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Thread: Infiltrators In Our Midst?

  1. #1
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    From today's Washington Times:

    Undercover Maryland state troopers infiltrated three groups advocating peace and protesting the death penalty — attending meetings and sending reports on their activities to U.S. intelligence and military agencies, according to documents released Thursday. (emphasis added)

    You can read the whole story here:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...tivist-groups/
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  2. #2
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    Citizen wrote:
    From today's Washington Times:

    Undercover Maryland state troopers infiltrated three groups advocating peace and protesting the death penalty — attending meetings and sending reports on their activities to U.S. intelligence and military agencies, according to documents released Thursday. (emphasis added)

    You can read the whole story here:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...tivist-groups/
    i know two

    LEO229
    and
    johnny law


  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Executive Order 12333, paragraph 2.3?????? Collection of intelligence on US persons?????
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    Well......I can't say I'm surprised......welcome to the Police State of America.......

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    You know, I support the war in general and the death penalty, but I must ask: are groups advocating peace and protesting the death penalty the gravest threat to our national security that we face? Just asking...?
    If the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.--Samuel Adams as Candidus, Boston Gazette 20 Jan. 1772

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    I have a friend that would like buy a handgun, and maybe get a ccw license, but is scared of crap like this. He fears that just by owning a weapon, he might end up on some government watch list. In reality I guess he isn't far off. It's pretty sad that citizens are scared to exercise their rights because of fear from the government.

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    Or you can be a stand-up out spoken guy and walk point. Who wants to live in the state that y'all fear? Walk point. Do the best job that you can. A hero dies once gloriously while the traitors and cowards and PC apparatchiks die miserably a thousand times. Do you believe in your goodness?

  8. #8
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    trailblazer2003 wrote:
    I have a friend that would like buy a handgun, and maybe get a ccw license, but is scared of crap like this. He fears that just by owning a weapon, he might end up on some government watch list. In reality I guess he isn't far off. It's pretty sad that citizens are scared to exercise their rights because of fear from the government.
    Ya know, I've thought about the possibility that someone has a list of gun owners and is plotting to take them all away. But thenI think, if anyone honestly saw the sheer number of armed civilians in this country, would they think they really had a chance??
    Executive Order 12333, paragraph 2.3?????? Collection of intelligence on US persons?????
    +1




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    johnnyb wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    From today's Washington Times:

    Undercover Maryland state troopers infiltrated three groups advocating peace and protesting the death penalty — attending meetings and sending reports on their activities to U.S. intelligence and military agencies, according to documents released Thursday. (emphasis added)

    You can read the whole story here:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...tivist-groups/
    i know two

    [cops]
    johnnyb,

    You do understand that your unnecessarily hostile posts and your being first to point fingers make YOU the most likely agent provocatuer on the forum? Makes you the person most likely to be trying to provoke others into writing sympathetic things that wouldget them additional scrutiny?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  10. #10
    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    I can understand the MSP wanting to infiltate that group, they were advocating peace. Now that's a group you need to watch out for. Like, seriously, WTF?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    I remember watching a history channel thing talking about the cold war. One of the reasons Russia never thought to invade us was "all the Americans own guns. We knew we would have a serious problem trying to invade."

    And we all remember Red Dawn. . it was theoretical, but remember when the hispanic leader (I think from Cuba) told his soldiers to go get the list of gun owners. . track them down, get their weapons, and if some were missing to kill them.

    We scare more governments than our military! Haha.

    DreQo wrote:
    trailblazer2003 wrote:
    I have a friend that would like buy a handgun, and maybe get a ccw license, but is scared of crap like this. He fears that just by owning a weapon, he might end up on some government watch list. In reality I guess he isn't far off. It's pretty sad that citizens are scared to exercise their rights because of fear from the government.
    Ya know, I've thought about the possibility that someone has a list of gun owners and is plotting to take them all away. But thenI think, if anyone honestly saw the sheer number of armed civilians in this country, would they think they really had a chance??
    Executive Order 12333, paragraph 2.3?????? Collection of intelligence on US persons?????
    +1



