A DISCLAIMER

Liko81 · Jul 18, 2008

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This forum has a lot of good information in it regarding laws, and what it doesn't have can generally be found with a quick trip to Google. However, there is one VERY important and inconvenient truth that I do not think is mentioned often enough.

Regardless of any laws, pre-emption, or constitutional right to carry a gun, if a cop thinks you're going to jail, he's usually right.

Simply put:

You MAY beat the rap, but you WON'T beat the ride.

You can quote the state pre-emption statute verbatim, along with state laws specifically stating you have a right to carry openly, and federal law allowing you to travel with a gun in the car. It will not make a lick of difference if the officer wants to arrest you. Yes, it's a false arrest, yes, you will probably be cleared, and yes, you now have a free pass to show the department what actual and punitive damages as well as"reasonable attorney's fees" for malicious prosecution look like. However, you MUST ask yourself, "is it worth disrupting your life at this moment?" If you are arrested, kiss the next 6 hours of your life goodbye, at the very least. Get arrested on Friday evening and your weekend will be spent in a holding cell waiting to see a judge.

In some jurisdictions the disregard for State/federal law is systemic; for instance the city of Garland, TX, a suburb of Dallas, will arrest and prosecute individuals who carry a concealed weapon in their car without a permit, totally ignoring TxPC 46.02 which specifically makes an exception for that very activity. And this is Texas;such policyis more common in some other states, as evidenced by reports of police behavior. You could very well find yourself having to defend your behavior in court, and may even have to appeal. This must be considered when exercising a right in a jurisdiction that doesn't want you to do so.

So, in conclusion, it is your right, and laws may exist to recognize it. But if you don't want anytrouble,DO NOT rely on the written word. Call the State Troopers' department (sometimes it's the DPS, other times the DMV, sometimes they're their own agency) for every state you plan on driving through on your nextroad trip, and ask them what their policy is regarding carry of firearms, and whether they know of any jurisdictions that are stricter than they are. It doesn't matter how illegal their enforcement policy is; you have to ask yourself if exercising your rights is worth missing that big concert, or a sibling's wedding, or whatever else you're heading to, should you get pulled over in a city that openly bucks State law.

Now, before I get flamed for sounding defeatist or statist, let me disclaim the disclaimer. People here stand up for their rights, are arrested for it, and fight it. I applaud and encourage it with my every breath. WhatI want to discourage is the inference that, because it's your right and protected by Constitutional, Federal and State law, you can't be touched. That is an inference easily gained by casually reading some threads where questions about legality are asked. Nothing is further from the truth as those on this board will attest, and if you'd rather show up to be best man at your brother's wedding than be in a holding cell that weekend, that simply must be taken into consideration when deciding to OC or otherwise have your gun handy on the way there.

David.Car · Jul 18, 2008

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Arrested for doing nothing wrong... Well that sounds like a pay check if you have the right lawyer.

Liko81 · Jul 18, 2008

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David.Car wrote:

Arrested for doing nothing wrong... Well that sounds like a pay check if you have the right lawyer.

Maybe a few months from now, yeah. But,your wedding's tomorrow andyou're in a holding cell till Monday cause a cop in Garland decided to play tough-guy. That's my point; if you have somewhere you really need to be, you have to consider valor, specifically its better part.

Another point, lawsuits take a while.you're short NOW; rent and bills are due andyou can't pay them cause that money was spent on bail. You could lose your house paying for your lawyer.IfIjust say "it's legal" like most do, nobody who reads that will consider the possibility ofbeing arrested for it and having to go through the expense of defending yourself, even if that expense can be recouped.

Decoligny · Jul 18, 2008

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David.Car wrote:

Arrested for doing nothing wrong... Well that sounds like a pay check if you have the right lawyer.

But like he said, is it worth working (sitting in jail) through your brother's wedding to get said paycheck. It is simply a matter of knowing the risks and doing a cost/benefit analysis every time you Open Carry.

If you know that the Police in a certain town will arrest anyone carrying a gun openly, and you have the time, money, and patience to follow through with the associated consequences, do so.

If you know that the Police in a certain town will arrest anyone carrying a gun openly, and you don't have the time, money, or patience, then choose your battles wisely and choose not to exercise your right to carry in that particular place at that particular time.

Each person must count the cost that they are willing and able to pay to forward the fight for the Right to Carry.

