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Thread: Running more.

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    I have started to run more, since yo101jimmy started running with me, and we are planning on running 7 milers, (okay some walking) (okay, probably a lot of walking)

    Anyway, for a longer run such as this, I would like to have my weapon with me, but don't want to OC. So how could I keep the firearm with me without having it concealed?

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    You don't want to OC or CC? I wonder if you stick it where the sun don't shine if that's considered concealed... :shock:

    haha j/k, but I don't know what you mean. You could securely encase it, but that seems bothersome. If you have your CC permit, check out: www.smartcarry.com

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    I don't have my permit. I'm only almost 20.

    I guess maybe I'll have to have it securely encased. Sigh.

    I don't want to OC, because it would interrupt my run and screw up my heart rate if I had to stop to talk to a LEO.

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    Sounds like you need a taser or pepper spray. I really don't think you'll want to run with a locked case in your hands.

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    I wear a hydration pack, and if that would count as securely encased than I would be good. But I don't think it does.

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    You mean like a camelbak? Unless you put it in a locked case first, it would be concealed.... and even then I don't know what it means to hide a case from sight (stupid nuances).

    Don't throw it in the camelbak by itself.

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    The case does not need to be locked, I know that. So quit saying locked. That's federal law, and there aren't any school zones on my route. Lucky me.



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    As I understand the law, that would be fine.But I'mfairly certainany officer would charge you with carrying a concealed weapon... Point is, it would be an illegal search if he were to find it anyways.

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    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    We have had this discussion before. To not be considered concealed, the weapon needs to be [Utah] unloaded, and securely encased.

    (18) "Securely encased" means not readily accessible for immediate use, such as held in a gun rack, or in a closed case or container, whether or not locked, or in a trunk or other storage area of a motor vehicle, not including a glove box or console box.

    You ever see all those guys wearing fanny packs, and think to yourself, "I bet he's packin."? Well, I bet they don't need a permit to carry in a fanny pack [or a CamelBak] as long as it is unloaded. A zipped up fanny pack, or back pack sounds like a closed container to me.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    We have had this discussion before. To not be considered concealed, the weapon needs to be [Utah] unloaded, and securely encased.

    (18) "Securely encased" means not readily accessible for immediate use, such as held in a gun rack, or in a closed case or container, whether or not locked, or in a trunk or other storage area of a motor vehicle, not including a glove box or console box.

    You ever see all those guys wearing fanny packs, and think to yourself, "I bet he's packin."? Well, I bet they don't need a permit to carry in a fanny pack [or a CamelBak] as long as it is unloaded. A zipped up fanny pack, or back pack sounds like a closed container to me.
    A zipped up fanny pack, or back pack sounds like a closed container to me.

    Never thought of it that way SGT. But YES, by golly, a fanny pack IS by the very definition "Securely encased" for a NON-Permit holder.

    BUT remember the part of 76-10-501 (15) that says

    15) "Readily accessible for immediate use" means that a firearm or other dangerous weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can be

    retrieved and used as readily as if carried on the person.


    TJ

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    Clark Aposhian sent me a text back saying that a Fanny Pack is OK as long as it's NOT on the Person as per 76-10-501 (15)

    15) "Readily accessible for immediate use" means that a firearm or other dangerous weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can be

    retrieved and used as readily as if carried on the person

    TJ

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    Well it kinda sounds like your best option just might be OC on the cammel back, I under stand you don't want to be stopped while your running, that would suck, but I doubt it would happen every time you went out.

    Just expect it to happen eventually I guess, it would just be better to have something for your defence get stoped and questioned, than to not have anything and need it.

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    usSiR wrote:
    Well it kinda sounds like your best option just might be OC on the cammel back, I under stand you don't want to be stopped while your running, that would suck, but I doubt it would happen every time you went out.

    Just expect it to happen eventually I guess, it would just be better to have something for your defence get stoped and questioned, than to not have anything and need it.
    The Camel Pack is still as if carried on the person.

    He is sorry out of luck. OC....IS the only option til he gets a Permit.

    TJ

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    thx997303 wrote:
    The case does not need to be locked, I know that. So quit saying locked. That's federal law, and there aren't any school zones on my route. Lucky me.

    whoa buddy, calm down... i'm trying to help. I naturally assumed you would pass a school zone on a 7 mile run. Luckily you don't. But if you stick it in a bag, then you're concealing and you can't argue your way around that.

