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pulled over

GeneticsDave

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Oct 24, 2007
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472
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Bountiful, Utah, , USA
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UTOC-45-44 wrote:
SlimsBFG wrote:
schwarzi88 wrote:
correct me if i'm wrong ..... buti heardsomewhere that..... when a LEO pulls u over for whatever and u have a sidearm on or with u in the vehicle he has to call for back-up for him to give u a citation! so most of the time it's not worth the hassle to call in back up for minor offenses so they let u off with a "Warning" .......

like i said i just heard this somewhere and i have never been pulled over before with a firearm on me! so i can't tell u off first hand experience!



The UHP officer that pulled me over on I-15 in Draper didn't call in backup and DID issue me a citation...difference being my weapon was securely encased and in plain view!

How can a weapon be BOTH "securely encased and in plain view!" at the SAME time ???:?

TJ
It could be in a locked, transparent lexan case... securely encased and in plain view :lol:
 

UTOC-45-44

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Morgan, Utah, USA
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GeneticsDave wrote:
UTOC-45-44 wrote:
SlimsBFG wrote:
schwarzi88 wrote:
correct me if i'm wrong ..... buti heardsomewhere that..... when a LEO pulls u over for whatever and u have a sidearm on or with u in the vehicle he has to call for back-up for him to give u a citation! so most of the time it's not worth the hassle to call in back up for minor offenses so they let u off with a "Warning" .......

like i said i just heard this somewhere and i have never been pulled over before with a firearm on me! so i can't tell u off first hand experience!



The UHP officer that pulled me over on I-15 in Draper didn't call in backup and DID issue me a citation...difference being my weapon was securely encased and in plain view!

How can a weapon be BOTH "securely encased and in plain view!" at the SAME time ???:?

TJ
It could be in a locked, transparent lexan case... securely encased and in plain view :lol:
:lol::lol::lol:
 

utbagpiper

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D94R wrote:
If you're not carrying, but have a permit it's up to you to tell him or produce the permit. I, on the other hand, would keep it silent if not carrying. Or, tell him you have a permit, but are not carrying.
If you have a Utah permit, that will come up when he runs your license. Now, it seems a better idea to me to tell him I have a permit right up front, explaining I am not actually carrying today, than to explain to a now nervous, possibly unhappy officer why I did not feel obliged to tell him before he found out from running my license through his in car terminal. Indeed, there is no need for me to "tell" him I have a permit as I keep my permit next to my DL in my wallet and if stopped both will come out together and get handed over while I keep my hands on the wheel.

And, of course, when legally required to inform, I will do so.

Before I had my permit my opinion on informing was like this:

IF I figured the officer was likely to become aware of my gun during the routine stop, I wanted to tell him about it first so as to minimize his concern about it and reduce any risk for both of us. However, if he wasn't likely to become aware of my legal firearm during the stop there was no reason to complicate a routine profiling stop (I used to drive a classic muscle car in need of enough body and paint work that it just screamed "uninsured, minority teenager", very few tickets, a lot of stops) by introducing a gun (even verbally) needlessly.

Finally, any gun possessed ILLEGALLY is covered under the 5th amendment and NO law or regulation can require you to surrender THAT right. But remember, non-incrimination means silence, NOT lying about anything. Of course, this situation has never applied to me so I speak only of legal theory and technicalities rather than anything I've ever had any practice with.

Charles
 

utbagpiper

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You should send a letter to this officer's chief commending his professionalism.

I would NOT go into any details of why the stop was made or the fact that a ticket was not issued as you'd hate to get him in trouble on that front. But you can certainly mention how you are a concealed firearms permit holder, had a routine interaction with officer (or trooper or deputy) whomever, and just wanted to commend him on his professionalism generally as well as how he responded to you and your lawful firearm generally.

Again, not too many details. Just some nice praise for professionalism, demeanor, etc.

The officer WILL remember you and your letter helps to reinforce good conduct on his part next time.

Also, should you ever have occasion to file a complaint against an officer, the fact that you have previously taken the time to send a letter or two of comendation to a different officer provides great evidence that you are not just a cop basher.

Charles
 

Cykaos

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Jun 7, 2008
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West Valley City, Utah, USA
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Asking if you are being detained does nothing in this situation. The only time you need to inform the officer you are carrying is if it's a Terry stop. If you are stopped at a random road check or the officer walks up to you then you do not have to inform them that you are carrying.

When you are pulled over because of speeding or a traffic violation that is a Terry stop and you are being detained and you are not free to go.

Again if it isn't a terry stop you don't have to inform them. If it is a terry stop then you are being detained and asking does nothing except confirm whether or not it's a terry stop. In the case of getting pulled over on the road you are being detained.
 

eddified

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May 30, 2008
Messages
47
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Lehi, Utah, USA
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b1ack5mith wrote:
dad was speeding (dont tell mom) and a cop pulled dad over. we were both OCing, but my gun was on the floor in plain view. the cop walks up, dad hands him his CWP and i said we had 2 unloaded firearms in the car "thats fine" he said. *we hand him vehicle reg* he said "since you cooperated so well, ill just let you guys off with a warning, have a nice day." didnt even check to see where the guns were LOL!
So, what exactly was the Original Poster doing wrong? Is it that the gun was supposed to be OUT of the case and on the DASH? is that it?
 

utbagpiper

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D94R wrote:
That's almost entirely my point. You are not obligated unless you are indeed carrying, which we both agree on. If he feels nervous now or is not happy, that's on him, and should be no indication you are hiding anything. His next question should most definately be "are you carrying?", but should go no farther once you have answered NO. If he presses the answer, fall back on the ol "am I being detained" and go from there.