Luke 14:28 - "For which of you, intending to build a tower, does notsit down and count the cost, whether he may have enough to complete it: Lest perhaps, after he has laid the foundation and is not able to fininsh, all those seeing begin to mock him."

specforces78-81 · Jul 18, 2008

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Yes - this is all so very true - I was in law enforcement for a time - in 2 differnt states - I ah the job of arresting law abbiding people in sel defense issues - until Da cleared them - heard many of times "its the law" - "officer you are wrong" - all I could do was say " It will all be taken care of down at the station " - sorry people it is sad & true & now -I carry every day since 1985 - & yes where I live police hate the I dea - I can do this - & when anything happens around here in this small town - I am the 1st. to get questioned . Please stay safe & practice - for me I will con't. to be the sheepdog - for those who wish to be sheep !!!

bobernet · Jul 18, 2008

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Liko81 wrote:

This forum has a lot of good information in it regarding laws, and what it doesn't have can generally be found with a quick trip to Google. However, there is one VERY important and inconvenient truth that I do not think is mentioned often enough.

Regardless of any laws, pre-emption, or constitutional right to carry a gun, if a cop thinks you're going to jail, he's usually right.

It's not mentioned often (enough), because it doesn't happen often. There are numerous reports of people being detained, questioned, "harassed," etc. There are very very very few reports of people spending nights in jail.

With all due respect, Liko, you don't even live in a state where open carry is a possibility. Those of us who do, and who open carry on a frequent basis, know that there's a big difference between what most on here would consider a "negative encounter" and actually being arrested and thrown in jail.

Even of the relatively few instances of people being arrested, a good percentage had extenuating circumstances beyond just merely open carrying. Interfering with an investigation, wiretap violations, refusing to ID when stopped, etc have all come up. I'm not arguing the legitimacy of those charges, but the fact remains that there was more going on than "just" open carrying.

If you have a big wedding on Monday morning, then Sunday afternoon may not be the best time to "have it out" with the local police. Merely open carrying doesn't generally rise to that level of conflict, though.

Liko81 · Jul 18, 2008

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bobernet wrote:

Liko81 wrote:

This forum has a lot of good information in it regarding laws, and what it doesn't have can generally be found with a quick trip to Google. However, there is one VERY important and inconvenient truth that I do not think is mentioned often enough.

Regardless of any laws, pre-emption, or constitutional right to carry a gun, if a cop thinks you're going to jail, he's usually right.

Click to expand...

It's not mentioned often (enough), because it doesn't happen often. There are numerous reports of people being detained, questioned, "harassed," etc. There are very very very few reports of people spending nights in jail.

With all due respect, Liko, you don't even live in a state where open carry is a possibility. Those of us who do, and who open carry on a frequent basis, know that there's a big difference between what most on here would consider a "negative encounter" and actually being arrested and thrown in jail.

I do understand that I live in a CC-only, permit-only state. To that,I say this: even in non-permissive Texas, OC is allowed in your home and on your land. Talk to any DPD officer and he'll tell you if he sees you mowing your lawn with a gun on your hip he will arrest you. And I reiterate thatcarry of a concealed handgun while in your car was specifically made legal in 2007. Talk to a Garland PD officer and he'll tell you he will arrest anyone found with a gun in their car who does not havea CHL.

In gold-star states, yes, you are totally right. However, there are only 13 of those. Over to my eastin Louisiana, or up in Nebraska,you start seeing the same thing with public OC that I see with legal carry in Texas; jurisdictions will thumb their nose at pre-emption and State law and enforce city ordinance to the contrary, and it doesn't matter that they're making a false arrest because the case has to get out of the city or county before they can be told off by the appeals or state supreme courts.

With all due respect in return, you live in a state where it's great to be an OCer. With the exception of one well-known county, permitless OC is totally legal and the cops know it well. That is not true for most of the country, and if you need proof lookone state over to your east or G-d forbid west. Up to your north in Oregon members are having LEO and local jurisdiction problems as well. Across the Deep South, one of the more stereotypical run-friendly regions, there is not a single gold-star state to be foundand in fact the region has five out of six "non-permissive" states. Other than the fact that, hey, it's Texas, where elseis there

, I'd love to be in Arizona, Virginia or Nevada. But, it's Texas, so I'm going to focus my efforts on improving Texas, while at the same time cautioningmy fellow Texans and otherswho face similar LEO attitudes that LEOs in these states can and will (or at leastare likely to)give you a serious run through the wringer even for totally legal activity, and if you choose to fight the battle it is wise to pick the time and place.

