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Thread: Blagojevich: Chicago May Need National Guard Help

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    Gun violence! It sounds like good old fashion violence to me. It is a ploy to change public opinion for the lawsuit there in or will be facing. They need armed cetizensin a goodold fashion posse. The last thing they need is the gaurd involved. Them guys would do anything there told to do. Which isn't always a good thing.

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    Regular Member Huck's Avatar
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    murphy2 wrote:
    The last thing they need is the gaurd involved. Them guys would do anything there told to do. Which isn't always a good thing.
    You obviously know nothing about the National Guard. I was in the California Guard during the Rodney King riots in 1992 and when we got orders to shoot any looters we flat out refused to do so because we didnt consider stealing aTV or some clothes to be something worth killing people for.

    Contrary to what you obviously think, National Guardsmen are goodpeople who have morals and ethics. And are far, far from being the mindless thugs you obviously think they are.


    "You can teach 'em, but you cant learn 'em."

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    "Blagojevich said there's been a child shot nearly every day since June 26."

    I wonder ifmost of these arepreteens orteenage gang-bangers fighting drug-turf wars...

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    The Brady types frequently count 25 year olds as 'children' for statistical purposes, even if these 'children' have sizable rap sheets and were killed when engaging in criminal activity.

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    Well, the NG heli's will give the bangers some arial gunnery practice...Imagine 30-40 bangers taking potshots at an Apache or an armed up 'hawk....nothing says "respect authority" like a few quick bursts from a 30mm chaingun...

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Blagojevich may be the worst governor in the state's history.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    I've got the solution for crime in Chicago, or anywhere for that matter, and it's very simple, one sentence.

    Issue every law abiding citizen a gun, teach him/her to use it, tell them to never let it leave their possession, and make it a felony not to protect yourself with it.


    Now there is gun control I like!!

    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Huck wrote:
    murphy2 wrote:
    The last thing they need is the gaurd involved. Them guys would do anything there told to do. Which isn't always a good thing.
    You obviously know nothing about the National Guard. I was in the California Guard during the Rodney King riots in 1992 and when we got orders to shoot any looters we flat out refused to do so because we didn't consider stealing aTV or some clothes to be something worth killing people for.

    Contrary to what you obviously think, National Guardsmen are goodpeople who have morals and ethics. And are far, far from being the mindless thugs you obviously think they are.

    Your right, I haven't spent 20 years (with time in the sand box and Katrina) in the NG, From the Cavalry. to Maintenance and then MPs. (of which is made up of prison guards an LEOs on the civilian side). I have not seen the training on detaining and searching American civilians (with that as the mission scenario) I am glade your unit has the guts to stand up for the constitution. But the Military has no place in that roll. Because not everyone there thinks like me and you. And you know that, don't be naive. The more they do it the more it will be excepted. Just like the professional police subject on anther post. Please do not take this reply as rude I mean no offence. Thank you fro your service. "This we'll defend"

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    Also, mindless? I know there good soldiers, that's what worries me about them being envolved In a police roll. Do we want a boston riot again? History man.

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    Huck wrote:
    murphy2 wrote:
    The last thing they need is the gaurd involved. Them guys would do anything there told to do. Which isn't always a good thing.
    You obviously know nothing about the National Guard. I was in the California Guard during the Rodney King riots in 1992 and when we got orders to shoot any looters we flat out refused to do so because we didnt consider stealing aTV or some clothes to be something worth killing people for.

    Contrary to what you obviously think, National Guardsmen are goodpeople who have morals and ethics. And are far, far from being the mindless thugs you obviously think they are.

    Hey Pal that's just your opinion, and your Unit. You can't speak for the Entire NG.

    There is a reason you swear in against "Foreign & Domestic".





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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Well this quickly got off track. Statements of absolutes will most always be wrong.

    I agree that this is not the job of the National Guard. Chicago has a home grown gang and crime problem that they need to deal with using effective home grown law enforcement. Having thousands or tens of thousands of criminals in close proximity with millions of law abiding citizens creates a target rich environment. Ceasing the infringement of the citizens' RKBA essentially gives Chicago an auxilary police force of citizens who will refuse to be victimized any longer.

    It is an interesting study of how government grows through disarmament though. Take the guns away from the citizens and otherwise deny they right to self-defense and the criminal element grows. Eventually the criminals are further emboldened and grow to a size that a typical domestic police force is unable to deal with them. So the authorities call in the National Guard which leads to greater unrest thereby further justifying military type tactics and armament to keep order. Eventually you have martial law and the military roaming the streets.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    deepdiver wrote:
    Well this quickly got off track. Statements of absolutes will most always be wrong.

    I agree that this is not the job of the National Guard. Chicago has a home grown gang and crime problem that they need to deal with using effective home grown law enforcement. Having thousands or tens of thousands of criminals in close proximity with millions of law abiding citizens creates a target rich environment. Ceasing the infringement of the citizens' RKBA essentially gives Chicago an auxilary police force of citizens who will refuse to be victimized any longer.

