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  1. #1
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    dad was speeding (dont tell mom) and a cop pulled dad over. we were both OCing, but my gun was on the floor in plain view. the cop walks up, dad hands him his CWP and i said we had 2 unloaded firearms in the car "thats fine" he said. *we hand him vehicle reg* he said "since you cooperated so well, ill just let you guys off with a warning, have a nice day." didnt even check to see where the guns were LOL!

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    correct me if i'm wrong ..... buti heardsomewhere that..... when a LEO pulls u over for whatever and u have a sidearm on or with u in the vehicle he has to call for back-up for him to give u a citation! so most of the time it's not worth the hassle to call in back up for minor offenses so they let u off with a "Warning" .......

    like i said i just heard this somewhere and i have never been pulled over before with a firearm on me! so i can't tell u off first hand experience!

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    Very nice.

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    b1ack5mith wrote:
    dad was speeding (dont tell mom) and a cop pulled dad over. we were both OCing, but my gun was on the floor in plain view. the cop walks up, dad hands him his CWP and i said we had 2 unloaded firearms in the car "thats fine" he said. *we hand him vehicle reg* he said "since you cooperated so well, ill just let you guys off with a warning, have a nice day." didnt even check to see where the guns were LOL!
    Nice.

    It also boldly highlights theidiot police who seize guns for no reason other than automatic personal comfort in lieu of using powers of observation and judgement to determine the second prong of Terry--presently dangerous. If it were all thattrue that everybody with a gun was dangerous,no cop wouldtake a chance. All cops would order everybody out of the car, search for and seize the gun(s). Then ask for the registration.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    schwarzi88 wrote:
    correct me if i'm wrong ..... buti heardsomewhere that..... when a LEO pulls u over for whatever and u have a sidearm on or with u in the vehicle he has to call for back-up for him to give u a citation! so most of the time it's not worth the hassle to call in back up for minor offenses so they let u off with a "Warning" .......

    like i said i just heard this somewhere and i have never been pulled over before with a firearm on me! so i can't tell u off first hand experience!
    Negative. I have never heard of this happening -- and I have heard plenty of "pulled over while carrying" stories that DO end in a ticket.

    ...remember that you don't even have to mention your weapon unless it is concealed. Not saying don't mention it, but you are not required to say anything.

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    ...remember that you don't even have to mention your weapon unless it is concealed. Not saying don't mention it, but you are not required to say anything.
    I don't know if this is right or not but I was told in my CC class that if you have a CC permit you must inform the officer that you have a permit and then if you are currently armed or not. So even if you are OC or you don't even have a gun with you, you still have to tell them. This is when you are stopped of course not just when you see an officer or he says hi. This was explained as an administrative rule which is treated as law.

    Anyone know for sure if you do have to inform the officer of your permit even when not carrying at all or carrying OC?

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    If you are unarmed, but have you CFP, you are not required to inform the officer. It is recommended that you do inform them to remove suspicion, but you are not required to do so.

    If you have your permit and OC, you should still probably inform. Same with OC without a permit. While these may not be required, it is most likely in your best interest to give the LEO the head's up.

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    Yeah I just looked it up in Utah Gun Law 3rd ed. It says you only have to inform them if you are carrying concealed. I should have looked it up first before asking.

    It seems I was taught wrong in my CC class. I even have the handout that says you must tell them if you are armed or not.

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    There does seem to be MUCH confusion among certain Instructors and MANY LEO about the requirements....

    Just wish there was a good way to correct the misinformation without getting the tongue lashing from the LEO who thinks that I must inform about a CF permit even though I am not carrying or carring open.

    JoeSparky
    Cykaos wrote:
    Yeah I just looked it up in Utah Gun Law 3rd ed. It says you only have to inform them if you are carrying concealed. I should have looked it up first before asking.

    It seems I was taught wrong in my CC class. I even have the handout that says you must tell them if you are armed or not.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    b1ack5mith wrote:
    dad was speeding (dont tell mom) and a cop pulled dad over. we were both OCing, but my gun was on the floor in plain view. the cop walks up, dad hands him his CWP and i said we had 2 unloaded firearms in the car "thats fine" he said. *we hand him vehicle reg* he said "since you cooperated so well, ill just let you guys off with a warning, have a nice day." didnt even check to see where the guns were LOL!
    I am curious about which locality this happened. and Have you sent a letter commending the manner in which this was handled?
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  11. #11
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    If I lived in Utah, I would by that cop a drink. We need more like him on the streets, thanks man

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    Required or not- JUST TELL THEM. Really. Think on it.

