Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 35

Thread: *DO YOU HAVE A BADGE*

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    11

    Post imported post

    Howdo LEOidentifyOC citizens ?Do bad guys onlycarrry concealed? How do you identify yourself? I prefer to carry concealed as open carryan invitation for some-one to make a grab for exposed fire-arm. If concealed, fire-armcan be your secret until you need it. OC not suitable at the mall in heavypopulated cities. Element of suprise is the key. I prefer OC during hunting season. JMOP , Captain Jack

  2. #2
    Regular Member Johnny Law's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Puget Sound, ,
    Posts
    462

    Post imported post

    Hold on to your sidearm Caption Jack, you're in for a bumpy ride!
    If you have to fight, do not fear death. We will all die one day, so fight skillfully and bravely! And if it is to be that you die, then at least go to God proudly. Meet him as the proud warrior that you are, and not as a sniveling coward. Nobody lives forever.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Arlington, Washington, USA
    Posts
    374

    Post imported post

    Honestly ask your self the last time you saw (or heard about) a bad guy walking down the road with a holstered gun on his hip. Criminals are total cowards, snakes that take away from others that which they desire. Sometimes it is material sometimes it is to make them feel better.

    As there have been many threads about the subject, OC has it advantages.

    Our badge is the fact that we OC.

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Henderson, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    333

    Post imported post

    How do LEO identify citizens in the bank for lawful purposes versus those there to rob? How do LEO identify guys walking through a park, versus guys looking to kidnap or rape? How do LEO identify people picking up their kids from school versus people looking to abuse children?

    Obviously, there is no reason for a citizen engaging in lawful activities to somehow prove that to LEOs. Cops are primarily about investigating crimes and arresting offenders. Preemptive tactics are great when they don't trample the rights of citizens. This is not a police state.

    Gun grabs are certainly a possibility, but given criminals' propensity to avoid conflict with armed citizens (and police) it's hardly much of a real concern.

    Your "hidden" gun lets criminals know that you are statistically as likely to be armed as any other joe walking the street. Judging by the CCW statistics, that chance is less than 1%.

    A concealed weapon is certainly better than not being armed at all, but there are many situations (I'd argue *most* situations on the street) where the bad guy is most definitely going to have the drop on you. Do you have the confidence in your skills to be able to draw from concealment and fire to stop a bad guy who has his finger on the trigger and his gun already pointed at you? Or his knife already at your throat? Deterrence seems a much better "tactic" to me.

    The "element of surprise" is an offensive tactic. Unless your mission is that of an assassin, the defensive value of "surprise" is nearly zero. Remember, your goal as a citizen (hopefully) is to avoid being a victim, not to kill criminals. Anything you can do to make it clear that you are not an easy target increases your odds of being left alone. The best we can hope for is that the gun we carry never has to be drawn.

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Bellevue, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,037

    Post imported post

    Welcome Caption Jack. As you may have noticed, we have some practice answering the why OC question. bobernet did a fine job here and there are MANY more excellant, well thought out posts else where on OCDO. Sit back and peruse a while.
    We're for CC as well as OC (just like picking out what shoes to wear that day, none of my business what you decide). It's just that OC's better!

    You may get read some frustration in a few responses. Try not to attack personally and *most* folks will respect your choices.

  6. #6
    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The 'Dena, Mаяуlaпd
    Posts
    2,147

    Post imported post

    Element of Surpise? Does that mean when a bad guy has a gun pointed at your head you will be surpised your concealed firearm will do nothing for you?

    If you do not wish to OC fine, that is your choice. If you want to come here and tell us how CC is a superior form of carry and OC is blah,blah,blah...please take it to another forum.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lamma Island, HK
    Posts
    964

    Post imported post

    Caption Jack wrote:
    Howdo LEOidentifyOC citizens ?Do bad guys onlycarrry concealed? How do you identify yourself? I prefer to carry concealed as open carryan invitation for some-one to make a grab for exposed fire-arm. If concealed, fire-armcan be your secret until you need it. OC not suitable at the mall in heavypopulated cities. Element of suprise is the key. I prefer OC during hunting season. JMOP , Captain Jack
    Captain Jack. . . I also welcome you to the forum, but have to suggest. . . DUE TO CCW BEING WHAT IT IS HERE IN CALIFORNIA EVEN IF YOU WANT ONE YOU ARE VERY UNLIKELY TO GET ONE. That is why I OC. I would rather save my time and money practicing to be quicker with my OC'd weapon.

    But I have considered. . Maybe I won't mind having to bribe the LA County Sheriff by donating to his re-election campaign and then spending several hundreds of dollars and a few months of time to execise something that should be according to the US Constitution my right! That sounds like a great idea. . . and while I am at it I will just shut up and let the government have my 1st amendment rights to. . .

