co. Deputy, after my telling him I was armed,

    Dep: Ok,please hand it to me, slowly, through the window

    Me:Iwill not hand it to you, but if you want totake it, I will step out of the vehicle and you can take it yourself. However, I think we would both feel safer if all weapons here stayed where they are, dont you?

    Dep: (he seemed to ponder the previous statement for about 10 seconds as he looked at my DL, CPL) Agreed, just dont shoot me!

    Me: Same goes for you.

    It was quite the pleasant encounter. After he handed me back my paperwork, no ticket for not using my turn signal, he said: "Thanks for being upfront and honest with me. I usually disarm people at night, but turing your overhead light on and the fact that you kept your hands where I could see them, made a big difference, and I appreciate that. Have a good night."
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


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  24. #24
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    Tucker6900 wrote:
    This just in. Pulled over last night on Howell Rd between 52 and Meridian. Heres how it went:

    Ingham Co. Deputy, after my telling him I was armed,

    Dep: Ok,please hand it to me, slowly, through the window

    Me:Iwill not hand it to you, but if you want totake it, I will step out of the vehicle and you can take it yourself. However, I think we would both feel safer if all weapons here stayed where they are, dont you?

    Dep: (he seemed to ponder the previous statement for about 10 seconds as he looked at my DL, CPL) Agreed, just dont shoot me!

    Me: Same goes for you.

    It was quite the pleasant encounter. After he handed me back my paperwork, no ticket for not using my turn signal, he said: "Thanks for being upfront and honest with me. I usually disarm people at night, but turing your overhead light on and the fact that you kept your hands where I could see them, made a big difference, and I appreciate that. Have a good night."
    well done! although, i probably would have said "i'd rather not hand it to you" vs "i will not hand it to you". since he legally has the right to disarm you.
    it doesn't make sense that any officer would try to disarm someone who is being upfront about the fact they are armed. many nightmare scenarios have crossed my mind in this regard. you obviously can't hand the gun out barrel forward, but when the officer takes it from you, he's got the barrel pointed at you.
    i haven't been pulled over while carrying yet, but if an officer wanted to disarm me, i think i might suggest to him that he allow me to carefully place the gun on the passenger seat and exit the vehicle and just leave the gun there until he was done ticketing me or whatever. that way the gun is out of my reach and he knows where i am at all times. i think that might be a good, safe, compromise.
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  25. #25
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Tucker6900 wrote:
    This just in. Pulled over last night on Howell Rd between 52 and Meridian. Heres how it went:

    Ingham Co. Deputy, after my telling him I was armed,

    Dep: Ok,please hand it to me, slowly, through the window

    Me:Iwill not hand it to you, but if you want totake it, I will step out of the vehicle and you can take it yourself. However, I think we would both feel safer if all weapons here stayed where they are, dont you?

    Dep: (he seemed to ponder the previous statement for about 10 seconds as he looked at my DL, CPL) Agreed, just dont shoot me!

    Me: Same goes for you.

    It was quite the pleasant encounter. After he handed me back my paperwork, no ticket for not using my turn signal, he said: "Thanks for being upfront and honest with me. I usually disarm people at night, but turing your overhead light on and the fact that you kept your hands where I could see them, made a big difference, and I appreciate that. Have a good night."
    Must have been a rookie.

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