Self Defense stories not reported

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I am sorry guys, I agree with Metal.

The guys is parked righ next to your car, come around the corner of the car with weapon in hand. Your buy your car door, he has about 5 feet. He can clear that space in about 1.5 seconds and showing intent to do so.

I would have been condition black (Line drawn in sand aready crossed). Weapon drawn, fired, threat neutralized. 911 called. Weapon secured.

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If a guy in the car next to me in a parking lot gets out, with a machete in hand, I'm drawing my weapon, no doubt about it; now if he advances towards me or has it raised in an aggressive posture before I have a chance to direct said person to drop their weapon, I'm not taking the time to say anything before firing. If they are simply standing there, but aren't advancing or doesn't have it raised in an attack posture, they will be directed to drop it. I will hold them at gunpoint until the police arrive or he pushes the situation by making an aggressive move towards myself or someone else, to where I am forced to fire on said BG.

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It is easy to comment on a situation when you aren't even there. I get the impression that most people who say "just kill them" haven't been in many real situations as it shows a lack of maturity. I look at self-defense situations similar to car accidents. It is better to avoid a car accident than be in one that is not your fault. Sure, it isn't your fault but you have to get your car fixed, wait until their insurance pays you, and potentially even have to get treated for injuries. A defensive situation is the same way. I'd rather quickly neutralize the situation, get my soda and go, and get on with my life. I used to be more of that "just kill them" type not too long ago but I have seen quite a bit and it just isn't sound thinking. You will not be the same after taking a life. Just like a car accident, even though you are in the right, you will still have to deal with a lot after a self-defense shooting. You will be under the legal radar, you will have psychological problems (i.e. you are not just going to go to work right after killing someone as if nothing happened), and you could be in more serious danger from the dead person's family, gang member friends, or even crooked cops.

You should handle a defensive situation similar to how law enforcement would handle it. You escalate and de-escalate up and down the scale as many times as necessary. When the threat is neutralized, you either detain and restrain the person or you go your separate ways. I own firearms as well as pepperspray and a taser. I have thought about actually getting a pair of handcuffs. I am not an LEO but when you are dealing as a citizen with a third-party defense situation you are basically acting as an LEO in place of one's absense. An LEO would likely draw on the person and tell them to put the knife down. Once the knife is down, they will remove the knife from the person's reach, handcuff them, and take them downtown. As a citizen, if you think you can stop a dangerous situation without actually having to deploy deadly force, it may make sense to draw the weapon, detain the person, and wait for the police. I would rather do that than shoot them unless absolutely necessary.

The thing to remember is that we are not vigilantes. I don't go around looking for a situation to "handle." If and when a situation occurs, it will happen at a time where it is an inconvenience to me. As in this case, your objective is to go into the 7-11, buy something, and leave. If there is a situation that is interfering with that objective, I want to handle it as quickly as possible so I can get back to my objective. Detaining or running a bad guy off is far less of an interference to whatever you were doing than explaining why you turned another person in a public place into a piece of meat.

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ORYGUNNER:

PerhapsI should have responded to your inquiry privately, but I really would like all to receive the message. Ory, I was for a very long time s sniper in S.E. Asia. I rarely say Nam because most of my assigned kills were in Laos and Cambodia, at a time that Congress had forbidden a ground presence there. I enlisted in the USMC, but soon found myself qualified for special training/assignments while on TDY with an entity with stars carved into the wall above the receptionist in Virginia. During that time a number of long range and CQB killswere necessary, each documented. After military service my partner and I attended college & were recruited to works for a large gov't Department. We spent over 30 years together on the streets as GS-1811's, TDY's were also a fact of life then. My partner and I worked in many covert FO's, until his assassination (5, .357 Mag in back at home) There were obviously conflicts that involved the loss of lives, but I am still here.



You see, I have examined and experienced all of the feelings that accompany the taking of another's life. In a one-on-one CQB there is no problem I could discern, clearly him or me, no second thoughts. If you we handling a specific assignment, say a 800 yard pop of a guy drinking a beer & laughing with his friends it did differ, but the requirements of the assignment remained unchanged. Once completed there may, or may not have been feelings; but it seemed that NECESSITY overrode all of those. I knew grunts that truly enjoyed killing, I don think I know a pro that got off on it,twas a job, duty, and it savedAmerican lives overseas!

The only "carry-over" benefit is that, I KNOW, THAT I KNOW, THAT I KNOWI CAN KILL, if I absolutely have to.



CAN I? Is one of the most importantquestions you'll ever face. You must find that answer prior to "the moment", I pray you never have to face. If you house doubt, winning only becomes that much more difficult.

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TRIPLE-TAP:

Where was the line in the sand, apparently you would feel that something like,"drop the weapon. or you take on step, I'm blowin your DICK into the dirt"; weren't necessary, or appropriate, etc.... Here we are short on details. Certainly there are times when utter a word isn't possible, the take your shot!

Please rememember that I was relating an example of a real event that happened to ME!!!

I point out what happened, and how I handled it! Perhaps you would have done it diffrently.

If I had to make a single Point; one thing that as a pro for years & years I, and others noticed, it is that those that stay in the game because they enjoy killing, are either discovered and at minimum, weeded out, or in their haste to zap someone, they get careless, and BANG! THEY DIE! In anycase, you cannot criticise my methods - you were not there! The confrontation ended in the best possible way for this kind of thing in Phoenix; no one hurt, no one dead, and lessons learned.

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+1 to Alec411.

Thank you for your response. A simple yes or no would have been cool enough, but I thank you for filling out some detail, and also personally thank you for serving our country.

You're right, none of us were there, and I certainly can't see a reason to be critical of your choices because of the positive outcome. Others faced with a similar situation may choose differently, and/or afterwards regret their decisions.

Perhaps someone else in the same situation might have judged their life threatened and pulled the trigger, and believed to be justified doing it. I guess wisdom, judgement and experience (or lack of them) contributes greatly to the outcome, good or bad.

Heh, just remembered this, it seems to fit the situation:

God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot shoot,
The courage to shoot the people I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference

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...Orygunner...

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AMEN!!!!

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I believe ALEC411 made the right call for his particular situation. Let's face it, he was there and we weren't. Until you've been there you have no idea what it's like to handle something like that. Let me clue you in a little.



In April of 1988 I was transferred to NAVSTA San Diego and rented a little house right on the edge of Balboa Park. At the time there was a vicious street gang in the area, so I bought a .357 for home defense, and started going to the desert every weekend I was home for target practice.

Flash forward to 1990. Desert Shield is just starting and my ship has received orders to go to the Gulf. Life is one big ball of stress. One night when i couldn't sleepI got up and went to the living room to read a little. About 3:30 I started hearing a commotion in the street, followed by someone yelling. Grabbing my .357 I went to see what was going on.

In the intersection was a man, screaming for help. I could see other lights coming on in other houses, but everyone stayed indoors. I asked the guy what was going on and he told me that he had just been attacked by a gang in the park. As he walked under the streetlight I could see where he'd been stabbed at least three times. I could also see shadows slinking from one parked car to another and figuredI needed to get this guy inside and call the police and an ambulance.

By this time my wife and two young children were awake, so I told her to take the man inside, geteveryone into the middle of the house, and call 911. Bless her heart, she did exactly that without any questions. While this was happening the rest of the gang showed up and i found myself facing about a dozen Hispanic teens, carrying weapons of different sorts. THAT is whenI drew the .357 from behind my leg where I'd been hiding it and pointed it straight at the "enemy", telling them that the first one to make a wrong move would be the first to die. That pretty much stopped them in their tracks.

To make an already long story short the police and ambulance showed up, the gang melting away as soon as they heard the sirens. The police took their report. The ambulance took their patient, andI sat on the short wall around our house and shook...and shook...and shook.I shook for a few hours until the fear and the adrenaline shook themselves out.

Facing someone down with a handgun is one of the scariest things that can ever happen to you. If you have any kind of decency in you the LAST thing you want to do is to shoot someone. Unfortunately, life is NOT fair and there ARE bad guys out there, so sometimes you have to do what you'd rather not do.

That's whyI tend to laugh at people who show bravado without a trial by fire.

I learned a few things, though. One of which is that I CAN draw down on another human being. I also learned that I have fairly good judgement in a tight spot.

The most important thing I learned, though,was to stop by the store and get more ammo on the way back from the desert. I had faced down an armed gang with just two rounds of .38 SWC

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I pointed a gun at a person a long time ago, and my hand was shaking like crazy, also I got tunnel vision at the time. I was much younger then, but now with my mental mind set, I could draw down on someone again if needed to. Because I know if I ever had to pull my weapon it will be because myself or my family will bein danger of being killed. I would have no problem doing what I can to keep my family alive.

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Alwayspacking wrote:

I pointed a gun at a person a long time ago, and my hand was shaking like crazy, also I got tunnel vision at the time. I was much younger then, but now with my mental mind set, I could draw down on someone again if needed to. Because I know if I ever had to pull my weapon it will be because myself or my family will bein danger of being killed. I would have no problem doing what I can to keep my family alive.

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Like just about anything else I imagine it gets easier each time you do it. Thank God we don't have to do it often.

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Bookman wrote:

Alwayspacking wrote:

I pointed a gun at a person a long time ago, and my hand was shaking like crazy, also I got tunnel vision at the time. I was much younger then, but now with my mental mind set, I could draw down on someone again if needed to. Because I know if I ever had to pull my weapon it will be because myself or my family will bein danger of being killed. I would have no problem doing what I can to keep my family alive.

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Like just about anything else I imagine it gets easier each time you do it. Thank God we don't have to do it often.

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Yep, and my time in the Army shooting guns and trainingreally prepped my mind i think. Also bywatching the news and reading the paperone should see in this world it is shoot or be shot by the BG.

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Alwayspacking wrote:

Bookman wrote:

Alwayspacking wrote:

I pointed a gun at a person a long time ago, and my hand was shaking like crazy, also I got tunnel vision at the time. I was much younger then, but now with my mental mind set, I could draw down on someone again if needed to. Because I know if I ever had to pull my weapon it will be because myself or my family will bein danger of being killed. I would have no problem doing what I can to keep my family alive.

Click to expand...

Like just about anything else I imagine it gets easier each time you do it. Thank God we don't have to do it often.

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Yep, and my time in the Army shooting guns and trainingreally prepped my mind i think. Also bywatching the news and reading the paperone should see in this world it is shoot or be shot by the BG.

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I was Navy. We had very limited weapons training.

How are things in Qatar?

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It's veryhot, sandy, dusty, the food is not good, but getting better. But I can't complain, I am here by choice, but after tasting of home and some really good people,I may not be here much longer.

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Bookman wrote:

Alwayspacking wrote:

I pointed a gun at a person a long time ago, and my hand was shaking like crazy, also I got tunnel vision at the time. I was much younger then, but now with my mental mind set, I could draw down on someone again if needed to. Because I know if I ever had to pull my weapon it will be because myself or my family will bein danger of being killed. I would have no problem doing what I can to keep my family alive.

Click to expand...

Like just about anything else I imagine it gets easier each time you do it.

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I agree. That's why I go around randomly pulling my sidearm on people who look stereotypically criminal like so I can be sure I can do it right if the time comes. :what:

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Good job difusung the guy, but you should have calmed the guy down then opened the car door and told the kid he better get out and deal with it.:shock:

Back him up of cource so he doesn't get hurt, but he would have been very carefull forever after about who he flipped off.

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I live in Arizona but there is a cultural element here that is very disturbing which Alec's story touched upon. I have noticed here how you are not supposed to confront people for fear of violent retaliation such as honking at other drivers or directly confronting people in public places. I have also spent time in the New England states and while many of them are not gun-friendly, they seem to exhibit a level of class and there is no problem confronting people. While I do think it is stupid to unnecessarily aggrevate a situation such as flipping someone off, people are so afraid to say anything to people even when it is totally warranted. Here, it is the norm for people to act stupid, dress like trash, and be inconsiderate and yet if you dare say anything you end up in a fight with them. Could you imagine in Manhattan if someone was just standing around blocking people's way with nothing to do? Everybody would be screaming at the person to hit the road. Here you dare say something and they already have a fist clenched and another hand in their pocket as if to grab a weapon. Or these gang-bangers will approach you or stare you down and again you don't say anything. You wouldn't see that in rural Vermont because the town police would run them out of town and no questions asked.

We have a real catch-22 in Arizona. People recommend "don't say anything to people and don't honk or they will shoot you or otherwise attack you." But that is not realistic or a quality way to live life. If someone is behaving out of line, they need to be told and it is protected free speech and you have the right not to be a victim of violence simply for telling someone to shape up their behavior. As much as I try to avoid problematic situations, it does seem like eventually I will have to shoot someone because I feel like in daily life we decent normal people are completely overrun by disturbed obnoxious individuals waiting for an excuse to start something. I nearly got into a fight with someone simply because I accidently bumped the person's shoulder in line.Back East someone will get mad and say "you are an idiot" whereas here it is "I'm going to kill you." I don't believe in living in fear but I don't want to turn into a Charles Bronson either. As long as decent people are afraid to legitimately confront people who are public nuissances, our safety will continue to diminish because these disturbed individuals will consider themselves licensed to behave that way. You do have the right to flip someone off or honk at them if they are being a jerk and they don't have the right to threaten to kill you. Again, not to start becoming Charles Bronson but with the way this culture is going, it may get to the point where the few normal gun-carrying folks get tired of this crap, have no problem saying a few choice words, and then when the idiot pulls a knife, you pull a gun, and there is one less of them out there. Their friends may think twice about their behavior lest they join the rest of them six-feet under for their stupidity.

Not to go on, but yes it makes sense to avoid situations but people are so damn stupid that you pretty much can't avoid it. I try to be as unbiased as possible in my assessments but it does seem like that a random analysis of a random public place be it a restaurant, grocery store, bank, or gas station will show that a very high number of people are behaving inappropriately either by blocking your way, being loud and obnoxious, or having their kids run around out of control. Again, don't dare say anything or they will shoot you!

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Alwayspacking wrote:

Yep, and my time in the Army shooting guns and trainingreally prepped my mind i think. Also bywatching the news and reading the paperone should see in this world it is shoot or be shot by the BG.

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I prepped my mind through thousands of hours of "murder simulation" playing Doom, Quake, Unreal Tournament, Half-Life, etc. etc.

...I know I could draw down and fire on any humanoid demon, space alien, or other monstrosity with no hesitation or moral reservations...
...Orygunner...

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PROTECTOR: You are right about the almost sheeple culture that runs thru a part of AZ culture. Part of it is urban Myth. ie... "if a car is approaching, at nite, and his lights aren't on; don't flash your lights" THE MYTH: If you flash your lights and the car contains GB's, they'll turn around & shoot you. I'm a Bondurant Grad, if a car does a quickie u-turn behind me, I am prepared(not necessarily going ) to spin a 180, and spray his windshield with 40 rds! Unless... I just remain alert!

I agree with the vast differance between the southwest and the northeast, and I've worked in both places as a FLEO. A gang Banager tries to stare me down & he's in tears b/4 I finish my verbal response. I had a confront at a 7/11 type place in Newark. When I came out four guys were having a fight, which was ok, but they were bouncin' each other off of Uncle Sam's car. After dropping three without display a gun, they lined up, like Wave Two was about to start, at that point (disparity) I pulled a 1911 and let it hang at my side, and said,"Okay guys, now this next pass is gonna be a MF"....dey gone!

But Protector is right, in most areas, a confrontation, usually ends when it's determined, who talks the best "trash"! It's expected, but it doesn't mean you allow yourself to get less vigalent.

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protector84. I understand and agree what what you said, basically you are saying there are people that are just looking for the simplest of things to give them a reason to assault someone. I have seen it before. When I lived in NC I was at a night club, and after the club was over we were all standing outside of a eatery, and a beat up car rear ended another nicer car. The guy in the nice car got out of the car to look at the damage. He did not get upset, everything seemed normal. But a passenger in the other car got out and said a few words and just shot that guy and took off running. :shock:. For no reason at all this guy got shot. That was in the early 90sand things are not any better today, so you know people will attack someone over the simplest of things.

There is one point that I do notagree with you on, and that is that even us that carry should spout off at one of the jerks that act a fool to correct them. Well I think that just gives the DA ammo to run with, that you knowing yourself being armed instigated the confrontation. Also with some of these people charter you know they may respond back with aggression, so why even provoke it?I agree we should not be in fear to speak up, but if it is done it should be with meekness, and not in the same likeness as they (the BG)may have to one of us. A soft answer turns away wrath.

I myself carry myself in meekness, gentleness and kindness everywhere I go. Yet Iappearto be a light hearted andserious person, because I am. When I hear people say something to me out of order, for the most part I ignore it. Because I just ratheravoid the confrontation. But if I am ever confronted, then thats when a different side of me is shown. But I can say thisin 31 years of life, I have only once, andthat was in Qatar, been confronted with a threat on the streets and I had to stand my ground with the guy, that was because I could not walk away because he was coming at me and I had tobe ready for a attack.

Carrying a firearm does not embolden me to act out of charter. It adds in my confidence to defend myself and my familyonly.


Correction it was 2x I got angry at someone for disrespecting me. ones I returned the finger, the other I had a few choice words.

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OK... lets go back to the'scenario'. I pull into a convience store lot... Some goof... for whatever reason appears and is advancing on mewith a machete in hand. I am the obvious target. Point: He's armed. I draw my 1911-A1 and fire one shot center of mass. No conversation. No 'Drop it!'... I'm not in the arrest business. (Used to be) At this point I'm in the self defense business. This is not reckless use of a firearm... This is countering a percievedimmediate lethal threat with deadly force IAW Art 26 of the Constitution of the State of Arizona. Then I safe and secure my weapon 'ncall 911. I am not obligated to render or attempt to render 1st aid to the perp. Since I'm not in the habit of carrying nitrile gloves 'n a face mask... I won't. If the perp is still standing with the weapon in hand after the first shot... I will shoot him again. I will keep shooting until the weapon or he drops... or both. I've shot in self defense before... w/o hesitation. I don't carry that thing for a fashion statement. It's like a fire bottle. When you need it... use it. That's what it's there for.