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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Or you can be a stand-up out spoken guy and walk point. Who wants to live in the state that y'all fear? Walk point. Do the best job that you can. A hero dies once gloriously while the traitors and cowards and PC apparatchiks die miserably a thousand times. Do you believe in your goodness?
    I hear what you are saying, but some people don't want to take the chance and cause ripples. For some that was the way they were raised, and it will unlikely change. For some they gain strength seeing the good work others do, and start to fight for their rights. I do believe in my own goodness, and that there is plenty of good left in this cocuntry. We just need people to start realizing this and to start taking action.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Or you can be a stand-up out spoken guy and walk point. Who wants to live in the state that y'all fear? Walk point. Do the best job that you can. A hero dies once gloriously while the traitors and cowards and PC apparatchiks die miserably a thousand times. Do you believe in your goodness?
    I like that perspective, Doug.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Citizen wrote:
    johnnyb wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    From today's Washington Times:

    Undercover Maryland state troopers infiltrated three groups advocating peace and protesting the death penalty — attending meetings and sending reports on their activities to U.S. intelligence and military agencies, according to documents released Thursday. (emphasis added)

    You can read the whole story here:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...tivist-groups/
    i know two

    [cops]
    johnnyb,

    You do understand that your unnecessarily hostile posts and your being first to point fingers make YOU the most likely agent provocatuer on the forum? Makes you the person most likely to be trying to provoke others into writing sympathetic things that wouldget them additional scrutiny?
    not sure what you're trying to say.

    should i not say anything provocative because i might be put in johnny laws database, or he might put me 6 feet under like he himself has said hes done several times...?

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    falcon1 wrote:
    You know, I support the war in general and the death penalty, but I must ask: are groups advocating peace and protesting the death penalty the gravest threat to our national security that we face? Just asking...?



    Absolutely. Whatgreater threat to the government is there than people that don't toe the party line? Let's get real now, we all know that only a terrorist wouldn't support the "war on tearUH".

    /sarcasm


    Oh and Johnny Bliss isn't a spy or a provoker of any kind. He's just stupid, and, while good intentioned and often right, quite frankly sucks at getting his opinion across in a educated manner.

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    falcon1 wrote:
    You know, I support the war in general and the death penalty, but I must ask: are groups advocating peace and protesting the death penalty the gravest threat to our national security that we face? Just asking...?



    Absolutely. Whatgreater threat to the government is there than people that don't toe the party line? Let's get real now, we all know that only a terrorist wouldn't support the "war on tearUH".

    /sarcasm


    Oh and Johnny Bliss isn't a spy or a provoker of any kind. He's just stupid, and, while good intentioned and often right, quite frankly sucks at getting his opinion across in a educated manner.
    always right

  17. #17
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    johnnyb wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    falcon1 wrote:
    You know, I support the war in general and the death penalty, but I must ask: are groups advocating peace and protesting the death penalty the gravest threat to our national security that we face? Just asking...?



    Absolutely. Whatgreater threat to the government is there than people that don't toe the party line? Let's get real now, we all know that only a terrorist wouldn't support the "war on tearUH".

    /sarcasm


    Oh and Johnny Bliss isn't a spy or a provoker of any kind. He's just stupid, and, while good intentioned and often right, quite frankly sucks at getting his opinion across in a educated manner.
    always right


    I think once in a blue more is more accurate, but I was giving youthe benefit of a doubt. :quirky

  18. #18
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    johnnyb wrote:
    SNIP not sure what you're trying to say.

    should i not say anything provocative because i might be put in johnny laws database, or he might put me 6 feet under like he himself has said hes done several times...?
    Just ease up on the harsh, personal attacks is all.

    It reflects poorly on you.And it harms your credibility far more than itdiscomforts Johnny Law.(He's a cop. Been called all kinds of names before. The only way you'll give him even a pause is if you are somebody he respects.)

    Focus on contributing yourknowledge. We really do want to hear it. Its much more helpful to us.Sorta like Robert Redford said to Paul Newman inThe Sting, "I already know how to get drunk!" We already know how to cuss.

    What areas of rights, freedom, history, OC, law, etc. are you good at or knowledgeable on? That's where your contributions would have the most value.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  19. #19
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    Citizen wrote:
    johnnyb wrote:
    SNIP not sure what you're trying to say.

    should i not say anything provocative because i might be put in johnny laws database, or he might put me 6 feet under like he himself has said hes done several times...?
    Just ease up on the harsh, personal attacks is all.

    It reflects poorly on you.And it harms your credibility far more than itdiscomforts Johnny Law. (He's a cop. Been called all kinds of names before. The only way you'll give him even a pause is if you are somebody he respects.)

    Focus on contributing yourknowledge. We really do want to hear it. Its much more helpful to us.Sorta like Robert Redford said to Paul Newman inThe Sting, "I already know how to get drunk!" We already know how to cuss.

    What areas of rights, freedom, history, OC, law, etc. are you good at or knowledgeable on? That's where your contributions would have the most value.
    maybe they need to know people don't like them every once in a while.

    despise is a better word, but still not harsh enough

    i really don't care and i don't think it matters if it reflects poorly on me, because i don't want to be friends with anyone who likes LE (today's LE)

  20. #20
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    Tess wrote:
    Executive Order 12333, paragraph 2.3?????? Collection of intelligence on US persons?????

    EO 12333 does not apply to MSP...however, just because they sent the information to the IC, does not mean the IC accepted the information, because of EO 12333

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    I'll admit! I'm an infiltrator! I work for a super secret organization that is determined to bring in total rule of a despotic alien race. Working in conjunction with the UN, the US Government, and of course the Illuminati, via Moscow we will soon take over all of Earth, and create a puppet government ran by Rosie O'Donnel and a Russian to be named later (possibly chosen through a lottery.)

    Human beings will work for the greater cause of galactic peace and harmony. Or be destroyed.

    Please don't hate me though. I had to do it for the safety of my pet rock.

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    Why send peoploe in "undercover"??

    These groups would welcome them anyway......

    Heck, let's start sending people to church undercover, I think I heard some pretty good Anti-Government and Anti-American stuff from a Rev. Wright, and Rev, J. Jackson......

  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    SIGguy229 wrote:
    Tess wrote:
    Executive Order 12333, paragraph 2.3?????? Collection of intelligence on US persons?????
    EO 12333 does not apply to MSP...however, just because they sent the information to the IC, does not mean the IC accepted the information, because of EO 12333
    That makes sense. I'm pretty sure there are severe penalties for collection on US persons -- I worked with someone a few years ago who ended up testifying in front of congress after an allegation of such.

    Too bad the MSP don't know better.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    I'm not sure that I can find anything worng with they infiltrating the groups and after reading the article it appears that the reports said that they had no illegal or disruptive tactics going on. If this was all the report said then I suppose that the infiltration was actually good. One of the leaders was palced on a terrorism watch list so was it because of what was discovered at the meetings or something different.

    I really think this report is being blown out of proportions and most groups like these would probably welcome the police sitting in on the meetings. It appears that the police did not interfere with the meetings or the protests. When they passed the information on up looks like it got misinterpreted either accidently or purposefully but I think this is much ado about nothing. How about if they apply the same tactics to some of the gangs, would you feel the same way?


    BTW - No one has to infiltrate anything on here as it is open to all but there are a few on here that definitely would cause consideration of being put on some kind of watch list. :shock:

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    johnnyb wrote:
    i really don't care and i don't think it matters if it reflects poorly on me, because i don't want to be friends with anyone who likes LE (today's LE)
    See, and that was unecessary. Not all LE are bad. I personally know several great friends in LE who actively support the right to keep and bear arms. They support it to the point of taking groups of students at the University on trips to he range, let them(students) shoot their (the officers) ammo and weapons, teach them (students) about firearm safety, and educate them on the process of obtaining their own weapon. These officers oppose the university ban on weapons, and are really great cops.



    Unless you specifically meant that you don't want to be friends with someone who likes the bad cops, which is a bit different.

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