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*DO YOU HAVE A BADGE*

deepdiver

deepdiver

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
5,820
Location
Southeast, Missouri, USA
imported post

It is an LEO's job to corner and apprehend the sorts of people who will in desperation try to take their sidearm and shoot them with it, so certainly gun grabs for LEOs are a not uncommon occurrence and a occupational hazard.

We LAC OCers on the other hand want to end the threat and keep the sorts of people who will in desperation try to take our sidearms and shoot us with it as far away from ourselves as possible.

That difference makes all the difference for 99.9% of us day to day and I think also explains 1) why LEOs always use the gun grab scenario as why not to OC as it is a real part of their carrying life and 2) why no one can cite a verifiable case of this happening to a non-LEO LAC OCing.
 
A

asforme

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
839
Location
Kalamazoo, MI
imported post

deepdiver wrote:
It is an LEO's job to corner and apprehend the sorts of people who will in desperation try to take their sidearm and shoot them with it, so certainly gun grabs for LEOs are a not uncommon occurrence and a occupational hazard.

We LAC OCers on the other hand want to end the threat and keep the sorts of people who will in desperation try to take our sidearms and shoot us with it as far away from ourselves as possible.

That difference makes all the difference for 99.9% of us day to day and I think also explains 1) why LEOs always use the gun grab scenario as why not to OC as it is a real part of their carrying life and 2) why no one can cite a verifiable case of this happening to a non-LEO LAC OCing.
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LEOs have to fear a gun grab because they are attempting to subdue criminals using hand to hand combat and close range tools.

I simply want to end any threat to my life without fear of such an event. This is why I have not found a good reason to carry OC spray or less than lethal weapons, because I have no intention of engaging in close range combat with a threat. If I am unable to escape the situation then I will brandish, and if the threat continues, I will end the threat.
 
C

Caption Jack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
11
Location
, ,
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I must admit, there weresomegoofs that replied to my post, buttheywere justflamers. My hats off to some of youthat made an excellent reply that actually made since.You have the mentality of people that will succede in getting OC passed intolegislation.

As for the gentlemen that chose to brandish firearm to avoid attacker, good luck.

We always assume there isone bad guy, while in reality there may be several. Theymay flank you from all sides.Criminals aren'talways stupid or cowards, some grew up on the streets,seen lots of action and there darn suretuff.

Always try and avoid an area that is easy setup for these hoodlums,whether you choose to OC /or/ CC. Adangerous place can be as simpleas thepublic restroom, always pick a stall, our go tourinal invery corner to watch for anyone tryingflank you.While you take care of bussiness, keep an eye out for thosebehind you. They might be gay...lol,but theyalso might be armed. The worstsilent killer is the knife, it makes little noise as it rips the juglar.

Captain Jack, retired military
 
T

Theseus

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
964
Location
Lamma Island, HK
imported post

Caption Jack wrote:
I must admit, there weresomegoofs that replied to my post, buttheywere justflamers. My hats off to some of youthat made an excellent reply that actually made since.You have the mentality of people that will succede in getting OC passed intolegislation.

As for the gentlemen that chose to brandish firearm to avoid attacker, good luck.

We always assume there isone bad guy, while in reality there may be several. Theymay flank you from all sides.Criminals aren'talways stupid or cowards, some grew up on the streets,seen lots of action and there darn suretuff.

Always try and avoid an area that is easy setup for these hoodlums,whether you choose to OC /or/ CC. Adangerous place can be as simpleas thepublic restroom, always pick a stall, our go tourinal invery corner to watch for anyone tryingflank you.While you take care of bussiness, keep an eye out for thosebehind you. They might be gay...lol,but theyalso might be armed. The worstsilent killer is the knife, it makes little noise as it rips the juglar.

Captain Jack, retired military
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And I have to say, if brandishing the gun will prevent me having to kill an attacker I would do it and feel good about it. Just because I carry to defend myself doesn't mean I look forward to killing anyone, and most especially hope I never have to. I will brandish it all day long if it means I don't have to take a life to defend myself.
 
S

S.E.WI

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
137
Location
Racine, Wisconsin, ,
imported post

OC is the only legal way in WI. A badge? How do we know the one on a detective is real when he/she is OC? The thing is that you should feel free to stop and shoot the bull with someone that has a gun in a holster on their hip. We are not your enemy. The day may come where you just might be asking for help and would you prefer a shrug of the shoulders instead? There is no desire to act as a cop but I wouldn't want to stand by and see you killed any more than I would want to just stand by and watch my wife or grandchildren get killed, which is all I can do in this state.
 
rodbender

rodbender

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
2,519
Location
Navasota, Texas, USA
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Criminals will always CC. This due to the fact that they know they are not suppose to have guns in their possession. If they OC, then they might be recognized by a LEO that busted them for something and will go back to jail. They rarely go to another part of town or state when released. They almost always go back to where they know people and want toflockwith the birds of the same feathers.
 
S

Slayer of Paper

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
460
Location
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
imported post

rodbender wrote:
Criminals will always CC. This due to the fact that they know they are not suppose to have guns in their possession. If they OC, then they might be recognized by a LEO that busted them for something and will go back to jail. They rarely go to another part of town or state when released. They almost always go back to where they know people and want toflockwith the birds of the same feathers.
Click to expand...
Now you just need to inform LEOs of this, so they will stop harrassing law abiding citizens.
 
rodbender

rodbender

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
2,519
Location
Navasota, Texas, USA
imported post

Slayer of Paper wrote:
rodbender wrote:
Criminals will always CC. This due to the fact that they know they are not suppose to have guns in their possession. If they OC, then they might be recognized by a LEO that busted them for something and will go back to jail. They rarely go to another part of town or state when released. They almost always go back to where they know people and want toflockwith the birds of the same feathers.
Click to expand...
Now you just need to inform LEOs of this, so they will stop harrassing law abiding citizens.
Click to expand...
Most already know it. They just don't care.
 
I

irfner

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
434
Location
SeaTac, Washington, USA
imported post

Self defense can take more than one form. We often hear "if you pull your gun, shoot". It is not unusual for a BG to change his mind once a CCer pullshis weapon. So you were defended without shooting. But deterrents are also self defense. If you are carrying a gun OC you can be conked on the head and your gun taken. But this can also happen if you are CCing. You could get conked and robbed even if you are unarmed. For the unarmed there is no deterrent. If you are CCing you must pull andbrandish your weapon for it to become a deterrent. In other words the assault is already in progress before your weapon becomes a factor. If you are OCing the BG can see this and must be willing to risk his life. Why would he when there are so many unarmed victims available. Guns themselves are cheap and readily available so why die to get one? OC then becomes the only actual deterrent.

In summary CC responds to an assault. OC deters an assault. Either can be used to stop an assault.
 
XD-GEM

XD-GEM

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
722
Location
New Orleans, Louisiana, USA
imported post

irfner wrote:
<SNIP>
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If you are OCing the BG can see this and must be willing to risk his life. Why would he when there are so many unarmed victims available. Guns themselves are cheap and readily available so why die to get one? OC then becomes the only actual deterrent.

In summary CC responds to an assault. OC deters an assault. Either can be used to stop an assault.
Click to expand...


This reminds me of the car theft deterrent value of "The Club." When it was needed before chipped keys, The Club could easily be defeated by cutting the steering wheel; but that took time. Why waste time cutting a steering wheel when you can steal an un-Clubbed vehicle? Less time for the crime means less risk of exposure to being caught.

Same logic applies.
 
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