David.Car · Jul 18, 2008

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Decoligny wrote:

David.Car wrote:

Arrested for doing nothing wrong... Well that sounds like a pay check if you have the right lawyer.

Click to expand...

If you know that the Police in a certain town will arrest anyone carrying a gun openly, and you don't have the time, money, or patience, then choose your battles wisely and choose not to exercise your right to carry in that particular place at that particular time.

So you give up your rights because there is the remote possibility of it inconveniencing you for a day?

That is fairly ridiculous. As already said the number of people actually jailed (driven down and booked) is ridiculously low. Count on one hand for thousands of people with thousands of OC experiences low.

So why let that change your mind on practicing what is a right you currently have? If you don't want to OC for some specific reason of your own, than great, but don't let the remote chance of a police officer ILLEGALLY detaining you be the reason.

If you allow a police force to intimidate you into not practicing a legally given right, than you are just giving up, and allowing that intimidation continue.

Now if you end up being that one in thousands that gets illegally arrested? Well, sure, you are inconvenienced for a little while, but in the end, you and your lawyer will be able to put enough of a hurt on that police department that there is an even better chance that a violation of someones OC rights will not be done again.

Edit: Just to be clear, I completely disagree with the whole principal of this thread. The fact that the title is in allCAPSLOCK!!! and titled aDISCLAIMER!!! is very annoying.The potential for anew viewer to end up reading thisand than tobe turned off of the idea of OC because of an apparently missleaded (as far as OC goes) opinion is also annoying. If you want to be intimidated into not carrying, that is your perogative, but don't try and force it onto others, because it is just an unwarranted fear.

Again, don't let the threat or intimidation of arrest cow you away from using your rights. The odds of you being arrested while OC in a state that allows it are absolutely ridiculously low. RIDICULOUSLY.

Their is a much greater potential for being harrassed or spoken too, but that is at worse a30 minute time waste.

Liko81 · Jul 18, 2008

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David.Car wrote:

Decoligny wrote:

David.Car wrote:

Arrested for doing nothing wrong... Well that sounds like a pay check if you have the right lawyer.

Click to expand...

If you know that the Police in a certain town will arrest anyone carrying a gun openly, and you don't have the time, money, or patience, then choose your battles wisely and choose not to exercise your right to carry in that particular place at that particular time.

Click to expand...

So you give up your rights because there is the remote possibility of it inconveniencing you for a day?

That is fairly ridiculous. As already said the number of people actually jailed (driven down and booked) is ridiculously low. Count on one hand for thousands of people with thousands of OC experiences low.

So why let that change your mind on practicing what is a right you currently have? If you don't want to OC for some specific reason of your own, than great, but don't let the remote chance of a police officer ILLEGALLY detaining you be the reason.

If you allow a police force to intimidate you into not practicing a legally given right, than you are just giving up, and allowing that intimidation continue.

Now if you end up being that one in thousands that gets illegally arrested? Well, sure, you are inconvenienced for a little while, but in the end, you and your lawyer will be able to put enough of a hurt on that police department that there is an even better chance that a violation of someones OC rights will not be done again.

Edit: Just to be clear, I completely disagree with the whole principal of this thread. The fact that the title is in allCAPSLOCK!!! and titled aDISCLAIMER!!! is very annoying.The potential for anew viewer to end up reading thisand than tobe turned off of the idea of OC because of an apparently missleaded (as far as OC goes) opinion is also annoying. If you want to be intimidated into not carrying, that is your perogative, but don't try and force it onto others, because it is just an unwarranted fear.

Again, don't let the threat or intimidation of arrest cow you away from using your rights. The odds of you being arrested while OC in a state that allows it are absolutely ridiculously low. RIDICULOUSLY.

Their is a much greater potential for being harrassed or spoken too, but that is at worse a30 minute time waste.

Taken under consideration. I find it kind of ironic that the twoposters against what I'm saying are from states where OC is better received, and that the two people who at least see the point are from states where it is less well received.

There is a definite misunderstanding of my purpose in making this argument. I don't want ANYONE to give up on OC because they might be harassed and/or falsely arrested for it. I DO want people to be aware that it can and does happen, largely in the 39 states that aren't gold-star and thushavesmaller showings on these forums.

For you to sit in Washington, an "anomalous" state but one where nevertheless the LEOs are generally well-educated as to OC legality,and tell a forumlurker from Nebraska or Kansas,also "anomalous" states on the mapbut for very different reasons, thatOC where legal is perfectly fine and if they arrest you they're wrong,is probably going to go badly, for aforementioned reasons. States less enlightened than Virginia and Washington have been known to illegally "crack down" on legal OC (and even in those states you're having some trouble), and it is harder to sue a police department in some states than others. So, even granted that in most OC states it is unlikely thatsomeone will be arrested for it, if it happensthat personmay find themself out thousands and unable to recoup it, on your advice.

I'm not saying "don't do it" and have never said that. I'm saying "know what you might be getting into", which is is not always apparent in the reader's casefrom reading accounts of encounters in some other state.

Citizen · Jul 18, 2008

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Liko81 has a good point.

A new member might not fully get the idea that even in areas that are supposedly safe for OC, you might still get "jacked up". Ask Legba and Chet Szymecki about arrests, and that Boy Scout in the northeast. Wasn't there also one inCalifornia, ayoung Marine? Ask DreQuo about being in area you think is totally safe.

Liko81 may not present the full picture, e.g. the ratios of no-encounter outings vs detentions vs arrests, but he's got a point and he's concerned about it. Veteran OCers have more familiarity with the situation. Perhaps we don't make mention of the possibility of arrest as frequently as we should.

deepdiver · Jul 18, 2008

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Citizen wrote:

Liko81 has a good point.

A new member might not fully get the idea that even in areas that are supposedly safe for OC, you might still get "jacked up". Ask Legba and Chet Szymecki about arrests, and that Boy Scout in the northeast. Wasn't there also one inCalifornia, ayoung Marine? Ask DreQuo about being in area you think is totally safe.

Liko81 may not present the full picture, e.g. the ratios of no-encounter outings vs detentions vs arrests, but he's got a point and he's concerned about it. Veteran OCers have more familiarity with the situation. Perhaps we don't make mention of the possibility of arrest as frequently as we should.

+1

richarcm · Jul 19, 2008

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Moral of the story....Keep up with all of the laws, realize that there are crooked cops and depts, and make friends with lawyers.

Orygunner · Jul 21, 2008

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richarcm wrote:

Moral of the story....Keep up with all of the laws, realize that there are crooked cops and depts, and make friends with lawyers.

To realize there are crooked cops and departments, people should also keep in mind that most of them are NOT crooked.

I say we should allexpect the best, but prepare for the worst.Doesn't that mirror the reasonthat why we carry a firearm to begin with? We don't run through self defense scenarios because we expect every person we approach is a criminal, but we want to be prepared if we are attacked by a real bad guy.

If we set our expectations that every police encounter is going to turn into a trampling of rights, matching silver bracelets, and a free ride in a cruiser, we just might get what we expect, and possibly even worse.

I agree with the OP that if the officer has already decided you're going to jail, chances are that you will be. That's not a reason to assume that's the intention ofa LEO before the encounter even begins.

I agree with richarcm, we should be experts inlocal firearms laws. We should realize there ARE crooked cops and prepare for those rare encounters so we can know what to do if thesituation occurs.

...But make friends with lawyers? eww! do I HAVE to? They're Icky.:uhoh:...
...Orygunner...

Anubis · Jul 21, 2008

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David.Car wrote:

Arrested for doing nothing wrong... Well that sounds like a pay check if you have the right lawyer.

True, but maybe the person who got arrested for a gun non-violation did something else wrong that triggered the LEO interaction. A traffic violation starts many of the LEO encounters reported both on OCDO and other fora. If I obey the traffic laws, I eliminate virtually all chance of negative LEO interactions while in the vehicle.

(Legba's situation had nothing to with a traffic offense, of course, but his unfortunate experience was unusual.)

richarcm · Jul 21, 2008

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Anubis wrote:

David.Car wrote:

Arrested for doing nothing wrong... Well that sounds like a pay check if you have the right lawyer.

Click to expand...

True, but maybe the person who got arrested for a gun non-violation did something else wrong that triggered the LEO interaction. A traffic violation starts many of the LEO encounters reported both on OCDO and other fora. If I obey the traffic laws, I eliminate virtually all chance of negative LEO interactions while in the vehicle.

(Legba's situation had nothing to with a traffic offense, of course, but his unfortunate experience was unusual.)

Not necessarily true. You have a higher likelihood of being targeted if you drive certain types of cars. I've owned a yellow mustang gt. It's not just about obeying the laws. Sometimes you become suspect without having done anything wrong.

bobernet · Jul 21, 2008

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Anubis wrote:

(Legba's situation had nothing to with a traffic offense, of course, but his unfortunate experience was unusual.)

Legba's been mentioned twice now, but it further illustrates my point. His arrest had nothing to do with OC at all. He wasn't open carrying. His arrest had to do with the crappy laws in Ohio about transporting weapons in a vehicle without a trunk by a person without a CCW.

The folks in PA were never booked.

Danbus was arrested for refusing to ID.

The guys in Oregon were arrested for recording police on a wiretap law.

In nearly every case of actual arrest, the person in question gets into a power struggle with police. Even in Chet's case where he was clearly in the right, he was given a couple opportunities to leave before he was actually arrested.

So my point remains, getting into a battle of wills with the cops the night before your wedding - probably a bad idea. Merely open carrying, and being willing to follow police orders (even if they're wrong) and filing a complaint later instead, very very very unlikely to result in an "arrest."

richarcm · Jul 22, 2008

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Everyone here is fairly smart. We should all, by now, realize that carrying a gun is either legal or illegal depending on where we live. However we should also realize that carrying, regardless of legality, is going to make people nervous....including cops. Rightfully so. When a cop has a gun you are pretty sure of their intentions and expertise. It is NOT the same when any one of us, especially if we are younger, are walking through a Walmart with a 45 on our hips. Legal or not, it's just not the same. That being sad everyone here knows that whenever we carry there is an obvious potential risk of running across nervous, uninformed and perhaps incredibly biased people and/or law enforcement. To the summarize everyone's thoughts....NO, if you are not breaking the law and you communicate intelligently with the police officer you should not have any problems. HOWEVER, to say that you should not or will not get questioned by a nervous police officer is obsurd. Their job is to protect and to serve. If they didn't try to prevent a crime of massive proportions from ocurring by merely conversing with the person in question....that would be incompetant. Whether or not a cop arrests you does NOT depend on the law or what laws you DID or did NOT break. It is completely up to THEIR discretion. It is up to the judge to rule whether or not you actually broke any. Point being, yes, a cop CAN arrest you if they think you are a danger to society. Is that a good thing, yes. Can it however be abused, yes.

Point being....whenever you CHOOSE to wear a gun on your hip for the entire world to see you CHOOSE to be at higher risk for LEO interaction and higher risk for POTENTIAL arrest. Agree with it or not. Like it or not. Regardless of what the law states. You CHOOSE to increase your chances of trouble with the po po.

To the OP's point....if you have a wedding tomorrow....maybe you should keep the gun at home.....just in case. Odds are probably better that you'll get in trouble wearing the gun than you will actually need the gun.

Venator · Jul 22, 2008

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Liko81 wrote:

This forum has a lot of good information in it regarding laws, and what it doesn't have can generally be found with a quick trip to Google. However, there is one VERY important and inconvenient truth that I do not think is mentioned often enough.

Regardless of any laws, pre-emption, or constitutional right to carry a gun, if a cop thinks you're going to jail, he's usually right.

Simply put:

You MAY beat the rap, but you WON'T beat the ride.

You can quote the state pre-emption statute verbatim, along with state laws specifically stating you have a right to carry openly, and federal law allowing you to travel with a gun in the car. It will not make a lick of difference if the officer wants to arrest you. Yes, it's a false arrest, yes, you will probably be cleared, and yes, you now have a free pass to show the department what actual and punitive damages as well as"reasonable attorney's fees" for malicious prosecution look like. However, you MUST ask yourself, "is it worth disrupting your life at this moment?" If you are arrested, kiss the next 6 hours of your life goodbye, at the very least. Get arrested on Friday evening and your weekend will be spent in a holding cell waiting to see a judge.

In some jurisdictions the disregard for State/federal law is systemic; for instance the city of Garland, TX, a suburb of Dallas, will arrest and prosecute individuals who carry a concealed weapon in their car without a permit, totally ignoring TxPC 46.02 which specifically makes an exception for that very activity. And this is Texas;such policyis more common in some other states, as evidenced by reports of police behavior. You could very well find yourself having to defend your behavior in court, and may even have to appeal. This must be considered when exercising a right in a jurisdiction that doesn't want you to do so.

So, in conclusion, it is your right, and laws may exist to recognize it. But if you don't want anytrouble,DO NOT rely on the written word. Call the State Troopers' department (sometimes it's the DPS, other times the DMV, sometimes they're their own agency) for every state you plan on driving through on your nextroad trip, and ask them what their policy is regarding carry of firearms, and whether they know of any jurisdictions that are stricter than they are. It doesn't matter how illegal their enforcement policy is; you have to ask yourself if exercising your rights is worth missing that big concert, or a sibling's wedding, or whatever else you're heading to, should you get pulled over in a city that openly bucks State law.

Now, before I get flamed for sounding defeatist or statist, let me disclaim the disclaimer. People here stand up for their rights, are arrested for it, and fight it. I applaud and encourage it with my every breath. WhatI want to discourage is the inference that, because it's your right and protected by Constitutional, Federal and State law, you can't be touched. That is an inference easily gained by casually reading some threads where questions about legality are asked. Nothing is further from the truth as those on this board will attest, and if you'd rather show up to be best man at your brother's wedding than be in a holding cell that weekend, that simply must be taken into consideration when deciding to OC or otherwise have your gun handy on the way there.

Disregard. This person is against or doesn't understand the open carry movement. LEO's can arrest you for ANYTHING, the reality is they usually don't arrest youfor the lawful open carry of a handgun. Exceptions yes, but for the thousands of hour a day that people open carry in this country, it's a small risk.

By all means if you can't handle the responsibility of exercising a RIGHT then don't, but don't repeat the same old propaganda that is so easily proved wrong.

Venator · Jul 22, 2008

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richarcm wrote:

Point being....whenever you CHOOSE to wear a gun on your hip for the entire world to see you CHOOSE to be at higher risk for LEO interaction and higher risk for POTENTIAL arrest. Agree with it or not. Like it or not. Regardless of what the law states. You CHOOSE to increase your chances of trouble with the po po.

For now.The whole idea of this site and OCing in general is to get to a point in this country where this doesn't happen, that the public and the LEO's are made aware of the legality of OC. That their friends and neighbors carry a weapon for self defense. To realize that people that OC are lawful, knowledgeable, intelligent, and generally good-looking.

Liko81 · Jul 22, 2008

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Venator wrote:

Disregard. This person is against or doesn't understand the open carry movement. LEO's can arrest you for ANYTHING, the reality is they usually don't arrest youfor the lawful open carry of a handgun. Exceptions yes, but for the thousands of hour a day that people open carry in this country, it's a small risk.

By all means if you can't handle the responsibility of exercising a RIGHT then don't, but don't repeat the same old propaganda that is so easily proved wrong.

:quirkyThere is a difference between choosing to exercise a right and having to defend it. The majority of Americans have neverserved in the military; are you saying thoseAmericans, who are unwilling or unable to volunteer to stand up and defend the Constitution,somehow don't deserve the rights afforded them? That's the whole reason a warrior chooses to fight; so that those behind him can go on with their lives.

Perhaps if I lay out what prompted this thread, it will explain my position. I got a rude awakening when shown the docket for Garland Municipal Court, showingseveral pending cases for"unlawful carry of a weapon".Short background; it is legal in Texas to conceal a handgun without a permit while in your vehicle; the statute covering UCW specifically excludes that situation. Garland doesn't give a flying flip and is pressing charges against people they catch with a gun in their glovebox and no CHL. I've been concealing in my car since I was shown the statute, and drive through Garland on a regular basis. :shock:Garland probably knows it's totally illegal. Why do they do it? Because even though they can't make the charge stick, they can use the opportunity to misinform and intimidate until they get their way in their fair city.

I continue to conceal a handgun in my car and drive through Garland, but had I not known Garland was bucking the State I would have been ill-prepared to confront the officer on the issue had I been pulled over for something minor. I'd have played the good CHL applicant, notified the officer that I was concealing, but lacking the plastic, the next thing I'd knowI wouldbe wearing the silver bracelets, hiring a lawyer, and out thousands of dollars for my criminal defense. In short, a willing exerciser of 2A rights turned into an unwilling defender of same.

Now that I knowwhat they're trying to do,what the Garland PD doesn't know won't hurt them, or me,till my plastic is in hand. My handgun is concealed in a place other than where I keep my insurance papers and where I'm not likely to need to reach for any purpose whatsoever during a stop. OTOH, I know what I'm getting into, and should I be pulled over for 5 miles over on 635 (which any Dallasite knows is a total BS stop) and being arrested because they found the gun, I will wholeheartedly defend my actions and the carry laws in general. Can't sayI didn't ask for it.

Scenarios like this happen every day across this country; that's why I posted this, capped the title, and bolded the main point. People need to know, not just State law, but local ordinance whether technically enforceable or not, and their own LEA's policy of education and enforcement (or counter-enforcement) of the law.

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