    If you don't, and it comes out during further interaction, they're going to be on a whole new level of curious about you.

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    41 Magnum wrote:
    Required or not- JUST TELL THEM. Really. Think on it.

    If you don't, and it comes out during further interaction, they're going to be on a whole new level of curious about you.
    I'm of two minds about this.

    On the one hand, telling them seems to be the way to make things go most smoothly.

    On the other hand, if you're legally not required to tell them, then they have no reason to expect that you will, and should know how to deal with that appropriately.

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    swillden wrote:
    41 Magnum wrote:
    Required or not- JUST TELL THEM. Really. Think on it.

    If you don't, and it comes out during further interaction, they're going to be on a whole new level of curious about you.
    I'm of two minds about this.

    On the one hand, telling them seems to be the way to make things go most smoothly.

    On the other hand, if you're legally not required to tell them, then they have no reason to expect that you will, and should know how to deal with that appropriately.
    And I agree with you 100%.... while not REQUIRED if not carrying concealled, it would seem to be a way to help things go smoothly.

    I wonder....

    CFP Holder, "Officer, I am NOT required to tell you that I am open carrying with a concealled firearm permit."

    Officer, "YOU ARE REQUIRED TO TELL ME IF YOU HAVE A CONCEALED FIREARM PERMIT!"

    DFP Holder, "Officer, please accept this copy of the regulation and here also is AG Shurtleif (sp)'s transcript of testimony to the Utah State legislature on a related matter."



    Seems like it is just going to fall on deaf ears most of the time....

    Joe Sparky

    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    schwarzi88 wrote:
    correct me if i'm wrong ..... buti heardsomewhere that..... when a LEO pulls u over for whatever and u have a sidearm on or with u in the vehicle he has to call for back-up for him to give u a citation! so most of the time it's not worth the hassle to call in back up for minor offenses so they let u off with a "Warning" .......

    like i said i just heard this somewhere and i have never been pulled over before with a firearm on me! so i can't tell u off first hand experience!


    The UHP officer that pulled me over on I-15 in Draper didn't call in backup and DID issue me a citation...difference being my weapon was securely encased and in plain view!

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    double post for some reason????

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    SlimsBFG wrote:
    schwarzi88 wrote:
    correct me if i'm wrong ..... buti heardsomewhere that..... when a LEO pulls u over for whatever and u have a sidearm on or with u in the vehicle he has to call for back-up for him to give u a citation! so most of the time it's not worth the hassle to call in back up for minor offenses so they let u off with a "Warning" .......

    like i said i just heard this somewhere and i have never been pulled over before with a firearm on me! so i can't tell u off first hand experience!


    The UHP officer that pulled me over on I-15 in Draper didn't call in backup and DID issue me a citation...difference being my weapon was securely encased and in plain view!
    How can a weapon be BOTH "securely encased and in plain view!" at the SAME time ???:?

    TJ


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    LOL! ooops...I meant the CASE was in plain view! ;-p

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    SlimsBFG wrote:
    LOL! ooops...I meant the CASE was in plain view! ;-p
    That makes sense. That's what I thot you meant but wasn't sure.

    TJ

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    JoeSparky wrote:
    swillden wrote:
    41 Magnum wrote:
    Required or not- JUST TELL THEM. Really. Think on it.

    If you don't, and it comes out during further interaction, they're going to be on a whole new level of curious about you.
    I'm of two minds about this.

    On the one hand, telling them seems to be the way to make things go most smoothly.

    On the other hand, if you're legally not required to tell them, then they have no reason to expect that you will, and should know how to deal with that appropriately.
    And I agree with you 100%.... while not REQUIRED if not carrying concealled, it would seem to be a way to help things go smoothly.

    I wonder....

    CFP Holder, "Officer, I am NOT required to tell you that I am open carrying with a concealled firearm permit."

    Officer, "YOU ARE REQUIRED TO TELL ME IF YOU HAVE A CONCEALED FIREARM PERMIT!"

    DFP Holder, "Officer, please accept this copy of the regulation and here also is AG Shurtleif (sp)'s transcript of testimony to the Utah State legislature on a related matter."

    Seems like it is just going to fall on deaf ears most of the time....
    I would never advocate arguing with the officer about it. If the officer insists on seeing your permit when you don't have reason to show it, give it to him then file a complaint afterwards.

    In general, the time to address LEOs who overstep their authority is AFTER the incident. While you're there, just do what you're told. At most, it may be useful to point out to the officer that you're complying with his orders, but doing so against your will. That way they can't claim that you did it voluntarily.

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SlimsBFG wrote:
    schwarzi88 wrote:
    correct me if i'm wrong ..... buti heardsomewhere that..... when a LEO pulls u over for whatever and u have a sidearm on or with u in the vehicle he has to call for back-up for him to give u a citation! so most of the time it's not worth the hassle to call in back up for minor offenses so they let u off with a "Warning" .......

    like i said i just heard this somewhere and i have never been pulled over before with a firearm on me! so i can't tell u off first hand experience!


    The UHP officer that pulled me over on I-15 in Draper didn't call in backup and DID issue me a citation...difference being my weapon was securely encased and in plain view!
    How can a weapon be BOTH "securely encased and in plain view!" at the SAME time ???:?

    TJ
    It could be in a locked, transparent lexan case... securely encased and in plain view

  22. #22
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    GeneticsDave wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SlimsBFG wrote:
    schwarzi88 wrote:
    correct me if i'm wrong ..... buti heardsomewhere that..... when a LEO pulls u over for whatever and u have a sidearm on or with u in the vehicle he has to call for back-up for him to give u a citation! so most of the time it's not worth the hassle to call in back up for minor offenses so they let u off with a "Warning" .......

    like i said i just heard this somewhere and i have never been pulled over before with a firearm on me! so i can't tell u off first hand experience!


    The UHP officer that pulled me over on I-15 in Draper didn't call in backup and DID issue me a citation...difference being my weapon was securely encased and in plain view!
    How can a weapon be BOTH "securely encased and in plain view!" at the SAME time ???:?

    TJ
    It could be in a locked, transparent lexan case... securely encased and in plain view

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  24. #24
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    D94R wrote:
    If you're not carrying, but have a permit it's up to you to tell him or produce the permit. I, on the other hand, would keep it silent if not carrying. Or, tell him you have a permit, but are not carrying.
    If you have a Utah permit, that will come up when he runs your license. Now, it seems a better idea to me to tell him I have a permit right up front, explaining I am not actually carrying today, than to explain to a now nervous, possibly unhappy officer why I did not feel obliged to tell him before he found out from running my license through his in car terminal. Indeed, there is no need for me to "tell" him I have a permit as I keep my permit next to my DL in my wallet and if stopped both will come out together and get handed over while I keep my hands on the wheel.

    And, of course, when legally required to inform, I will do so.

    Before I had my permit my opinion on informing was like this:

    IF I figured the officer was likely to become aware of my gun during the routine stop, I wanted to tell him about it first so as to minimize his concern about it and reduce any risk for both of us. However, if he wasn't likely to become aware of my legal firearm during the stop there was no reason to complicate a routine profiling stop (I used to drive a classic muscle car in need of enough body and paint work that it just screamed "uninsured, minority teenager", very few tickets, a lot of stops) by introducing a gun (even verbally) needlessly.

    Finally, any gun possessed ILLEGALLY is covered under the 5th amendment and NO law or regulation can require you to surrender THAT right. But remember, non-incrimination means silence, NOT lying about anything. Of course, this situation has never applied to me so I speak only of legal theory and technicalities rather than anything I've ever had any practice with.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  25. #25
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    You should send a letter to this officer's chief commending his professionalism.

    I would NOT go into any details of why the stop was made or the fact that a ticket was not issued as you'd hate to get him in trouble on that front. But you can certainly mention how you are a concealed firearms permit holder, had a routine interaction with officer (or trooper or deputy) whomever, and just wanted to commend him on his professionalism generally as well as how he responded to you and your lawful firearm generally.

    Again, not too many details. Just some nice praise for professionalism, demeanor, etc.

    The officer WILL remember you and your letter helps to reinforce good conduct on his part next time.

    Also, should you ever have occasion to file a complaint against an officer, the fact that you have previously taken the time to send a letter or two of comendation to a different officer provides great evidence that you are not just a cop basher.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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