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Thread: Another approach to nationwide reciprocity

  1. #1
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    That online petition got me thinking. Perhaps the best way to get wider reciprocity for permits is to contact our 2A friendly reps in the CO General Assembly and ask them to do it on behalf of us CO voters. If we can get similar efforts in other states, our own reciprocity will grow too. I know both Sen. Greg Brophy and Sen. Mike Knopp are 2A guys. Anyone else interested in writing them to get something going?


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    Regular Member Anubis's Avatar
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    I think that's unnecessary. Reciprocity is a function of the Attorney General's Office, not the legislature, and the AG office is doing a good job.

    CO already has the second-loosest criterion for CCW reciprocity: "if you recognize ours, we recognize yours". The only thing better would be "we recognize all permits", but that wouldn't do anything for us holders of CO permits when we go to other states. For one example, OH refuses to recognize CO permits because our statute doesn't require firing the handgun as part of the training.

    Since 2007 Jan 1, CO has added reciprocity with AR, KS, and PA (when those states decided to recognized our permit).

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    It comes off as "tit for tat." There's clearly no public safety concern if they're willing to arbitrarily recognize any state's permit that recognizes theirs.

    I'm against CCW permission slips at all, but the "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" stuff is very elementary school playground-ish.

    If Colorado would recognize a permit from a state with no requirements for training, no requirements for background checks, no requirements for "registration" of guns or any other record keeping, no requirement to share permit holder data with other entities - then why does Colorado even have a permit system at all? Why not just go Alaska or Vermont-style?

    P.S. I clearly realize that Nevada is even worse than CO when it comes to reciprocity. Much worse, in fact. However, they're at least logically consistent in their strong-arm tactics.

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    Here's my point: If Colorado's 18-12-213 Reciprocity statue says in effect, "we'll recognize yours if you recognize ours", we are relying on another state to recognize ours first, as if Colorado is superior to another State with respect to permits. Why don't we just set criteria for recognition at the legislative level. That way we don't have to worry about who is in the AG's office for our state or another state. If the AG is the one who determines this, we could get an anti AG and lose reciprocity with another state because of it, or another state could elect an anti AG and stop recognizing our permit. We obviously can't control what another state does, but at least we could still recognize other permits. After all, the point is allowing people to protect themselves, not tit-for-tat retaliation with people's rights.

    Moreover, I simply don't think that the online petition in http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum66/13833.html is the right way to go about it. If I were the CO AG, I would only really care about the concerns of voting Coloradans. And I admit, I don't understand the legal mechanism by which the CO AG determines reciprocity.




  5. #5
    Regular Member Anubis's Avatar
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    centsi wrote:
    I don't understand the legal mechanism by which the CO AG determines reciprocity.
    The statute is simple. Apparently someone in the AG's office keeps track of when another state recognizes the CO permit and adds it to the list.

    If Nevadans want to carry in CO, they know what to do.

    18-12-213. Reciprocity.

    (1) A permit to carry a concealed handgun or a concealed weapon that is issued by a state that recognizes the validity of permits issued pursuant to this part 2 shall be valid in this state in all respects as a permit issued pursuant to this part 2 if the permit is issued to a person who is:

    (a) Twenty-one years of age or older; and

    (b) (I) A resident of the state that issued the permit, as demonstrated by the address stated on a valid picture identification that is issued by the state that issued the permit and is carried by the permit holder; or

    (II) A resident of Colorado for no more than ninety days, as determined by the date of issuance on a valid picture identification issued by Colorado and carried by the permit holder.

    (2) For purposes of this section, a "valid picture identification" means a driver's license or a state identification issued in lieu of a driver's license.



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    Anubis wrote:
    If Nevadans want to carry in CO, they know what to do.
    Yep. Given the legislation in place in both states today, the best way for a Nevadan to carry in CO is open - while suing the State of Colorado for violating the Privileges and Immunities clause of the Constitution.

  7. #7
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    Anubis wrote:
    Apparently someone in the AG's office keeps track of when another state recognizes the CO permit and adds it to the list.
    I guess someone has to. With regard to having standing, Heller didn't have to break the law in order to sue. I'd think someone with a non-res permit from a reciprocity state could sue on P&I grounds. You might just want to make sure that your suit included stops in Denver, where you have no choice but to CC. Otherwise the court might skirt the issue and rule that you could have OC'd.




  8. #8
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    centsi wrote:
    Here's my point: If Colorado's 18-12-213 Reciprocity statue says in effect, "we'll recognize yours if you recognize ours", we are relying on another state to recognize ours first, as if Colorado is superior to another State with respect to permits. Why don't we just set criteria for recognition at the legislative level. That way we don't have to worry about who is in the AG's office for our state or another state. If the AG is the one who determines this, we could get an anti AG and lose reciprocity with another state because of it, or another state could elect an anti AG and stop recognizing our permit. We obviously can't control what another state does, but at least we could still recognize other permits. After all, the point is allowing people to protect themselves, not tit-for-tat retaliation with people's rights.

    Moreover, I simply don't think that the online petition in http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum66/13833.html is the right way to go about it. If I were the CO AG, I would only really care about the concerns of voting Coloradans. And I admit, I don't understand the legal mechanism by which the CO AG determines reciprocity.


    Colorado is better than other states, imo of course. The petition is patent nonsense, a waste of anyone's money that contributes to this windmill tilting, and the wrong way to effect statutory change under Federal law trying to impose itself by stepping on the 9th or 10th Amendments. CO doesn't 'wait' to see if somebody else will give us reciprocity first. It is the product of negotiaion between states' attornies general. We accept CCWs from states that have less restrictive processes than us, like NH. Other states accept our less restricive process than theirs--ones that have a range qualifying, for example.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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