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193

    Post imported post

    Caption Jack, you might add your location to your caption as our owner and administrators have asked.

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Indiana, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    674

    Post imported post

    Caption Jack wrote:
    Howdo LEOidentifyOC citizens ?
    They're the ones with visible guns, duh.

  10. #10
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Etzenricht, Germany
    Posts
    1,598

    Post imported post

    Come on guys! Be nice please!
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lake Charles Area, Louisiana, USA
    Posts
    1,723

    Post imported post

    bobernet wrote:
    How do LEO identify citizens in the bank for lawful purposes versus those there to rob? How do LEO identify guys walking through a park, versus guys looking to kidnap or rape? How do LEO identify people picking up their kids from school versus people looking to abuse children?

    Obviously, there is no reason for a citizen engaging in lawful activities to somehow prove that to LEOs. Cops are primarily about investigating crimes and arresting offenders. Preemptive tactics are great when they don't trample the rights of citizens. This is not a police state.

    Gun grabs are certainly a possibility, but given criminals' propensity to avoid conflict with armed citizens (and police) it's hardly much of a real concern.

    Your "hidden" gun lets criminals know that you are statistically as likely to be armed as any other joe walking the street. Judging by the CCW statistics, that chance is less than 1%.

    A concealed weapon is certainly better than not being armed at all, but there are many situations (I'd argue *most* situations on the street) where the bad guy is most definitely going to have the drop on you. Do you have the confidence in your skills to be able to draw from concealment and fire to stop a bad guy who has his finger on the trigger and his gun already pointed at you? Or his knife already at your throat? Deterrence seems a much better "tactic" to me.

    The "element of surprise" is an offensive tactic. Unless your mission is that of an assassin, the defensive value of "surprise" is nearly zero. Remember, your goal as a citizen (hopefully) is to avoid being a victim, not to kill criminals. Anything you can do to make it clear that you are not an easy target increases your odds of being left alone. The best we can hope for is that the gun we carry never has to be drawn.


    Wow, Bob. I'd say you just knocked that one right out of the ball park

    Nice Job

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Catasauqua, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    3,047

    Post imported post

    bobernet wrote:
    How do LEO identify citizens in the bank for lawful purposes versus those there to rob? How do LEO identify guys walking through a park, versus guys looking to kidnap or rape? How do LEO identify people picking up their kids from school versus people looking to abuse children?

    Obviously, there is no reason for a citizen engaging in lawful activities to somehow prove that to LEOs. Cops are primarily about investigating crimes and arresting offenders. Preemptive tactics are great when they don't trample the rights of citizens. This is not a police state.

    Gun grabs are certainly a possibility, but given criminals' propensity to avoid conflict with armed citizens (and police) it's hardly much of a real concern.

    Your "hidden" gun lets criminals know that you are statistically as likely to be armed as any other joe walking the street. Judging by the CCW statistics, that chance is less than 1%.

    A concealed weapon is certainly better than not being armed at all, but there are many situations (I'd argue *most* situations on the street) where the bad guy is most definitely going to have the drop on you. Do you have the confidence in your skills to be able to draw from concealment and fire to stop a bad guy who has his finger on the trigger and his gun already pointed at you? Or his knife already at your throat? Deterrence seems a much better "tactic" to me.

    The "element of surprise" is an offensive tactic. Unless your mission is that of an assassin, the defensive value of "surprise" is nearly zero. Remember, your goal as a citizen (hopefully) is to avoid being a victim, not to kill criminals. Anything you can do to make it clear that you are not an easy target increases your odds of being left alone. The best we can hope for is that the gun we carry never has to be drawn.
    I think that needs to be stickied somewhere. It pretty much blows the anti-OC argument(s) out of the water in a brilliantly complete yet succinct manner.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Free, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    3,855

    Post imported post

    VAopencarry wrote:
    Element of Surpise? Does that mean when a bad guy has a gun pointed at your head you will be surpised your concealed firearm will do nothing for you?

    If you do not wish to OC fine, that is your choice. If you want to come here and tell us how CC is a superior form of carry and OC is blah,blah,blah...please take it to another forum.
    Yeah, you make a point, but a BG could still pull his piece before you can get yours out even if OC'd. I can see scenarios where the BG, CCing, of course, is behind you or lateral to you and considers youthe most potent threat so pulls his weapon. I think this is often missed in the CC v OC debate.And there is the fact that if he does so, he gets your gun as well as your wallet.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  14. #14
    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Dale City, VA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,694

    Post imported post

    I prefer to carry concealed as open carry an invitation for some-one to make a grab for exposed fire-arm.
    Oh, geez - not this old chestnut again. I don't think we've ever had anyone able to cite a verifiable incidence of this happening.