    It is an interesting study of how government grows through disarmament though. Take the guns away from the citizens and otherwise deny they right to self-defense and the criminal element grows. Eventually the criminals are further emboldened and grow to a size that a typical domestic police force is unable to deal with them. So the authorities call in the National Guard which leads to greater unrest thereby further justifying military type tactics and armament to keep order. Eventually you have martial law and the military roaming the streets.

    ditto

    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Dustin wrote:
    Huck wrote:
    murphy2 wrote:
    The last thing they need is the gaurd involved. Them guys would do anything there told to do. Which isn't always a good thing.
    You obviously know nothing about the National Guard. I was in the California Guard during the Rodney King riots in 1992 and when we got orders to shoot any looters we flat out refused to do so because we didnt consider stealing aTV or some clothes to be something worth killing people for.

    Contrary to what you obviously think, National Guardsmen are goodpeople who have morals and ethics. And are far, far from being the mindless thugs you obviously think they are.

    Hey Pal that's just your opinion, and your Unit. You can't speak for the Entire NG.

    There is a reason you swear in against "Foreign & Domestic".



    You are right. I can only speak of what I've seen and believe to be true. Just as in every organization there are good and bad andopinion is all it is. I will say, they did not ask or order us to shoot looters at Katrina. But there was a few itching to "defend them selves".

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    deepdiver wrote:
    Well this quickly got off track. Statements of absolutes will most always be wrong.

    I agree that this is not the job of the National Guard. Chicago has a home grown gang and crime problem that they need to deal with using effective home grown law enforcement. Having thousands or tens of thousands of criminals in close proximity with millions of law abiding citizens creates a target rich environment. Ceasing the infringement of the citizens' RKBA essentially gives Chicago an auxilary police force of citizens who will refuse to be victimized any longer.

    It is an interesting study of how government grows through disarmament though. Take the guns away from the citizens and otherwise deny they right to self-defense and the criminal element grows. Eventually the criminals are further emboldened and grow to a size that a typical domestic police force is unable to deal with them. So the authorities call in the National Guard which leads to greater unrest thereby further justifying military type tactics and armament to keep order. Eventually you have martial law and the military roaming the streets.
    My point exactly. I should have spelled it out better than I did. You also have to remember the government /s have an interest in unrest. It justifies there existence.

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    Huck wrote:
    You obviously know nothing about the National Guard. I was in the California Guard during the Rodney King riots in 1992 and when we got orders to shoot any looters we flat out refused to do so because we didnt consider stealing aÂ*TV or some clothes to be something worth killing people for.
    Too bad the looters didn't feel the same way.

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    murphy2 wrote:
    deepdiver wrote:
    Well this quickly got off track. Statements of absolutes will most always be wrong.

    I agree that this is not the job of the National Guard. Chicago has a home grown gang and crime problem that they need to deal with using effective home grown law enforcement. Having thousands or tens of thousands of criminals in close proximity with millions of law abiding citizens creates a target rich environment. Ceasing the infringement of the citizens' RKBA essentially gives Chicago an auxilary police force of citizens who will refuse to be victimized any longer.

    It is an interesting study of how government grows through disarmament though. Take the guns away from the citizens and otherwise deny they right to self-defense and the criminal element grows. Eventually the criminals are further emboldened and grow to a size that a typical domestic police force is unable to deal with them. So the authorities call in the National Guard which leads to greater unrest thereby further justifying military type tactics and armament to keep order. Eventually you have martial law and the military roaming the streets.
    My point exactly. I should have spelled it out better than I did. You also have to remember the government /s have an interest in unrest. It justifies there existence.
    What will the guard do, call 911? Gees….what’s this governor thinking?



    He also states he wants to hire more police. Yeah, sounds like there is little regard for the law over there already. I can understand the support roll that the guard can provide in transportation and communication maybe, but what else they could be used for in this setting is questionable. This sounds like he is just throwing out ideas to calm a growing mass of an angered constituency. They have lost the battle there in Chicago and can’t figure out why. Maybe it has something to do with the current city administration, but this is just a guess on my part. It seems I read somewhere that if guns are outlawed; only criminals will have guns. Maybe stricter laws that allow “protect yourself and community” should be suggested at the next city council meeting, because the local government can’t seem to. What if citizens formed their own police/militia, block by block, and asked Chicago’s finest not to bring guns into their neighborhood without a permit?



    Gotta, love the guard, but there is just some things the organization isn’t designed for. With some control, direction and recognizable parameters defined, I have no doubt the guard could indeed act as police and make just a big a mess, if not bigger, than any law enforcement agency. But only in a neat organized military fashion. However, this is not there function and I do not agree with using real military troops (not LEO’s) in this manner. Most of the guard is of the character and upbringing they would rather just be civilians and stop crime in their communities while standing next to their neighbors on the same legal footing, as just an average citizen minding the business that is indeed theirs, defending what is theirs.

    Not to add this would be a bad habit for government leaders to start using military so liberally in our American cities.



    The answer is to allow people to exercise their rights, and for government at all levels to stop arrogantly trying to tell everybody what it thinks best for them. That is not their job.



    I just know someone out there is thinking, “I obviously know nothing about the National Guard,” and “You can’t speak for the whole guard”. Trust me on this, I would not want to.







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