    For future reference, I would have preferred "hey, I'm not going by any schools but thanks for the concern".

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    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    usSiR wrote:
    Well it kinda sounds like your best option just might be OC on the cammel back, I under stand you don't want to be stopped while your running, that would suck, but I doubt it would happen every time you went out.

    Just expect it to happen eventually I guess, it would just be better to have something for your defence get stoped and questioned, than to not have anything and need it.
    The Camel Pack is still as if carried on the person.

    He is sorry out of luck. OC....IS the only option til he gets a Permit.

    TJ
    He did say open carry on the CamelBak. :P
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    Clark Aposhian sent me a text back saying that a Fanny Pack is OK as long as it's NOT on the Person as per 76-10-501 (15)

    15) "Readily accessible for immediate use" means that a firearm or other dangerous weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can be retrieved and used as readily as if carried on the person

    TJ
    Well, there goes my argument for unlicensed fanny pack carry.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Sarnt might be in agreeance with me on this.... and this next point is of my own comment... but dont take it with you... why... help me out sarnt " cause I can run faster scared than you can pissed! "

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    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    thx997303 wrote:
    The case does not need to be locked, I know that. So quit saying locked. That's federal law, and there aren't any school zones on my route. Lucky me.
    You mean that Meadow Elementary and Willowcreek Middle School are not on you running route? :?


    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Regular Member yo101jimmy's Avatar
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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    thx997303 wrote:
    The case does not need to be locked, I know that. So quit saying locked. That's federal law, and there aren't any school zones on my route. Lucky me.
    You mean that Meadow Elementary and Willowcreek Middle School are not on you running route? :?

    I see 2 schools in the route A and C

    ”The great body of our citizens shoot less as times goes on. We should encourage rifle practice among schoolboys, and indeed among all classes, as well as in the military services by every means in our power. Thus, and not otherwise, may we be able to assist in preserving peace in the world… The first step – in the direction of preparation to avert war if possible, and to be fit for war if it should come – is to teach men to shoot!”
    ~President Theodore Roosevelt

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Dang, should have looked closer. Yep owned.

    I guess carry aint going to happen.

  21. #21
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    Unless you change your route to avoid school zones. However, running is easier without a pistol. You could carry like this...



    Or you could run with a rifle in your hands.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  22. #22
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    That would be ideal. I know running with a pistol is more difficult. So is running with a pack.

    I would definitely rather run with a rifle. But i don't thin that police will ignore me.

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    thx997303 wrote:
    I don't have my permit. I'm only almost 20.

    I guess maybe I'll have to have it securely encased. Sigh.

    I don't want to OC, because it would interrupt my run and screw up my heart rate if I had to stop to talk to a LEO.
    Legally, a fully zippered case INSIDE your back pack, would be legal for everything but the federal school zones as long as the gun is Utah unloaded. For the federal school zones, you'd need to lock the case someway. At this point, your accessability to the gun is so slow as to make it little more than extra weight.

    With the school zones (and I'm guessing the map does NOT include licensed day care facilities in private homes) permitless OC is not an option for you either, legally.

    I think as othes have suggested, your best bet is to carry something other than a firearm: batton, pepper spray, taser, etc. Then, make sure to take the CCW class and submit your permit application the first day you legally can.

    You might also consider a Maine permit as others have done, though that also does not technically cover you in school zones.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    Charles, I have a question about the following statute.

    76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.
    (1) This part and Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, do not apply to any of the following:
    (a) a United States marshal;
    (b) a federal official required to carry a firearm;
    (c) a peace officer of this or any other jurisdiction;
    (d) a law enforcement official as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
    (e) a judge as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
    (f) a common carrier while engaged in the regular and ordinary transport of firearms as merchandise; or
    (g) a nonresident traveling in or through the state, provided that any firearm is:
    (i) unloaded; and
    (ii) securely encased as defined in Section 76-10-501.
    (2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1)(a), (1)(b), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:
    (a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or
    (b) by another state or county.


    Is 76-10-505.5 its own section, or is it a subsection of 76-10-505? If it falls under 76-10-505, wouldn't the above statute exempt a permit holder from any state from carrying in a school zone?
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  25. #25
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Well, I would get the Maine permit, except I'm going to basic training in about three weeks, and so I would never get it in time.

    And when I get back, I will be 21 so I'll get my CCP when i get back.

    In the meantime I guess I gotta deal with some of these crap laws. Oh well.

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