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    bobernet wrote:
    SNIP How do LEO identify citizens...
    Great post, bobernet!
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Indiana, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    674

    Post imported post

    Gunslinger wrote:
    VAopencarry wrote:
    Element of Surpise? Does that mean when a bad guy has a gun pointed at your head you will be surpised your concealed firearm will do nothing for you?

    If you do not wish to OC fine, that is your choice. If you want to come here and tell us how CC is a superior form of carry and OC is blah,blah,blah...please take it to another forum.
    Yeah, you make a point, but a BG could still pull his piece before you can get yours out even if OC'd. I can see scenarios where the BG, CCing, of course, is behind you or lateral to you and considers youthe most potent threat so pulls his weapon. I think this is often missed in the CC v OC debate.And there is the fact that if he does so, he gets your gun as well as your wallet.
    If he was going to go after you either way, and you fail, he gets both regardless.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487

    Post imported post

    VAopencarry wrote:
    Element of Surpise? Does that mean when a bad guy has a gun pointed at your head you will be surpised your concealed firearm will do nothing for you?
    I've never heard it said better on these forums! Can I use this?

    Edit: the post by bobernet was clear, succinct, and right on the money. It should be placed somewhere where those new to the forum will see it, and hopefully decide not to perpetuate the popular fallacies any longer.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hodgenville, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    1,261

    Post imported post

    Right to the point, I am.

    Even as a noob myself, I find it strange another noob comes into a forum as this oneand commences to explain he"prefers conceal carry".

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran XD-GEM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    New Orleans, Louisiana, USA
    Posts
    722

    Post imported post

    I think ya'll scared Captain Jack away.

    Jack, if you're still lurking about, there's an excellent thread headlined "The Open Carry Argument" that you really should read.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum6/12053.html

    XD-GEM

    P.S. It's really not nice to come in as a guest and insult the other party-goers; but welcome aboard anyway.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    , Oregon, USA
    Posts
    100

    Post imported post

    zoom6zoom wrote:
    I prefer to carry concealed as open carry an invitation for some-one to make a grab for exposed fire-arm.
    Oh, geez - not this old chestnut again. I don't think we've ever had anyone able to cite a verifiable incidence of this happening.
    Now I've seen it on those reality cop shows on T.V. were officers have had their weapons wrestled away or the bad guy grabbed the weapon and held the officer at gun point, but not in the main stream media though.I believe these occasions to be rare and the fact that these police officers were dealing with a desperate individual to be some contributing factors. I can honestly say, I've never heard a story were someone snatched a weapon from an OCer and used it against them. I'm sure it has happened though, and with some supposedly well trained professionals it happens without a doubt.

    OC vs. CC is justan argument in comfort in my opinion. If one wishes to carry a gun they better be sure, mature and wise in its use no matter how they wish to carry. That is a judgment call for the individual to work out with himself and environment. I really find no use for the argument one way or the other. Trying to understand either side of the argument is futile and non productive for anyone already opinionated. But I do know anti- gun individuals love the chance to beat down a right exposed.





  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Southeast, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    5,974

    Post imported post

    It is an LEO's job to corner and apprehend the sorts of people who will in desperation try to take their sidearm and shoot them with it, so certainly gun grabs for LEOs are a not uncommon occurrence and a occupational hazard.

    We LAC OCers on the other hand want to end the threat and keep the sorts of people who will in desperation try to take our sidearms and shoot us with it as far away from ourselves as possible.

    That difference makes all the difference for 99.9% of us day to day and I think also explains 1) why LEOs always use the gun grab scenario as why not to OC as it is a real part of their carrying life and 2) why no one can cite a verifiable case of this happening to a non-LEO LAC OCing.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Manhattan, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    309

    Post imported post

    Sure I've got a badge.

    Two, in fact.

    They're on the grips of my sidearm; gold with "S&W" engraved on them.

  23. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193

    Post imported post

    XD-GEM wrote:
    I think ya'll scared Captain Jack away.
    Hmm, it appears his username is Caption Jack. I wonder which is the typo.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487

    Post imported post

    Doug Huffman wrote:
    XD-GEM wrote:
    I think ya'll scared Captain Jack away.
    Hmm, it appears his username is Caption Jack.Â* I wonder which is the typo.
    Will the mystery ever be solved? :shock:

  25. #25
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193

    Post imported post

    marshaul wrote:
    Doug Huffman wrote:
    XD-GEM wrote:
    I think ya'll scared Captain Jack away.
    Hmm, it appears his username is Caption Jack. I wonder which is the typo.
    Will the mystery ever be solved? :shock:
    You may find the mis-direction trivial.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •