Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 31

Thread: Fairfax Duck Hunters Target Of Neighborhood's Anger

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern Fauquier Co, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,297

    Post imported post

    Mildly OC related, definitely gun related.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...901745_pf.html

    Fairfax Duck Hunters Target Of Neighborhood's Anger


    By Ben Hubbard
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Sunday, July 20, 2008; C01

    Larry Hirsch got so fed up watching ducks get shot out of the sky that he hatched a plan to get rid of the hunter who hunkered down in the duck blind behind his Fairfax County home. He's not a hunter, but Hirsch acquired the right to build the only duck blind allowed in that spot on the Potomac River.

    Hirsch, 55, went out a few times and fired his shotgun, pretending to duck hunt and thereby fulfilling the requirement of his license.
    The plan worked, because Hirsch's landowner rights trumped those of the hunter, who had licensed the empty spot, and he was pushed out of his duck blind at least for a year.

    This so miffed the hunter, Robert Bowe, who owns Bowe's and Arrows hunting shop in Fairfax, that Bowe finagled land rights from an absentee property owner down the block and built a new blind. He's been hunting there ever since, ignoring neighbors' complaints.

    "I tried to be respectful to them until they tried to keep me from there," said Bowe, 63. "I tried to be nice. Now I'm going to hunt."

    With two months until duck season, tensions are mounting in Fairfax between hunters and waterfront landowners. More than 100 people packed a public meeting July 9, at which officials from the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries spelled out the rules for duck hunting.

    Hunters call their sport a Virginia tradition and mobilize at any talk of rule changes. Environmentalists say hunting disturbs other wildlife. Homeowners say gunshots wake them up, stress them out, spook their pets and scare their children.

    "In terms of sheer numbers, I get more complaints about duck hunting in suburban back yards than any other single thing," Del. Kristen J. Amundson (D-Fairfax) said. "Suburban swing sets and duck hunters are incompatible neighbors."

    Fairfax Supervisor Gerald W. Hyland (D-Mount Vernon) said vast residential growth along the river has spiked tensions by moving residents closer to hunters.

    "This is a conflict between two types of activity: between the right to have quiet in one's home and the right of others to hunt on the river," Hyland said.

    Jurisdictional issues complicate the matter. Maryland controls most of the river, so Virginians might hear hunters licensed in Maryland. And Virginia oversees only certain embayment areas, including Little Hunting and Dogue creeks and the area south of the Dyke Marsh Wildlife Preserve, where Hirsch lives.

    Ultimately, the county must strike a balance between its ordinance banning gunfire "in areas of the county which are so heavily populated as to make such conduct dangerous" and those places where the state allows hunting.

    "I don't find it reasonable to have someone . . . awakened at 6:15 in the morning to the sound of gunfire in populous Fairfax County," Hyland said of a jurisdiction with more than 1 million people. Even in rural areas, "you don't hunt around the farmhouse."

    Duck hunting season runs from Oct. 4 to Jan. 26. Waterfront landowners in Virginia can get licenses for blinds in the water off their property in July and August. If they pass, others can license the spots through September. As long as they are 100 yards from homes, they can build blinds, and they don't have to consult homeowners.

    This is how Hirsch's neighborhood, with multimillion-dollar homes scattered in the woods between the George Washington Memorial Parkway and the river, ended up with duck blinds so close to homes. Most residents moved to the area for its serene nature -- and paid dearly for it. Their primary complaint concerns noise.

    "It's very disturbing to be trying to write Christmas cards and to hear shooting," said Elizabeth Ketz-Robinson, 59, a psychotherapist who lives on the water with her husband, Don, and three golden retrievers. "I want to tear my hair out sometimes."
    Bowe considers such complaints exaggerated. Duck season occurs in the fall and winter, when windows are shut, he said. Airplanes and motorboats cause more ruckus. He believes that opposition to hunting motivates most complaints.

    "Are you hearing shots, or does it bother you that someone is out there hunting?" he asked.

    "I guarantee they can hear it in their houses," said Don Roberts, Bowe's hunting buddy, whose blind is near the south end of the neighborhood. "But it's not like thunder rolling across the sky."

    Virginia's regulations give landowners little recourse, causing more conflicts than elsewhere in the region. The District bans all hunting, and waterfront owners in Maryland can license blinds without hunting, said Robert Beyer, associate director of the Maryland Wildlife and Heritage Service, and many do so they can keep hunters out.

    But Virginia doesn't allow defensive licensing; licensees must both build a blind and hunt from it.

    This leaves few options for the American Horticultural Society headquarters, near Dyke Marsh. Housed on a 25-acre farm, with an organic meadow and numerous birdhouses, there is a duck blind less than 20 yards from the shore, said Trish Gibson, the farm's manager.

    "We're trying to find a happy balance with wildlife so we make it a happy place for the duck," she said. "And then there's a duck blind right in front of our place."

    Gibson said one person refused to support the nonprofit group because of the blind, which her organization can get rid of only by licensing the spot on its own and building and hunting from it. The group has no plans to do so, she said.

    Bowe's blind near the south end of the Dyke Marsh preserve rankles environmental groups.

    "I think it's inappropriate," said Glenda Booth, president of Friends of Dyke Marsh. "I think it's incompatible with the purpose for which Dyke Marsh was created." Dyke Marsh, a 485-acre site run by the National Park Service, is a wetlands habitat prized by birdwatchers and other animal lovers.

    But hunters say they're not anti-environment. The Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries spends $100,000 a year from license fees on wetlands projects, said Jerry Sims, regional wildlife manager. And all hunters must buy a $10 duck stamp, which brings in an additional $140,000 a year for waterfowl-related projects.
    The proximity of guns to homes also raises safety concerns.

    "Anytime anyone has a weapon of any kind, there's always a chance of an incident," said Katherine Ward of the Mount Vernon Council of Citizens' Associations. "The whole environment has changed from rural to urban over the years, so how do we accommodate?"

    Bowe scoffs at such worries.

    "I'm not going to pick up my gun and shoot at you," he said. "I know the difference between a kayak and a duck. The duck tastes better."

    Since 1960, the Virginia Game and Inland Fisheries Department has recorded 28 waterfowl hunting incidents, none in Fairfax, Sims said. Seven were fatal. All but four of the incidents took place within 50 yards, Sims added, in most cases meaning the hunter shot someone in his own party.

    "No one has ever misidentified an orange or a yellow kayak as a duck," he said. "Folks just need to get along and share the resources."

    Hirsh has resigned himself to Bowe's blind. A contractor, he has built four large houses on the block; the most recent is listed at $3.6 million, he said. All look out on the blind. He doesn't oppose hunting, he said, and keeps a loaded 9mm pistol near his bed.

    "I just wish there was a little more consideration given," he said. He has no intention of trying to oust Bowe again.

    "These days, I spend more and more of my time in the winter in the Caribbean," he said, "so it doesn't bother me that much."


  2. #2
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    Post imported post

    Well Longwatch, aside from the fact that BLIND hunters have pushed the rules to the point where those of us that used to float, can longer do it for fear of violating a blinds protected space.......what does this have to do with open carry?

  3. #3
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,604

    Post imported post

    peter nap wrote:
    Well Longwatch, aside from the fact that BLIND hunters have pushed the rules to the point where those of us that used to float, can longer do it for fear of violating a blinds protected space.......what does this have to do with open carry?
    They do not CC their shotguns, they OC them.
    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern Fauquier Co, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,297

    Post imported post

    Grapeshot wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    Well Longwatch, aside from the fact that BLIND hunters have pushed the rules to the point where those of us that used to float, can longer do it for fear of violating a blinds protected space.......what does this have to do with open carry?
    They do not CC their shotguns, they OC them.
    Yata hey
    Exactly, also the hunters among us might have a stake in this issue. Not being a duck hunter I was not aware of a conflict between floaters and permanent blinds. However I would think floaters would have just as much to lose if hunting in this area is banned. Loss of places to buy firearms, to shoot them and to hunt with them is a critical threat to our right.

