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Thread: Self Defense stories not reported

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    The Self Defense Files:
    True Stories of Armed Self-Defense
    for January, 2001

    Robert A. Waters
    published: 02.01.01


    This month brought numerous reminders of why many Americans own guns. But these stories were nowhere to be seen on ABC, CBS, CNN, or NBC. They weren't news to editors of the New York Times, the Washington Post, or the Los Angeles Times.

    Overlooked by the mainstream media, these accounts show how lives are saved when law-abiding citizens own firearms.

    Forty-five home invasions occurred in Chattanooga, Tennessee between October, 2000 and January, 2001. But on the night of January 12, the home invasions came to an abrupt end. Two masked gunmen burst through the door of Tiffany Bibbs's home. When the mother, who was holding her baby, attempted to dial 911, one of the robbers knocked the phone out of her hands. Then the assailants forced the four occupants of the house to give up their money and jewelry. As they were leaving, one of the intruders snatched Bibbs's baby from her arms and ran outside. Gerald Lamar Beverly, a visitor in the home, grabbed a handgun and followed the robbers. The assailant placed the baby on the porch and began shooting at Beverly. The visitor returned fire. When police arrived, Beverly and an armed neighbor were standing over the body of Mica Kaba Townsend. Beverly was not charged. There have been no more home invasions reported in Chattanooga since January 12.

    On January 11, in Atlanta, Christopher Quilling and his girlfriend were relaxing at home when three armed men kicked down the back door and entered. As the intruders attempted to rob the couple, Quilling's Rotweiller attacked one of the gunmen. This gave the homeowner time to retrieve his own 9mm semiautomatic pistol. In a furious gunbattle, one robber was killed and a second was taken to a local hospital where he was listed in critical condition. Quilling, who was shot in the leg, was released from the hospital the same night. Police ruled the shooting self-defense.

    On January 16, Cumberland County, Tennessee restaurant owner Spiro Poulos shot two armed robbers. Wearing ski masks, they entered his pizzaria and held a pistol to his head. When the men demanded money, Poulos pulled his own gun and fired four times. One of the robbers was hit, and the other fled. The business owner, according to police, acted in self-defense.

    On January 19, a grotesque series of events ended the life of an Akron, Ohio armed robber. Saleh Husein, owner of Kelly's Mini Mart, was working the counter when David Id-Deen entered the store, pulled a gun, and ordered the business owner to "freeze." Husein, whose brother had been murdered by a robber a year before, retrieved his own handgun and blasted four shots at Id-Deen, grazing his head. The robber panicked, dropped his weapon, and fled. Running into the street outside the store, Id-Deen was struck by an oncoming car and died of a broken neck. Husein was not charged.

    In other cases, an armed man in Houston was shot and killed while attempting to rob a car stereo shop; the manager of a bar in Phoenix shot and killed one of four robbers; a homeowner in Portsmouth, Virginia shot a teenager who tried to break into his home; a store clerk in Tulsa, Oklahoma killed an armed robber; and a Phoenix father shot and killed a man who forced his way into the home.

    And so it goes.

    On January 26, a Merrillville, Indiana man used his handgun to save himself and his wife. His daughter's boyfriend, upset because the parents intended to move to Texas, threatened Thor Moody and his wife with a semiautomatic pistol. The Moodys ran to their bedroom and slammed the door shut. When the teen began shooting through the door, Moody grabbed a handgun and returned fire, driving the boyfriend from the house. The teen was quickly arrested. Thor Moody was treated for a minor wound to the arm and released from the hospital that night. No charges were filed against Moody.

    On the afternoon of January 27, Johnny Tyson, attempted to rob Lin's Super Market in Savannah, Georgia. Tyson struck store owner Xiao Ming Lin in the face with a brick, knocking him to the floor. The robber then jumped the counter and attempted to open the cash drawer. Lin's son, also working at the store, drew a .38-caliber revolver and opened fire, killing Tyson. Major Willie Lovett of the Savannah Police Department refused to file charges against the owner's son. "People have the right to protect their property and themselves," he said.

    On January 28, at 3:30 a.m., a teenager entered the business office of the Spenard Motel in Anchorage, Alaska. Holding a gun to the head of the clerk, he demanded money. The robber became agitated when he didn't get the amount he wanted. The clerk, thinking he would be killed by the gunman, pulled his own handgun and shot the robber five times. The clerk was not charged. The same could not be said for the robber.

    These are just a few cases of armed self-defense that went unreported by the mainstream media in January, 2001. Because of this shameful neglect, many Americans have a distorted view of guns. The media will never convince people of their fairness and objectivity until they begin to cover these stories.

    I am always thinking the what if scenarios. I find myself always in condition yellow when I am sitting in my home, I guess it's because I can't see through walls, and someone can be at my door and I not know it. These home invasion stories are the reasons why I am this way. When I am home, from the time I wake up, until the time I go to sleep, I always have a gun on me, (thanks to the J- frame) I am always anticipating someone trying to run in my house.
    I like how the author comment at the start and the end of this article, there is really a need to show our community that guns are not bad, but it is the individual that's behind the gun that makes the difference. I strike up conversations with young people here, of all races, and I notice that a lot of them, don’t agree with owning a pistol, I am shocked at this. If one would just look at the world, at America, they will see that there are bad people in this world that could not care less about you or your family, why would anyone not own a gun, and why would anyone try to take that right away from us? No matter my reasoning to the people here, they don’t feel the need to be armed. I just don’t understand it. At least I know that the people on OCDO sees the need to be armed and this site is a huge aid to change the perception on guns in our society.


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    Nice post Alwayspacking.....

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    I work for a company that does windows. A few weeks ago, this old guy comes in with a bent up window screen. His explanation went something like this:"That damn neighbor kid musta thought I wasn't home last night, being as how I had parked my truck down the street. well it must have been 2 in the morning and I heard a racket at the bedroom window so I grab my shotgun, even though it wasnt loaded and go on in to check it out. well, that boy was half way through when I shoved the muzzle right up under his chin and asks him what the hell he thinks he's doin.... he says,'well i thought youd have some money or somethin in here', well the kids only thirteen or so and I figured I would teach him a good lesson, so I pullt that trigger and when that hammer clicked that boy sure enough pissed his drawers. Anyway, I need to get this screen repaired today, as he'll be the one payin for it!" ...... we laughed, and my boss says, he'd a shot him and dragged him on in, but the blood splatters might got him on that. So the old man says: " I told him next time it'd be the .45,.... that ones always loaded and there won't be no discussion!":?


    I assumed he had the .45 handy. But there is no gang activity here. Even the tweakers do not rob people's homes except when they know they are not home. Almost everyone has a gun. Seems to work out well.

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    How Long Does it Take
    to Die?

    Robert A. Waters
    One of the arguments the gun-banners use is that victims of crime should call police and let the authorities handle the situation. As James Brady said, "For defense of the home--that's why we have police departments."

    An examination of two cases, however, would seem to put the lie to that statement.

    On July 16, 2000, a woman at Greenwood Village Apartments in Denver, Colorado did just what Brady recommended. At 8:40 p.m., she dialed 911. Although she was unable to speak when dispatchers answered, they could hear sounds of a struggle. Because the apartment's address didn't show up in the 911 system, it took eight minutes for police to find the location of the call.

    When they arrived, officers found a man with a bloody knife standing over a dead woman. In another room, a three-year-old child was screaming. The murderer, a rejected lover, had attacked and killed his former girlfriend sometime during the eight minutes it took police to arrive.

    Contrast that with the following case.

    This is the actual transcript of a 911 call from Maria Pittaras to the Pasco County, Florida Emergency Communication Center. The call came in at 1:51 a.m., August 10, 2000.



    Dispatcher: "911."

    Pittaras: "I just shot a man, a man was just in my house, and tried raping me, and I shot him, oh my God." (Gasping for breath.)

    Dispatcher: "Ma'am."

    Pittaras: (Unintelligible screams.) "He's still alive! Come quick."

    Dispatcher: "Ma'am, calm down."

    Pittaras: "He's still alive. I heard him in there."

    Disptacher: "All right, what's the address?"

    (Pittaras tells the dispatcher her address.)

    Dispatcher: "You say a man broke into your house?"

    Pittaras: "Yes. Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God! I heard him in there!"

    Dispatcher: "All right. What kind of a gun is it?"

    Pittaras: "I don't know. I don't know. Oh my God. Oh my God. How long will it take for the police to get here? Oh my God."

    Dispatcher: "We're getting an ambulance on the way over there right now."

    Pittaras: "Please hurry, he's still alive, he's going to come back after me."

    Dispatcher: "All right, stay on the phone. I'm going to put you through to the Sheriff's Office, okay?"



    According to the St. Petersburg Times, Robert Metz broke into Maria Pittaras's home through a guest bedroom window. A family man who lived a few doors down, he pulled a nylon mask over his face, and climbed on top of the sleeping woman. Pressing a knife to her throat, Metz threatened to rape her.

    Pittaras reached into a night-stand and pulled out a loaded .38-caliber revolver. In her panic, she fired a shot into the wall. Then she pressed the gun against the intruder's neck and squeezed the trigger. Although Pittaras didn't know it at the time, Metz died almost instantly.

    It was only moments later that the frightened woman's 911 call came in.

    "How long will it take police to get here?" Pittaras asked the dispatcher. The question hung in the air, a plaintive plea for someone to come fix the problem. But the police had not been there when the attack began, and it would be ten more minutes before they would arrive.

    Maria Pittaras had been left alone to fix her own problem.

    Forutnately, unlike the woman in Denver, she had a gun and knew how to use it.

    Let's examine what Pittaras's options would have been had she not had a gun.

    When she awoke with the masked man on top of her pressing a knife to her throat, she could have tried to talk her way out of the situation. Those odds aren't good, of course, but they're better than nothing.

    Or Pittaras could have meekly submitted and prayed that her assailant wouldn't kill her. Indeed, that's one of the alternatives recommended by many so-called experts. If you give in, they say, maybe the assailant will let you live. It's better to suffer the trauma of having been violated than to fight back. In this case, as in many others, submtting would almost certainly have been a death sentence since her attacker was a neighbor who would have feared being recognized.

    Pittaras could have fought back with her hands, or pepper spray, or some other weapon. This would have undoubtedly enraged her assaiant, causing him to inflict even more harm on her.

    The gun-banners' best solution for surviving violent confrontations is to call the police. But that was obviously not an option in this case. Had Pittaras even had a telephone next to her, Metz would have physically restrained her as she attempted to call for help.

    None of the above options offered any real portection to Maria Pittaras.

    What does offer protection to rape victims, or victims of domestic violence, or victims of assault?

    Guns.

    A few days after killing Metz, a Times reporter inteivewed Pittaras.

    "I understand that I did what I had to do," she said. "But I'm never going to be a normal person again. Every day I'm going to have to come to terms [with the fact] that I took a man's life, a man with a family."

    Pittaras paused, then continued, "I know I'll get past this, but I'll never forget it. And I don't think I'll ever stop wondering why it had to happen."

    Unlike the victim in Denver, Maria Pittaras survived.

    But sometimes survival isn't pretty


  5. #5
    Regular Member MetalChris's Avatar
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    Good finds man, thanks!

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Great posts!
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    On one hand, these stories are inspiring, knowing that there are Americans who will stand up and defend their lives instead of going quietly.

    On the other hand, I think of the people I care about who go through the world unarmed, and how they would most likely succumb to such violent attacks due to their hoplophobia and/or denial that bad things happen.

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    We all have heard the mildly humorous lines like, "goin to a gunfight?, bring a gun"; etc.... The following was not reported for obvious reasons, but it was mildly amusing.