Some people will show the ID regardless, and that's fine. I'm however, a little more challenging when it comes to authority over stepping their boundries, never disrespectfully though.
No argument as to the LEGAL requirments.

My point is that there are things I can do that cost me NOTHING to make life a little easier on a traffic cop and in most cases, a combination of common-courtesy and simple self-interest suggests that doing so is the right move.

If I have a Utah permit, a Utah officer WILL KNOW about the permit when he runs my license. What do I lose by giving him my permit with my license rather than letting him discover it on his own? Nothing. It costs me nothing and maybe buys me some good will. I just Scots enough not to pass up a deal like that.

A "routine traffic stop" is one of the more dangerous things cops have to do on any regular basis. And once a cop finds valid reason to stop me it is entirely his discretion on whether to issue me a ticket or not. If he issues a ticket, it WILL cost me one way or another, even if I beat it in court. My time, alone, is worth something to me.

I don't expect a carry permit to get me out of a ticket I really deserve. But there are such things as borderline cases and officer discretion and I just don't see any problem making life a little easier on a professional cop just doing his job.

There is no over-stepping of bounds or authority in lighting up a car that is observed to have violated some traffic law, nor in asking for license, registration, and proof of insurance. If I don't like some traffic law, I need to talk to my legislator rather than get upset about a cop enforcing the law. On the flip side, any cops who don't like OC, CCC, or CC can also talk to their legislator while keeping their personal opinions out of their professional conduct.

Charles
 

xmirage2kx

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Lehi, Utah, USA
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Cykaos wrote:
Yeah I just looked it up in Utah Gun Law 3rd ed. It says you only have to inform them if you are carrying concealed.

The important question is WHY would you ever need to know this? If you have your CC Permit then why were you UNARMED?!?!?!?



:celebrate
 

utbagpiper

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xmirage2kx wrote:
Cykaos wrote:
Yeah I just looked it up in Utah Gun Law 3rd ed. It says you only have to inform them if you are carrying concealed.
The important question is WHY would you ever need to know this? If you have your CC Permit then why were you UNARMED?!?!?!?
There are those whose work prevents them from carrying, even secured in their car. For many the risk may be "only" finding himself unemployed (for cause, no less) in the current environment. For others--such as those working at Dugway, Hill, or other Federal installations--the penalty for getting caught with a gun in the car may include serious criminal charges.

Nothing the State can do about federal reservations. But parking lot preemption would protect most employees' ability to defend themselves to and from work, during the commute, without fear of job loww.

Charles
 

xmirage2kx

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Lehi, Utah, USA
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utbagpiper wrote:
xmirage2kx wrote:
Cykaos wrote:
Yeah I just looked it up in Utah Gun Law 3rd ed. It says you only have to inform them if you are carrying concealed.
The important question is WHY would you ever need to know this? If you have your CC Permit then why were you UNARMED?!?!?!?
There are those whose work prevents them from carrying, even secured in their car. For many the risk may be "only" finding himself unemployed (for cause, no less) in the current environment. For others--such as those working at Dugway, Hill, or other Federal installations--the penalty for getting caught with a gun in the car may include serious criminal charges.

Nothing the State can do about federal reservations. But parking lot preemption would protect most employees' ability to defend themselves to and from work, during the commute, without fear of job loww.

Charles
yes, sadly there are times that force you to be unarmed :cry:
 

thx997303

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Lehi, Utah, USA
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I do agree with you on this one, unless I am not being detained.

Pulled over, yes give them ID

Talked to on the street, ask if being detained, and if not walk away, if so, give ID.
 

UTOC-45-44

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brokenarrows wrote:
JoeSparky wrote:
swillden wrote:
41 Magnum wrote:
Required or not- JUST TELL THEM. Really. Think on it.

If you don't, and it comes out during further interaction, they're going to be on a whole new level of curious about you.
I'm of two minds about this.

On the one hand, telling them seems to be the way to make things go most smoothly.

On the other hand, if you're legally not required to tell them, then they have no reason to expect that you will, and should know how to deal with that appropriately.
And I agree with you 100%.... while not REQUIRED if not carrying concealled, it would seem to be a way to help things go smoothly.

I wonder....

CFP Holder, "Officer, I am NOT required to tell you that I am open carrying with a concealled firearm permit."

Officer, "YOU ARE REQUIRED TO TELL ME IF YOU HAVE A CONCEALED FIREARM PERMIT!"

DFP Holder, "Officer, please accept this copy of the regulation and here also is AG Shurtleif (sp)'s transcript of testimony to the Utah State legislature on a related matter."



Seems like it is just going to fall on deaf ears most of the time....:banghead:

Joe Sparky
is it really an issue? can you just advise the officer in polite way that you are carrying or have a permit either way? what does it cost you????

brokenarrows, we don't want this Country to turn out to be a "-Papieren Bitte" country.


We don't need another Stalin eraor even a Hitler era anymore. It's IN THE PAST.

TJ
 
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