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Thread: Dick Heller's Handgun Application is Rejected

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    http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/stor...&catid=158


    It took me several minutes to stop laughing at DC. Are they just begging to go see Scalia again?

    --RedKnightt--

    Zombie Squad has it right: “We hold fast to the belief that if you are prepared for a scenario where the walking corpses of your family and neighbors are trying to eat you alive, you will be prepared for almost anything.”


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    I've lost the capacity for words to describe how ridiculous this situation has become.

    Time for serious punitive action to be taken against DC.......

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    It's all fun and games until Rep Souder passes a whole new law through Congress just to slap you in the head.

    I need a new dictionary. I didn't realize that the definition of machine gun was any gun that could be easily modified to accept a magazine bigger that 12 rounds regardless of whether such a magazine actually exists. Ha jokes on the ATF. Everyone outside DC can buy a "machine gun" without a tax stamp or a form signed by their cheif of police.

    If anyones looking for me I'll be bitterly clinging to my God and my "machine gun":celebrate

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    Well, duh - he tried to register an evil semi-auto. Of course they rejected it. Someone should flood the DC market with Smith 460/500 magnums, .454 Casulls, and the like. Maybe then they'll reconsider.

    -ljp

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    Wow, when I thought they couldn't do anything any more stupid. Back to court they go, DC will spend millions to lose again. Is this where their stupidity gets machine guns un-infringed?
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    The problem with the HELLER decision is that Heller himself made the fatal mistake of stipulating that all he wanted to do was REGISTER his gun. He tied SCOTUS's hands on how broad their ruling could be and left it up to DC to figure out what "Register" meant. Of course, Heller was just try to come off as a reasonable, co-operative person and look where it got him. Metaphorically, he(Heller) tried to appease the terrorists. He gave DC an inch and they are taking him for a mile.

    I do hope that they(DC) somehow, get legally slapped down hard in some fashion. Does the Supreme Court have any "contempt of court" type recourses? Can they order a takeover of the issue by a court administrator or the Congress? Can they have the parties(Mayor, Police Chief, etc.) arrested for non-compliance with their court ruling and jailed until the "infringement" stops? Don't know, just asking.

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    4armed Architect wrote:
    The problem with the HELLER decision is that Heller himself made the fatal mistake of stipulating that all he wanted to do was REGISTER his gun. He tied SCOTUS's hands on how broad their ruling could be and left it up to DC to figure out what "Register" meant. Of course, Heller was just try to come off as a reasonable, co-operative person and look where it got him. Metaphorically, he(Heller) tried to appease the terrorists. He gave DC an inch and they are taking him for a mile.
    No this is all part of the "The Plan". Baby steps and more baby steps. We'll get there eventually.

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    Wow. My Glock 22 (15 rounds) would be considered a machine gun in D.C.

    I thought that the legislation passed by the D.C. city council stipulated that any handgunthat held less than 12 rounds, such as the one he tried to register (which only held 7), could be registered. I did not see or hear anything about semi auto or bottom feeding handguns being prohibited. Looks like they're just making up rules as they go.

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    He was rejected because he didn't bring his weapon with him, which his attorney advised him to do (not bring his weapon).

    http://www.myfoxdc.com/myfox/pages/H...p;pageId=1.1.1

    And recent video here: http://www.myfoxdc.com/myfox/MyFox/p...p;locale=EN-US

    Apparently, Mr. Heller told the news reporter that he might be running for Congress to replace Congresswoman Elanor Holms Norton's seat. "Recent Video" link above is my cite.

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    *4armed Architect wrote:
    The problem with the HELLER decision is that Heller himself made the fatal mistake of stipulating that all he wanted to do was REGISTER his gun. He tied SCOTUS's hands on how broad their ruling could be and left it up to DC to figure out what "Register" meant. Of course, Heller was just try to come off as a reasonable, co-operative person and look where it got him. Metaphorically, he(Heller) tried to appease the terrorists. He gave DC an inch and they are taking him for a mile.

    I do hope that they(DC) somehow, get legally slapped down hard in some fashion. Does the Supreme Court have any "contempt of court" type recourses? Can they order a takeover of the issue by a court administrator or the Congress? Can they have the parties(Mayor, Police Chief, etc.) arrested for non-compliance with their court ruling and jailed until the "infringement" stops? Don't know, just asking.
    Prefacing my statements here: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play on on TV. I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

    Having said that, I think this may simply be the next step in the long-term strategy to restore gun rights to all areas deprived of them, and in restoring the full scope of rights. Heller vs DC (round 1) was a important, pivotal victory in this strategy. We are not going to get a huge sweeping victory that strikes down crappy gun laws nationwide with one fell swoop. It's going to happen one step at a time, and I think the lawyers knew that and are simply fighting it one step at a time.

    First, we got the foundation: Heller vs DC (part 1?)

    I think next we'll see cases on (in no particular order):

    -restriction of certain firearm types: Heller vs DC (part 2?)
    -Incorporation of Heller vs DC (current cases in Chicago, San Fran, etc.)
    -right to carry (CC and/or OC), based on Scalia's judgement that you have the right to possess in case of confrontation (not all confrontations occur at home)
    -registration/ownership licensing (If it is a right, you don't need a license to exercise a right ~ usually)

    I was discussing Heller vs DC with a buddy, and being a military history buff I likened the struggle to restore gun rights to the Pacific Campaign of WWII. Heller was our Midway, a resounding victory that has changed the direction of the war, however we still have a lot of island-hopping ahead of us.

    --RedKnightt--

    Zombie Squad has it right: “We hold fast to the belief that if you are prepared for a scenario where the walking corpses of your family and neighbors are trying to eat you alive, you will be prepared for almost anything.”

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    The current law apparently says, "Sawed-off shotguns, machine guns and short-barreled rifles are still prohibited." and you have to go back to some law in passed back in the 70's to see that DC defines any pistol that can be easily modified to accept a magazine bigger than 12 whether or not such a magazine exists (ie your Glock and my Taurus) as a machine gun.

    I guess the federal court that originally rules on this is supposed to issue an injunction based on the SCOTUS ruling and then what they are doing will actually become illegal.

    I'm sure we can look forward to plenty of taxpayer money being spent to keep DC residents from having 2nd amendment rights. In the end, the 82nd airborne division will probably have to escort Mr. Heller to get his permit.

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    If you get a chance, take a look at the information the MPD is giving out. I attached the requirements to this post. You can find the other 2 documents at http://www.myfoxdc.com/myfox/pages/H...p;pageId=1.1.1


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    Anyone living in DC want to try registering Kel-Tec's PLR-16? Better bring that 100 round drum with you.



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    Here's the text from the original article:

    DC Rejects Handgun Application

    WASHINGTON (WUSA) -- District residents can start registering their guns today. But at least one very high profile application was already rejected.

    Dick Heller is the man who brought the lawsuit against the District's 32-year-old ban on handguns. He was among the first in line Thursday morning to apply for a handgun permit.

    But when he tried to register his semi-automatic weapon, he says he was rejected. He says his gun has seven bullet clip. Heller says the City Council legislation allows weapons with fewer than eleven bullets in the clip. A spokesman for the DC Police says the gun was a bottom-loading weapon, and according to their interpretation, all bottom-loading guns are outlawed because they are grouped with machine guns.

    Besides obtaining paperwork to buy new handguns, residents also can register firearms they've had illegally under a 180-day amnesty period.

    Though residents will be allowed to begin applying for handgun permits, city officials have said the entire process could take weeks or months.

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    I understood the new DC registration/permit scheme to allow only revolvers and not semi-auto pistols of any capacity. I may be wrong.

    -ljp

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    4armed Architect wrote:
    The problem with the HELLER decision is that Heller himself made the fatal mistake of stipulating that all he wanted to do was REGISTER his gun. He tied SCOTUS's hands on how broad their ruling could be and left it up to DC to figure out what "Register" meant. Of course, Heller was just try to come off as a reasonable, co-operative person and look where it got him. Metaphorically, he(Heller) tried to appease the terrorists. He gave DC an inch and they are taking him for a mile.

    I do hope that they(DC) somehow, get legally slapped down hard in some fashion. Does the Supreme Court have any "contempt of court" type recourses? Can they order a takeover of the issue by a court administrator or the Congress? Can they have the parties(Mayor, Police Chief, etc.) arrested for non-compliance with their court ruling and jailed until the "infringement" stops? Don't know, just asking.
    Its not a fatal mistake so much as a legal strategy. You can only deal with so much in one case.

    The next 100 or 1000 cases will flesh out the right.

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    is DCkeeping any statistics tracking the number of criminals who have filed the necessary paperwork to own a gun in that wonderful city?



    the only response I hear from the liberals: the sound of crickets.....

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    Stand-by for Heller II

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    With all this talk of bullet capacity, I'm thinking revolvers aren't safe for registration either. Hell, even with a 5-chamber gun, you could probably stack 4 or 5 bullets in each chamber...

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    ilbob wrote:
    4armed Architect wrote:
    The problem with the HELLER decision is that Heller himself made the fatal mistake of stipulating that all he wanted to do was REGISTER his gun. He tied SCOTUS's hands on how broad their ruling could be and left it up to DC to figure out what "Register" meant. Of course, Heller was just try to come off as a reasonable, co-operative person and look where it got him. Metaphorically, he(Heller) tried to appease the terrorists. He gave DC an inch and they are taking him for a mile.

    I do hope that they(DC) somehow, get legally slapped down hard in some fashion. Does the Supreme Court have any "contempt of court" type recourses? Can they order a takeover of the issue by a court administrator or the Congress? Can they have the parties(Mayor, Police Chief, etc.) arrested for non-compliance with their court ruling and jailed until the "infringement" stops? Don't know, just asking.
    Its not a fatal mistake so much as a legal strategy. You can only deal with so much in one case.

    The next 100 or 1000 cases will flesh out the right.
    Well, "fatal" was probably a bit over the top in my description, but I hope you are being sarcastic predicting 100-1000 cases to "flesh out the right"(RTKBA). Given that each case takes more than a year(me being overly optimistic), I guess my great grandchildren might know just how much infringing the government will get to do. I begin to shudder when I think about how future Justices will clarify infringement.

    I think the court would have gone further(in protecting 2A rights) if Heller hadn't stipulated that all he wanted was to get his gun registered/licensed so he could keep it in his home . I think a bigger opportunity was missed. In the last paragraph of the Syllabus of the decision(D.C. v Heller), on p. 3, the SCOTUS states:

    "Because Heller conceded at oral argument the D.C. licensing law is permissable if it is not enforced arbitrarily and capriciously, the Court assumes that a license will satisfy his prayer for relief and does not address the licensing requirement."


    One can read the complete D.C. v Heller decision at the following URL:

    http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/wp-cont.../06/07-290.pdf

    Maybe, though, that was the only way to get Kenndy's vote at the time. While the ruling was narrow and I think it was a small gain, had the Court gone against Heller, the loss would have been huge. We came within 1 vote of individuals pretty much losing the 2A right to keep and bear arms in the USA - FOREVER! So, if narrow was what was needed to win and keep that right alive, I'll take it.

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    So, how do they define a "bottom loading gun," can I just hold it sideways, cause that makes it a side loading gun. Would i need to move the sights?

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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    With all this talk of bullet capacity, I'm thinking revolvers aren't safe for registration either. Hell, even with a 5-chamber gun, you could probably stack 4 or 5 bullets in each chamber...
    I already posted this in another thread...

    http://www.horstheld.com/0-pinfire.htm

    "30-shot pin fire revolver made in France, no serial #, maker's name or proof stamps, cal. 7mm. 6" over and under barrels with dovetail front sight."



    "
    French pinfire revolver, a very rare 12-shot 9mm, completely unmarked to avoid paying royalties to Lefaucheux"

    "
    Riffelmann, Solingen made and Solingen proofed 12-shot-pinfire revolver" (two of them)

    "12-shot-revolver, serial # 16640, cal. 7mm, 4¾" round barrel with fixed sight, "
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    I think the point in the Heller case was exactly what the Architect said: it's better to win a small battle than lose a large one.

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    Pointman wrote:
    I think the point in the Heller case was exactly what the Architect said: it's better to win a small battle than lose a large one.
    Right on point. Considering that the decision was 5-4 I think the size of the bite was about as large as possible. Give it 10 years and another deliberate bite will be possible. Same way you eat an elephant.

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