    I was single and dating a woman with a 15 year old son. The three of us were in the car, in the left turn lane(upon arrow), the green arrow appeared and apparently I was a half a second turning, so the guy behind me honks. I pay that little attention, instead focusing on the immediate right turn I had to make into a 7/11, I pull in & park! Suddenly, the guy that was behind me was parked on my right side. I told the lady to lock her door, cause I was going in for cigs.



    When I get out of the car, this dude is going wild & headed around the rear of my car to get to me. As he rounds the corner I saw the flash of what turned out to be a long machete. I immediate drew my .45ACP, pointed it directly at his head and said, "Didn't yo momma ever tell ya not to bring a knife to a gunfight" (I'm thinkin, first time I ever got to do that- cool) since I'd been a street Fed my whole career, I wasn't all that worried. I mean I wasn't going to shoot the idiot, unless he got dumber. Some and the dude are exchanging words, and I find out that the reason he freaked was because, when he honked, the 15 year old threw him the bird from my backseat. Stupid lil ****. There are several things that you NEVER, ANDI MEANNEVER DO IN PHOENIX! Topping that list is honking, followed by the finger. The kid figured I'd cover his ass! WRONG!

    ME & THE DUDE WITH THE BLADE MADE NICE AND HE LEFT. I dumped the kid out of the car 5 miles from home. I told him that while he was walkin he should think about the idea of never letting your actions write a check that your ass can't cash; and then expect someone else to cover your six.

    End of story took mamma home, never saw her again! No Harm, No Foul, and a Lesson Learned, I Hope.

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    Alec, great story, but for petes sake, shrink your font and do it in black...I have a headache now....

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    Ernie I am sorry Bro. Thanks!

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    Alec411 wrote:
    ...the reason he freaked was because, when he honked, the 15 year old threw him the bird from my backseat.
    So that warrants an armed response? If I were in that situation, there would've been no words exchanged, but rather between 5-14 loud "popping" sounds.

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    METAL:

    WHOA, THERE WAS NO NEED TO DISCHARGE MY WEAPON, I WAS NOT IN ANY WAY, IN FEAR FOR MY LIFE, AND HAVING DONE IT SEVERAL TIMES, I DO NOT PARTICULARLY ENJOY TAKING A LIFE.

    IN THE AFTERMATH, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN LEARNED THATI WAS A SPECIAL AGENT WITH 30+ YEARS OF EXPERIENCE, IN ADDITION TO 3 COMBAT TOURS AS A SNIPER.

    DIGGING INTO MY RECORD, THE DA WOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM. HE COULD ESTABLISH THAT BY EXPERIENCE I HAD TAKEN THINGS UP TO AN UNNECESSARY LEVEL, JUST SOI COULD SHOOT. THE WHOLE PROBLEM WAS SOLVED WITH MY MERE DISPLAY OF A GUN.

    RETIREMENT IN JAIL HAS NO APPEAL TO ME. I DO NOT CARE WHAT THE LAW SAYS, IN A SHOOTING, YOU ARE GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT. BEEN THROUGH SHOOTING REVIEWS. i PERSONALLY FAVOR SEX!

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    Regular Member MetalChris's Avatar
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    Alec411 wrote:
    METAL:

    WHOA, THERE WAS NO NEED TO DISCHARGE MY WEAPON, I WAS NOT IN ANY WAY, IN FEAR FOR MY LIFE, AND HAVING DONE IT SEVERAL TIMES, I DO NOT PARTICULARLY ENJOY TAKING A LIFE.
    If a dude circles around my car and comes at me with a machete, I'm going to assess that my life is in danger. There will be no words exchanged. He will be perforated.

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    You're not getting the message METAL.

    What I am trying to tell you, is that many shooting reviews later, that I sat in on, you are going to trial. If he is closer than 10 Ft with it raised in a threatening manner, maybe you'd get by, but you better have told him to drop it, and then he advanced or you're toast.

    You're talking TV, the movies, etc.; I'm talking a real court with a DA



    WILL SOMEONE TALK TO METAL??

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    Regular Member MetalChris's Avatar
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    Alec411 wrote:
    When I get out of the car, this dude is going wild & headed around the rear of my car to get to me. As he rounds the corner I saw the flash of what turned out to be a long machete.
    What the f*ck are you smoking man? You say I'm living in a fantasy world, but only in a fantasy world do you exchange words with a madman armed with a machete and come out alive.

    Will somebody please talk to Alec?
    ETA: You must have a pretty long car for him to have been more than 10 feet away. Besides, that 10 foot "limit" you cite is bullcrap...it's an established fact that21 feet is a reasonable distance to engage an agressor coming at you with a blade. Field experience my ass.

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    MetalChris wrote:
    Alec411 wrote:
    METAL:

    WHOA, THERE WAS NO NEED TO DISCHARGE MY WEAPON, I WAS NOT IN ANY WAY, IN FEAR FOR MY LIFE, AND HAVING DONE IT SEVERAL TIMES, I DO NOT PARTICULARLY ENJOY TAKING A LIFE.
    If a dude circles around my car and comes at me with a machete, I'm going to assess that my life is in danger. There will be no words exchanged. He will be perforated.
    Wow! A real, true to life, "shoot first and ask questions later" kind of guy! Boy, we need more of THOSE running around like we need mandatory licensing! (<--- Sarcasm)

    Seriously, can you agree it would have to depend on circumstances? Would you draw and give the guya moment to recognize he's made a potentially fatal mistake? I would think shooting should be the option of last resort.

    Obviously the guy must've been on the shallow end of the gene pool to be responding to the finger with a machete, but I don't think it would be any wiser to instantly respond with gunfire.

    And I am curious, Alec411, did I read correctly thatyou've actually taken life "several times"? How about you, MetalChris, ever kill anyone? My reason for asking is this: Does actually killing someone change your willingness to use lethal force into more of a tactic of last resort? I would think so, but want to hear what you think.

    ...Orygunner...

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    Orygunner wrote:
    MetalChris wrote:
    Alec411 wrote:
    METAL:

    WHOA, THERE WAS NO NEED TO DISCHARGE MY WEAPON, I WAS NOT IN ANY WAY, IN FEAR FOR MY LIFE, AND HAVING DONE IT SEVERAL TIMES, I DO NOT PARTICULARLY ENJOY TAKING A LIFE.
    If a dude circles around my car and comes at me with a machete, I'm going to assess that my life is in danger. There will be no words exchanged. He will be perforated.
    Wow! A real, true to life, "shoot first and ask questions later" kind of guy! Boy, we need more of THOSE running around like we need mandatory licensing! (<--- Sarcasm)

    Seriously, can you agree it would have to depend on circumstances? Would you draw and give the guya moment to recognize he's made a potentially fatal mistake? I would think shooting should be the option of last resort.

    Obviously the guy must've been on the shallow end of the gene pool to be responding to the finger with a machete, but I don't think it would be any wiser to instantly respond with gunfire.

    And I am curious, Alec411, did I read correctly thatyou've actually taken life "several times"? How about you, MetalChris, ever kill anyone? My reason for asking is this: Does actually killing someone change your willingness to use lethal force into more of a tactic of last resort? I would think so, but want to hear what you think.

    ...Orygunner...
    Wow. Just wow.

    When a madman is coming at you with a machete, there is no time to really "think" you draw and fire. DUH.

    Unless of course I'm missing something here...
    ETA: No I've never killed anyone. Came close once, but didn't have to pull the trigger.

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    MetalChris wrote:
    ...only in a fantasy world do you exchange words with a madman armed with a machete and come out alive.
    MetalChris wrote:
    When a madman is coming at you with a machete, there is no time to really "think" you draw and fire. DUH.

    Well, unless Alec411 made it all up, it seems to have worked out just fine.

    I would have to agree, the best tactic would be to backpedal away from the threat while drawing your weapon and giving orders to STOP, PUT IT DOWN! DROP IT!. Only then if the idiot continues to advance are you truly justified in shooting.

    Youmight legally get by with it under some of the castle doctrine laws, but in the situation Alec411 described, I just don't think it would be right to shoot first without some sort of warning.

    ...Now, if you can shoot the machete out of his hand, that would not only be OK, thatwould be wicked cool!... (kidding)
    ...Orygunner...


    Edited to add second MetalChris quote.

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    MetalChris, You asked what you may be missing... I think you're assuming too much about the encounter.

    1. I don't think the guy with the machete was a madman, just a little short on common sense.

    2. the distances involved weren't that critical, 10 ft, 15 ft, whatever. I understand the 20 ft scenario, where an attacker within 20 ft. can attack you before you can react, draw & fire. This guy didn't seem (from the description) to be RUNNING full tilt around the car intent on chopping away. If he was, youwould be correct, you probably would only have time to draw & fire and would be justified in that.

    3. The guy was ranting away walking around the car with a Machete in hand, not raised to swing. I think the guy was more intent on intimidation with themachetethan any actual hack&slashing. Poor choice, yes.

    4. As Alec411 said, he didn't feel his life was in danger. I disagree, he must've thought it was in some danger, otherwise he would not have drawn his firearm. However, I think that if he thought the guy was an IMMINENT unavoidable threat, I'm sure he would have fired.

    That's the stuff I think you're missing. I'm sure Alec411 would agree that in some circumstances, an attacker within 20 feet would warrant immediate draw & fire with no questions or words exchanged, but it's not any sort of set-in-stone rule. It obviously was not warranted in this case. If it was, we wouldn't have heard the story from Alec411.

    ...When the only tool you're prepared to use is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail...
    ...Orygunner...

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    Orygunner wrote:
    MetalChris wrote:
    ...only in a fantasy world do you exchange words with a madman armed with a machete and come out alive.
    MetalChris wrote:
    When a madman is coming at you with a machete, there is no time to really "think" you draw and fire. DUH.

    Well, unless Alec411 made it all up, it seems to have worked out just fine.

    I would have to agree, the best tactic would be to backpedal away from the threat while drawing your weapon and giving orders to STOP, PUT IT DOWN! DROP IT!. Only then if the idiot continues to advance are you truly justified in shooting.

    Youmight legally get by with it under some of the castle doctrine laws, but in the situation Alec411 described, I just don't think it would be right to shoot first without some sort of warning.

    ...Now, if you can shoot the machete out of his hand, that would not only be OK, thatwould be wicked cool!... (kidding)
    ...Orygunner...


    Edited to add second MetalChris quote.
    Dangit man, you're right...something you have to considerthough, is how fast the guy is coming at you. Sometimes there isn't time for anything but drawing and firing. That split second makes a difference when you only have a car length between you and the perp.

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    I am sorry guys, I agree with Metal.

    The guys is parked righ next to your car, come around the corner of the car with weapon in hand. Your buy your car door, he has about 5 feet. He can clear that space in about 1.5 seconds and showing intent to do so.

    I would have been condition black (Line drawn in sand aready crossed). Weapon drawn, fired, threat neutralized. 911 called. Weapon secured.


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    If a guy in the car next to me in a parking lot gets out, with a machete in hand, I'm drawing my weapon, no doubt about it; now if he advances towards me or has it raised in an aggressive posture before I have a chance to direct said person to drop their weapon, I'm not taking the time to say anything before firing. If they are simply standing there, but aren't advancing or doesn't have it raised in an attack posture, they will be directed to drop it. I will hold them at gunpoint until the police arrive or he pushes the situation by making an aggressive move towards myself or someone else, to where I am forced to fire on said BG.

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    It is easy to comment on a situation when you aren't even there. I get the impression that most people who say "just kill them" haven't been in many real situations as it shows a lack of maturity. I look at self-defense situations similar to car accidents. It is better to avoid a car accident than be in one that is not your fault. Sure, it isn't your fault but you have to get your car fixed, wait until their insurance pays you, and potentially even have to get treated for injuries. A defensive situation is the same way. I'd rather quickly neutralize the situation, get my soda and go, and get on with my life. I used to be more of that "just kill them" type not too long ago but I have seen quite a bit and it just isn't sound thinking. You will not be the same after taking a life. Just like a car accident, even though you are in the right, you will still have to deal with a lot after a self-defense shooting. You will be under the legal radar, you will have psychological problems (i.e. you are not just going to go to work right after killing someone as if nothing happened), and you could be in more serious danger from the dead person's family, gang member friends, or even crooked cops.

    You should handle a defensive situation similar to how law enforcement would handle it. You escalate and de-escalate up and down the scale as many times as necessary. When the threat is neutralized, you either detain and restrain the person or you go your separate ways. I own firearms as well as pepperspray and a taser. I have thought about actually getting a pair of handcuffs. I am not an LEO but when you are dealing as a citizen with a third-party defense situation you are basically acting as an LEO in place of one's absense. An LEO would likely draw on the person and tell them to put the knife down. Once the knife is down, they will remove the knife from the person's reach, handcuff them, and take them downtown. As a citizen, if you think you can stop a dangerous situation without actually having to deploy deadly force, it may make sense to draw the weapon, detain the person, and wait for the police. I would rather do that than shoot them unless absolutely necessary.

    The thing to remember is that we are not vigilantes. I don't go around looking for a situation to "handle." If and when a situation occurs, it will happen at a time where it is an inconvenience to me. As in this case, your objective is to go into the 7-11, buy something, and leave. If there is a situation that is interfering with that objective, I want to handle it as quickly as possible so I can get back to my objective. Detaining or running a bad guy off is far less of an interference to whatever you were doing than explaining why you turned another person in a public place into a piece of meat.



  24. #24
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    ORYGUNNER:

    PerhapsI should have responded to your inquiry privately, but I really would like all to receive the message. Ory, I was for a very long time s sniper in S.E. Asia. I rarely say Nam because most of my assigned kills were in Laos and Cambodia, at a time that Congress had forbidden a ground presence there. I enlisted in the USMC, but soon found myself qualified for special training/assignments while on TDY with an entity with stars carved into the wall above the receptionist in Virginia. During that time a number of long range and CQB killswere necessary, each documented. After military service my partner and I attended college & were recruited to works for a large gov't Department. We spent over 30 years together on the streets as GS-1811's, TDY's were also a fact of life then. My partner and I worked in many covert FO's, until his assassination (5, .357 Mag in back at home) There were obviously conflicts that involved the loss of lives, but I am still here.



    You see, I have examined and experienced all of the feelings that accompany the taking of another's life. In a one-on-one CQB there is no problem I could discern, clearly him or me, no second thoughts. If you we handling a specific assignment, say a 800 yard pop of a guy drinking a beer & laughing with his friends it did differ, but the requirements of the assignment remained unchanged. Once completed there may, or may not have been feelings; but it seemed that NECESSITY overrode all of those. I knew grunts that truly enjoyed killing, I don think I know a pro that got off on it,twas a job, duty, and it savedAmerican lives overseas!

    The only "carry-over" benefit is that, I KNOW, THAT I KNOW, THAT I KNOWI CAN KILL, if I absolutely have to.



    CAN I? Is one of the most importantquestions you'll ever face. You must find that answer prior to "the moment", I pray you never have to face. If you house doubt, winning only becomes that much more difficult.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
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    Jun 2008
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    TRIPLE-TAP:

    Where was the line in the sand, apparently you would feel that something like,"drop the weapon. or you take on step, I'm blowin your DICK into the dirt"; weren't necessary, or appropriate, etc.... Here we are short on details. Certainly there are times when utter a word isn't possible, the take your shot!

    Please rememember that I was relating an example of a real event that happened to ME!!!

    I point out what happened, and how I handled it! Perhaps you would have done it diffrently.

    If I had to make a single Point; one thing that as a pro for years & years I, and others noticed, it is that those that stay in the game because they enjoy killing, are either discovered and at minimum, weeded out, or in their haste to zap someone, they get careless, and BANG! THEY DIE! In anycase, you cannot criticise my methods - you were not there! The confrontation ended in the best possible way for this kind of thing in Phoenix; no one hurt, no one dead, and lessons learned.

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