  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    Post imported post

    Grapeshot wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    Well Longwatch, aside from the fact that BLIND hunters have pushed the rules to the point where those of us that used to float, can longer do it for fear of violating a blinds protected space.......what does this have to do with open carry?
    They do not CC their shotguns, they OC them.
    Yata hey
    They do open carry Grapeshot but it's a hunting issue. Lots better places to discuss it.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, VA, ,
    Posts
    689

    Post imported post

    longwatch wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    Well Longwatch, aside from the fact that BLIND hunters have pushed the rules to the point where those of us that used to float, can longer do it for fear of violating a blinds protected space.......what does this have to do with open carry?
    They do not CC their shotguns, they OC them.
    Yata hey
    Exactly, also the hunters among us might have a stake in this issue. Not being a duck hunter I was not aware of a conflict between floaters and permanent blinds. However I would think floaters would have just as much to lose if hunting in this area is banned. Loss of places to buy firearms, to shoot them and to hunt with them is a critical threat to our right.
    +1, Longwatch. It kinda goes with "anti-creep". They'll try to creep up from just about anywhere.

    This was the one that got me, and I quote,
    "Anytime anyone has a weapon of any kind, there's always a chance of an incident," said Katherine Ward of the Mount Vernon Council of Citizens' Associations. "The whole environment has changed from rural to urban over the years, so how do we accommodate?"


  7. #7
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    Post imported post

    peter nap wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    Well Longwatch, aside from the fact that BLIND hunters have pushed the rules to the point where those of us that used to float, can longer do it for fear of violating a blinds protected space.......what does this have to do with open carry?
    They do not CC their shotguns, they OC them.
    Yata hey
    They do open carry Grapeshot but it's a hunting issue. Lots better places to discuss it.
    There is a lot of conflict in the hunting world Longwatch. Duck hunters Blinds) have turned it into a rich mans sport. It's now in the realm of shooting pen raised quail.

    City people buying rural property on creeks license their docks as blinds to prevent hunting. The arguments can go on for days and there are two distinct sides and NO middle ground.

    Like I said, there are better places to fight or discuss hunting matters.

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern Fauquier Co, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,297

    Post imported post

    I think this is one of those things that comes under a gun rights activisms version of the NATO doctrine. I don't have a dog in this fight, but I will support my fellow gun owners in their fight.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    longwatch wrote:
    I think this is one of those things that comes under a gun rights activisms version of the NATO doctrine. I don't have a dog in this fight, but I will support my fellow gun owners in their fight.
    Hmmmm. Maybe its time I take up duck hunting.

    Gives me a good excuse to get a dog. And another gun.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  10. #10
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    Post imported post

    Citizen wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    I think this is one of those things that comes under a gun rights activisms version of the NATO doctrine. I don't have a dog in this fight, but I will support my fellow gun owners in their fight.
    Hmmmm. Maybe its time I take up duck hunting.

    Gives me a good excuse to get a dog. And another gun.

    It isn't my board.
    Rally away!

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    peter nap wrote:
    It isn't my board.
    Rally away!
    I think you've got a point in an earlier post about there being better places to discuss hunting issues.

    I guess the real lesson is to be on stand by to help the duck hunters, etc.when the anti-gun proposals come before the county Board of Supervisors.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,604

    Post imported post

    Citizen wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    It isn't my board.
    Rally away!
    I think you've got a point in an earlier post about there being better places to discuss hunting issues.

    I guess the real lesson is to be on stand by to help the duck hunters, etc.when the anti-gun proposals come before the county Board of Supervisors.
    So maybe we need a non-OC thread for "Help Wanted" by other firearms groups. We stand together or we fall alone.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, VA, ,
    Posts
    689

    Post imported post

    I don't disagree about the Off-Topic point, but to quote longwatch ...
    "I think this is one of those things that comes under a gun rights activisms version of the NATO doctrine. I don't have a dog in this fight, but I will support my fellow gun owners in their fight."
    ...we need to kind of band together to keep this type of "infringement" creeping into our backyard.

    Thanks for posting this, longwatch. I did read it eary this am (7/20)and had a number of e-mails well before the public meeting, about this issue. I was born and raised in that area and I'm familiar with that stretch of the Potomac, long before the mega-mansions were built. It was not a "rich-man's" sport in the day. My .45 cents worth.


  14. #14
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,228

    Post imported post

    Citizen wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    It isn't my board.
    Rally away!
    I think you've got a point in an earlier post about there being better places to discuss hunting issues.

    I guess the real lesson is to be on stand by to help the duck hunters, etc.when the anti-gun proposals come before the county Board of Supervisors.
    Yes! Can you imagine the duck hunter's surprise when 50 OC/CC activists show up in support? Might give them a new viewpoint about us to where they help support us. The war against guns is against all guns and all uses of them. We are on the same team when all is said and done.

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, VA, ,
    Posts
    689

    Post imported post

    Sorry, I'm back- It's too dear to me...

    This quote...
    "I think it's inappropriate," said Glenda Booth, president of Friends of Dyke Marsh. "I think it's incompatible with the purpose for which Dyke Marsh was created." Dyke Marsh, a 485-acre site run by the National Park Service, is a wetlands habitat prized by birdwatchers and other animal lovers.
    My bolding. Here's a quote from the NPS site...
    Dyke Marsh, which is believed to have formed 5,000 - 7,000 years ago, is one of the largest remainingfreshwater tidal wetlands in the Washington Metropolitan area.
    Huh - 5,000 to 7,000 years ago? I guess that makes Ms. Booth kinda ancient - with all due respect. Does Moses in diapers create a Kodak moment! Does she remember the Marina that used to be there in the 60's?

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Virginia USA, ,
    Posts
    1,688

    Post imported post

    DoubleR wrote:
    Sorry, I'm back- It's too dear to me...

    This quote...
    "I think it's inappropriate," said Glenda Booth, president of Friends of Dyke Marsh. "I think it's incompatible with the purpose for which Dyke Marsh was created." Dyke Marsh, a 485-acre site run by the National Park Service, is a wetlands habitat prized by birdwatchers and other animal lovers.
    My bolding. Here's a quote from the NPS site...
    Dyke Marsh, which is believed to have formed 5,000 - 7,000 years ago, is one of the largest remainingfreshwater tidal wetlands in the Washington Metropolitan area.
    Huh - 5,000 to 7,000 years ago? I guess that makes Ms. Booth kinda ancient - with all due respect. Does Moses in diapers create a Kodak moment! Does she remember the Marina that used to be there in the 60's?
    No no, you are missing the point. It didn't have a purpose until our great government mandated one for it.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Virginiaplanter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    402

    Post imported post

    George Washington Diraries:

    "But seldom was his home on the Potomac far from his thoughts, and never did he fail to return there when he could, for it was at Mount Vernon that all his worlds came together. From both inside and outside his extended neighborhood came a galaxy of people from all walks of life to visit him. Some were friends and relatives who came for a holiday, to play cards, to ride to the hounds, or to shoot ducks.


    Journal Entries of George Washington February 1768:


    18. Went a ducking between breakfast & dinner. In the Afternoon Mr. Thruston Mr. Alexander, & Mr. Carter from Gloster came in.

    24. Went a ducking between breakfast & dinner & killd 2 Mallards & 5 bald faces. Found Doctr. Rumney here at Dinner who staid all Night. Mr. Magowan returnd.

    25. Doctr. Rumney went away. I went to the Creek but not cross it. Killd 2 Ducks-viz. a sprig tail and Teal.

    Journal Entries February 1769

    3. Went a Gunning up the Creek--killd 7 Ducks. In the Afternoon Colo. F. Lewis & son Fieldg. & Mr. Rozer came here.

    9. Went a Ducking with Colo. Lewis. His son & Betcy Dandridge went to the Monthly Ball at Alexandria.

    11. Ducking till Dinner. Mr. Piper dind here. Betsy Dandridge came home in the Evening.

  18. #18
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    Post imported post

    Neplusultra wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    It isn't my board.
    Rally away!
    I think you've got a point in an earlier post about there being better places to discuss hunting issues.

