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Thread: Cheesehead mom is OK with open carry at idaho zoo - says it "desensitiz kids to guns"

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    I wonder if she knew it was lawful to OC on foot in Wisconsin?

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    Gun advocates pack heat at Zoo Boise



    Story Created: Jul 19, 2008 at 4:29 PM MDT

    Story Updated: Jul 19, 2008 at 7:44 PM MDT

    By Blake McCoy
    url] Video [/url]
    BOISE - A group of Treasure Valley residents brought their hand guns to Zoo Boise, wearing their Second Amendment rights on their belt straps for all to see.

    About a dozen gun owners took advantage of Idaho's open carry laws which allow them to carry guns in public as long as they are in plain view and remain holstered.

    "I don't know that we're trying to make a statement," says Eric Bauer, who came to the zoo with his wife, three kids, and gun on his belt. "Maybe if anything we're trying to educate the public as to what they're rights are."

    Bauer and his wife both were carrying guns. Since Bauer's three kids aren't yet 18 and can't legally carry a handgun, they carried knives on their belt straps instead.

    Gun advocates said they organized this event at Zoo Boise because it is public property and they can't be kicked off.

    "If you don't exercise your rights, you're gonna loose your rights," says Bauer

    But for one out of state family visiting Idaho, guns at the zoo came as a bit of a surprise.

    "To me I think it gives kids the idea that guns are OK and I think that they're going to be desensitized," says Anji Robertson who was visiting from Madison, WI with her husband and three kids.

    These gun owners say education is key for anyone owning a handgun and they came out to show that the Second Amendment lives strong in the Gem State.

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    The whole "packing heat" phrase is really starting to wear on me...that and all "wild west" analogies.



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    Based on the video, I definitely don't think Mrs. Robertson was speakingapprovingly of OC.
    James M. "Jim" Mullins, Jr., Esq.
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    WVCDL wrote:
    Based on the video, I definitely don't think Mrs. Robertson was speakingapprovingly of OC.
    Agreed. She was clearly being quoted as the "anti" position. She didn't give the impression she was "OK" with it. Not sure where Mike got that...

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    bobernet wrote:
    WVCDL wrote:
    Based on the video, I definitely don't think Mrs. Robertson was speakingapprovingly of OC.
    Agreed. She was clearly being quoted as the "anti" position. She didn't give the impression she was "OK" with it. Not sure where Mike got that...
    Are we watching the same video?

    The woman said with a very pleasant and nonchalant look on her face re what she thought about open carry: "To me I think it gives kids the idea that guns are OK - they get decentized to it."It looks like to me she was "OK" with the phenomina - and was standing there looking on like it was atourist attraction - a far cry from the demeanor I see on anit-gunners in Virginia who sometimes physically will try to interfere with pro-gun people's space - their fces are read, their brow contorted, sometimes they yell. Trust me, the Wisconsin woman was nothing like an anti!

    Eric on the other hand, appeared a little uptight or at least pretty serious talking about how damaging guns were - I watched it a couple of times, and I think Eric was asked a different question than Mrs. Robertson- and then the TV news contrasted the 2 answers as if they were in response to the same question.

    Don't get me wrong, great event, and great press coverage - positive, fair, and they even mentioned OpenCarry.org. I also like the zoo thing, as it is always easy to bring kids to as a picnic in the park.

    One thought though, the open carrier woman Carol who laughed about "clearing a store" - it's easy to talk about the one in a million funny event while OCing - try to purposely get those out of your mind when you do these events - talk instead about the 97% of the time when nobody appears to even notice or care about you or your gun.

    After these events, always do a little after action review of yourselves on camera, not to worry about water under the bridge, but to think thru how you to prepare for next time to be even better.

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    Maybe someone could edit out the extraneous javascript URL in the OP?

    It is interesting that Boise TV had to find a Madistanian to provide their anti-gun sound bites. Then the first local interviewed points out the benefits of education of the the public - Madistan's raison d' etre with UWM and the state bureaucracy. Finally. the talking head missed Wisconsin as an anomalous open carry state.

    Is it better to be an anomalous OC state than a regulated CC state? That is the question.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    Of course only Mrs. Robertson knows exactly what she meant. After watching the video a half a dozen times my opinion is she is presenting an anti-gun sentiment. Especially being that immediately following her statement Eric Bauer gave a rebuttal. To me her statement implies that kids are currently sensitized to the idea that guns are bad and dangerous. Seeing non cops walking around with guns might , in her viewpoint, desensitize the kids and make them feel guns are OK. This is only my opinion only she knows her mind set.

    Nontheless the article is extremely important to our cause. It's the first time I know of that open carry rights have received media recognition on a statewide if not national scale. What is interesting is that Idaho apparently has much the same problem that Wisconsin does, it apparently does not have widespread recognition that open carry is a right. Obviously zoo management was not aware of it . What is refreshing is that Boise police were aware of the right.

    Not only is the RKBA a national right but it is a state right in 44 states in the U.S. 44 of 50 states have RKBA amendments in their state constitution (It's interesting that our neighbour state, Minnesota, is one of the six that do not). The zoo Boise media release will undoubtably get the "word" out to the Idaho residents that open carry is a constitutional right and it will spill out into states across the country that open carry is constitutionaly supported.

    One thing that Mrs. Robertson, from Wisconsin, said that bothers me "We don't see that back home". That statement says to me that we have a ways to go in order to get the message out in our state.

    Maybe a "copy cat" demonstration at the Madison zoo is something to consider. As in Idaho there is no prohibition of open carry on public property in Wisconsin, however, one must be careful about carrying inside one of the zoo buildings, even the restroom. Also it is important that the zoo be at least 1000 feet from a grade 1 thru 12 school.

    With those cautions in mind a demonstration at zoo Madison could have the same "information to the public" effect as did zoo Boise.



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    Sorry: My previous post referencing a Madison zoo was in error. The zoo in the Madison area is named the Henry Vilas zoo and is probably privately owned. There is a public county zoo in Dane county but the largest public zoo in the state is in Milwaukee.

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    Yeah, Mike, you read this wrong.

    It should be read as:

    "To me I think it gives kids the idea that guns are OK [which clearly they are not] and I think they're going to be desensitized [the horror!]"


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    Teej wrote:
    Yeah, Mike, you read this wrong.

    It should be read as:

    "To me I think it gives kids the idea that guns are OK [which clearly they are not] and I think they're going to be desensitized [the horror!]"
    I disagree - but in any event, at worst, her comment is ambiguous, and when it comes to publicity,everybody needs to stop looking gift horses in the mouth - stop saying the galss is half empty - this was an awesome video report - the Wisconsin family looked on as if they were simply observing local culture, which they were, not afraid, etc.

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    Lammie wrote:
    Of course only Mrs. Robertson knows exactly what she meant. After watching the video a half a dozen times my opinion is she is presenting an anti-gun sentiment. Especially being that immediately following her statement Eric Bauer gave a rebuttal.
    Bauer's statement was not a rebuttal - it was taken wholly out of context by the press to help make "the story" Remember - the press makes "stories" - wee just feed 'em the material, and lot's of it so our side comes out in teh story at least a bit.

    Besides, at worst, Robertson's comment is ambiguous, and when it comes to publicity,everybody needs to stop looking gift horses in the mouth - stop saying the galss is half empty - this was an awesome video report - the Wisconsin family looked on as if they were simply observing local culture, which they were, not afraid, etc.

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    Lammie wrote:
    Nontheless the article is extremely important to our cause. It's the first time I know of that open carry rights have received media recognition on a statewide if not national scale. What is interesting is that Idaho apparently has much the same problem that Wisconsin does, it apparently does not have widespread recognition that open carry is a right. Obviously zoo management was not aware of it . What is refreshing is that Boise police were aware of the right.
    Lammie - are you guys in Wisconsin checking the main page of OCDO every day?

    There have been tons (i.e., gobs) of news videos and articles in recent years where "open carry rights have received media recognition on a statewide if not national scale."

    Watch the recent Nightline video at http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=5249691, see Utbue version for full into to this awesome story, and then spend about half a day watching the open carry channels at http://www.opencarry.org/media.html.

    Idaho is a traditional open carrystate, and has Gold Star status and is not like Wisconsin - still, given that most people have little idea of any rights, let alone gun rights, unless open carry becomes as common as carrying cell phone, it will simply never be true that any state will "have widespread recognition that open carry is a right."

    But the news media in Idaho is trained on OC legality, and therfore gave a pretty good spin to their story - you shoulda seen the first year or two of stories in DC/Virginia after the 2004 "Champps incident" - now see the latest dining out at Champps on VCDL's web site - go to http://www.VCDL.org abd scroll down - the video starts by itself.

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    Lammie wrote:
    One thing that Mrs. Robertson, from Wisconsin, said that bothers me "We don't see that back home". That statement says to me that we have a ways to go in order to get the message out in our state.
    Right - do you have a state group yet for open carry? And I mean a few folks who know what they are doing, tech and publicity savvy, no chips on their shoulders, not talking about "their rights" all the time - just normal nice folks who open carry and are not afraid to do so in public and will talk about it, and never miss an opportunity to say the glass is half full.

    If you had such a group, I would present Mrs. Robinson as the poster child for why open carry is going to become more common and accepted in Wisconsin - see, look - Wisconin woman with kids takes note of open carry as an intersting phenomina, not somthing that is disorderly or would panic the public.

    You take the law, publicty etc. AS YOU FIND IT and use it. Think like generals, lawyers, and spin masters.

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    Lammie wrote:
    Sorry: My previous post referencing a Madison zoo was in error. The zoo in the Madison area is named the Henry Vilas zoo and is probably privately owned. There is a public county zoo in Dane county but the largest public zoo in the state is in Milwaukee.
    The Henry Vilas Zoo is in fact own by Dane County. It is a public zoo and therefore one would have to remain outside of all of the zoo buildings if carrying a firearm. Generally one can see most exhibits while remaining outdoors, but some significant ones would have to be bypassed, e.g., the aviary, primate house, herpetarium, and the, um, "cat house." Fortunately the zoo is small enough not to necessitate a rest room trip unless one stays for a long time; but it would be interesting, if not highly amusing, to see the looks on faces if you approached someone and said "Excuse me, would you mind holding my gun while I take a whiz?"
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    Lammie wrote:
    One thing that Mrs. Robertson, from Wisconsin, said that bothers me "We don't see that back home". That statement says to me that we have a ways to go in order to get the message out in our state.

    Maybe a "copy cat" demonstration at the Madison zoo is something to consider. As in Idaho there is no prohibition of open carry on public property in Wisconsin, however, one must be careful about carrying inside one of the zoo buildings, even the restroom. Also it is important that the zoo be at least 1000 feet from a grade 1 thru 12 school.

    With those cautions in mind a demonstration at zoo Madison could have the same "information to the public" effect as did zoo Boise.
    Good idea, but I would start at a much much less controversial locale - OCing in a zoo in Wisconsin is graduate level work and very in your face and likely to draw exactly the opposite of what you want - police response and confusion - as opposed to publicity on a nice family outing. In the Army we trained using crawl, walk, run methodology.

    Try a nice park somewhere where you outing does push into other people's space like it would at an enclosed and crowded zoo. Also, warn everyone to comply wioth FOPA in their vehicles - I do not agree that one escapes comitting a crime in Wisconsin by merely carrying inside the passenger compartment unloaded in encased.

    Also, individuals need to open carry in wisconin on foot as individuals as much as possible about town.

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    Shotgun wrote:
    The Henry Vilas Zoo is in fact own by Dane County. It is a public zoo and therefore one would have to remain outside of all of the zoo buildings if carrying a firearm.
    Why? Please cite to authority.

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    Mike wrote:
    Shotgun wrote:
    The Henry Vilas Zoo is in fact own by Dane County. It is a public zoo and therefore one would have to remain outside of all of the zoo buildings if carrying a firearm.
    Why? Please cite to authority.
    Wisconsin Statute:

    941.235(1)
    (1) Any person who goes armed with a firearm in any building owned or leased by the state or any political subdivision of the state is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

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    Mike wrote:
    Teej wrote:
    Yeah, Mike, you read this wrong.

    It should be read as:

    "To me I think it gives kids the idea that guns are OK [which clearly they are not] and I think they're going to be desensitized [the horror!]"
    I disagree - but in any event, at worst, her comment is ambiguous, and when it comes to publicity,everybody needs to stop looking gift horses in the mouth - stop saying the galss is half empty - this was an awesome video report - the Wisconsin family looked on as if they were simply observing local culture, which they were, not afraid, etc.
    It goes into how language is used differently in different parts of the country I guess.

    She's the same kind who would complain about video games and movies "desensitizing kids to violence and pornography"

    Plus..."gives kids the idea that" is a red flag that the speaker doesn't agree with that "idea".

    I have not seen anything _ever_ up here about "desensitizing kids" in a "good" context.

    Plus, like most news stories there was the "point/counterpoint"aspect of it - they were portraying her as not liking it, and then "But Dad and Gun owner xxx says...."


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    The kids were telling me yesterday they wanted to head to the zoo. When I saw the news article, and this thread, that shored it up. I don't carry or even own a gun yet, but went looking for information and signage regardless. Theh zoo website states that it is operated by Dane county, with Madison contributing some funding as well. Check the link towards the bottom. http://www.vilaszoo.org/visit/index.php?category_id=490

    While we were there I made sure to check for any signage at entrances and inside buildings. The entrance signs stated the following were not allowed.



    I never found any in door signs or any other prohibited signage. Anyone know of any statutes prohibiting carry at the zoo?

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    trailblazer2003 wrote:
    I never found any in door signs or any other prohibited signage. Anyone know of any statutes prohibiting carry at the zoo?
    There you go - dive into the weeds my friends. knowledge is power.

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    trailblazer2003 wrote:
    While we were there I made sure to check for any signage at entrances and inside buildings. The entrance signs stated the following were not allowed.



    I never found any in door signs or any other prohibited signage. Anyone know of any statutes prohibiting carry at the zoo?
    See my post above. In my opinion on the zoo grounds per, it's legal. But you couldn't enter any of the buildings. If it has a roof, stay out!
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    Shotgun wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    Shotgun wrote:
    The Henry Vilas Zoo is in fact own by Dane County. It is a public zoo and therefore one would have to remain outside of all of the zoo buildings if carrying a firearm.
    Why? Please cite to authority.
    Wisconsin Statute:

    941.235(1)
    (1) Any person who goes armed with a firearm in any building owned or leased by the state or any political subdivision of the state is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
    BGood job - so, open carriers in Wisconsin, do not "carry" in any vehicle nor in "any building owned or leased by the state or any political subdivision of the state."

    Always recon where you are going ahead of time and think these things thru.

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    Shotgun wrote:
    trailblazer2003 wrote:
    See my post above. In my opinion on the zoo grounds per, it's legal. But you couldn't enter any of the buildings. If it has a roof, stay out!
    I saw the post, I was just adding that it appears there are no restrictions on the grounds of the zoo otherwise they would have included firearms. You are correct, the buildings can be easily avoided, they get crowded and hot anyway. I don't think there are any schools within 1000' of the zoo either.

    I also forgot, I did see one defensive weapon while there. A zoo maintenance worker was carrying bear spray in a holster. Doesn't WI have a OC size limit? Guess it isn't applicable to zoo staff? No other holsters of anykind, or security patrols for that matter.

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    Not to take the thread's topic too far astray, but I became very much aware of statute 941.235 years ago when I made my yearly trip into the Madison/Dane County "City-County Building" to pay property taxes. The entrances have stenciled notices that say something like "Firearms and other weapons prohibited" and it cited 941.235 and another statute that was completely irrelevant because it has something to do with "interfering with firefighters" or similar. After the county coroner and another worker were shot dead by a lunatic, the city and county placed metal detectors and private security personnel at the entrances. (Which were removed and placed in the new county courthouse building after the courts moved out of the building.) Of course every time I had reason to enter the building I made it a point of carrying as much metal material on me as I could. I'd have batteries, a knife, some loose ammo, paperclips, and plenty of change stuffed in my pockets. Despite the fact that the statute covered firearms specifically, and there are no Madison or Dane County ordinances regarding carrying knives, they of course never allowed me to take my knife inside. Nor the ammo, which of course they cannot prohibit legally due to the state preemption law. (However they did miss .44 magnum ammo that I put into the tray once and back into my pocket with a smile as the guard was bragging to me about the sensitivity of his hand held metal detector.) One day I placed a loaded magazine into the tray, which of course they DID notice and did not hand back to me, but instead gave me a receipt for it and my pocket knife. When I was leaving the building and asked to retrieve my items, they said a police officer was coming to talk with me and to have a seat. They said they needed to report whenever a gun came into the building--- I replied I didn't bring a GUN. The Madison officer arrived a few minutes later picked up my items and handed them to me. He took out a little note pad and said something like "For the sake of those bozos I'm going to pretend like I give a ****." He said "name?". I said "my real name?" He shrugged and said "I don't care." He asked where my gun was, and I told him it was in my car. He said "That's fine" and wished me a good day.

    In any event the moral of the story, the poorly trained security guards who once manned the entrances to the Madison/Dane County city-county building, and who are now at the courthouse, will try to use 941.235 to prohibit items beyond the scope of that statute and which currently are not, or in the example of ammunition cannot be, prohibited locally.

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    trailblazer2003 wrote:
    Shotgun wrote:
    trailblazer2003 wrote:
    See my post above. In my opinion on the zoo grounds per, it's legal. But you couldn't enter any of the buildings. If it has a roof, stay out!
    I saw the post, I was just adding that it appears there are no restrictions on the grounds of the zoo otherwise they would have included firearms. You are correct, the buildings can be easily avoided, they get crowded and hot anyway. I don't think there are any schools within 1000' of the zoo either.

    I also forgot, I did see one defensive weapon while there. A zoo maintenance worker was carrying bear spray in a holster. Doesn't WI have a OC size limit? Guess it isn't applicable to zoo staff? No other holsters of anykind, or security patrols for that matter.
    You may want to call it "pepper spray" in this forum so as not to confuse OC (oleoresin capsicum) with OC (open carry.) Yes, there is a pepper spray size limit for that which is intended to be used against humans. But the bear spray is different. If you go into the Madison Ganger Mountain you'll see HUGE cans of it intended for bears. I guess it's like the prohibition against civilians possessing "stun guns" in Wisconsin, but if you shop and Farm and Fleet you'll find some nasty cattle prods that will make a stun gun seem whimpy.

    Not sure you can put much stock in the fact that the zoo sign does not mention firearms. I would expect some sort of law enforcement response if carrying at the zoo, regardless of it's legality. Take note that Madison continues to post a "firearms not allowed" notice for their designated "conservation parks" although there is no legal basis to such a prohibition that I can find. Nor has the city attorney attempted to provide a response to my challenge to them to justify that signage a couple years ago.
    A. Gold

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