    I guess the real lesson is to be on stand by to help the duck hunters, etc.when the anti-gun proposals come before the county Board of Supervisors.
    Yes! Can you imagine the duck hunter's surprise when 50 OC/CC activists show up in support? Might give them a new viewpoint about us to where they help support us. The war against guns is against all guns and all uses of them. We are on the same team when all is said and done.

    I'm not going to get into this, but I will put in a little dose of human nature before we start thinking hunting and pro gun will all start pulling together.

    Pro gun people (including hunters) have different interests and opinions...but don't get in each others way much. Target shooters, shoot targets, self defense folks wear guns concealed or openly, Black shirts sit around with their mouse guns speaking in military acronyms ....Etc.

    But we don't try to occupy each others space.

    Yesterday, one of the members here, whom I like, was talking to someone else about finding a holster that will accept a rail mounted light. I showed him one and he chuckled and said, I like leather.

    No big deal, just a friendly conversation!

    NOW, let's look at hunting

    Two deer hunters get together. One a stand hunter, one a hunt clubber with dogs.
    One says, I got a 20 pointer over your way last year.
    The other says, you run your damn dogs through my stand again, I'm gonna shoot them.
    The first says, the dogs can't read posted signs.

    Two duck hunters get together. The blind owner says, I paid a lot for my lease, I should have control of all the water too.
    The float hunter says, navigable waters are public waterways and you can't tell me I can't hunt there.

  19. #19
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern Fauquier Co, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,297

    Post imported post

    Infighting between groups of hunters becomes a moot point, if the areas in which they hunt in become off limits to that activity. A true case of 'if you don't hang together now, you will hang separately later'.

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    Post imported post

    longwatch wrote:
    Infighting between groups of hunters becomes a moot point, if the areas in which they hunt in become off limits to that activity. A true case of 'if you don't hang together now, you will hang separately later'.

    Like I said Longwatch, I'm not getting into it. I'm just stating the facts! This fellow might be the salt of the earth........but I still see it as Muffy bickering with Skippy over who scratched the ferrari.

  21. #21
    Regular Member sccrref's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA, , USA
    Posts
    741

    Post imported post

    peter nap wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    Infighting between groups of hunters becomes a moot point, if the areas in which they hunt in become off limits to that activity. A true case of 'if you don't hang together now, you will hang separately later'.

    Like I said Longwatch, I'm not getting into it. I'm just stating the facts! This fellow might be the salt of the earth........but I still see it as Muffy bickering with Skippy over who scratched the ferrari.
    And this is the beautiful thing about this forum. We can each of us put forth our opinion on matters with no care if others agree or disagree with what we feel/believe. My opinion, for what is is worth, is that if the antis get the rights or any gun owners taken away, they will be extatic, full of themselves beyound measure and promptly look for the next target.

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    Virginiaplanter wrote:
    George Washington Diraries:
    I wonder if Martha ever got tired of duck for supper.

    Thanks for the history, VAPlanter.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Southeast, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    5,974

    Post imported post

    Citizen wrote:
    Virginiaplanter wrote:
    George Washington Diraries:
    I wonder if Martha ever got tired of duck for supper.

    Thanks for the history, VAPlanter.
    Are you suggesting that as they got older, no matter how much George enjoyed it, Martha at some point just got sick of plucking?
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Granite State of Mind
    Posts
    4,509

    Post imported post

    Hunters can be some of our most louse-ridden "bedfellows", so working together can be tricky.

    Of the various gun hunting special interest organizations, my experience is that Ducks Unlimited is the most elite, snobbish, willing-to-sell-us-out-for-a-longer-season group out there.

    That said, many of my local RKBA friends also love duck hunting. I have no quarrel with hunting of any sort. I just wish the support was mutual.


  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
    Posts
    3,806

    Post imported post

    KBCraig wrote:
    I have no quarrel with hunting of any sort. I just wish the support was mutual.
    This.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •