Community Turns Out to Observe Open Carry Rally in Hastings, Michigan Thursday, July 24

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Story wasn't bad at all, except now I am extremely pissed at the Brady Campaign and Peter Hamm. I give blood every 8 weeks for free to the local people, I am a volunteer firefighter, serve on the local HUD housing commission for low income people in our community, as well as give time to the local Relay for Life campaign. I give my time and volunteer for many organizations and here he is saying because I wear a gun on my hip I am not a good volunteer. maybe I am just a better multi tasker then he is I guess.

On a side note, after reading the Brady campaign's mission statement, I would think they are for every single law abiding American wearing a gun on thier hip openly. That will stop gun violence faster then banning most guns, at least in my opinion and proven my DC's gun ban.



Thread hijacking over now, was a really nice press release, and looks like your event turned out great. Well organized and sounds perfect, hats off skip!

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SpringerXDacp wrote:

Illegal: Carrying a gun into a church, bank, court, theater, sports arena, day care center, hospital or bar.

Correct, if you're concealing. Incorrect, if you're open carrying with CPL (except court room). This is a bad message to send. The anti observes OCer in bank, for example,and places the MWAG call.

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It's legal to carry concealed in a bank (with a CPL).

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Michigan has an extremely complex set of rules for off limits places arising from the overlay of at least 2 statutes.

The last time I looked at this, only a person with a concealed handgun permit could open carry in a hospital, but he could not concealed carry. It has been said a similar off wrinkle exists for banks.

You guys should put in a cleanup bill to remove all these off limits areas for everyone, and just make the distinction of concealed/not concealed requires a permity/does not require a permit.

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Saw this on the news! WAY TO GO!! Someday Ill be able to get to one of those.

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SpringerXDacp wrote:

Illegal: Carrying a gun into a church, bank, court, theater, sports arena, day care center, hospital or bar.

Correct, if you're concealing. Incorrect, if you're open carrying with CPL (except court room). This is a bad message to send. The anti observes OCer in bank, for example,and places the MWAG call.

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(1)[/b] Sec. 234d (1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

b) A church or other house of religious worship.

c) A court.

d) A theatre.

e) A sports arena.

f) A day care center.

g) A hospital.

h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act.



(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession

of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

b) A peace officer.

c) [/b]A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon[/b].[/b]

d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.







[font="Arial, Helvetica"]Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:[/font]

1. 
   [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian
   [/font]
2. 
   [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.
   [/font]
3. 
   [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Sports arena or stadium
   [/font]
4. 
   [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises
   [/font]
5. 
   [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons
   [/font]
6. 
   [font="Arial, Helvetica"]An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more
   [/font]
7. 
   [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A hospital
   [/font]
8. 
   [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university
   [/font]
9. 
   [font="Arial, Helvetica"]ACasino[/font]

When I read the first passage it tells me that I can CC in any of those places as long as they are not spelled out as pistol free zones under the CC rules. The second passage does not specify financial institutions so it is legal to CC there. It seems that I could also CC in a movie theater as long as it seats less than 2500 people (does anyone know how that applies to multi-screen theaters? Is it for each individual theater or the facility as a whole?)



At least that's how I read it. Has there been any official opinion from the AG on OC/CC in banks?



Bronson

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I'm really curious about this too, Michigan CPL laws are confussing at best. It seems like those two laws conflict with each other in a bad way. :banghead:

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Bronson wrote:

SpringerXDacp wrote:

Illegal: Carrying a gun into a church, bank, court, theater, sports arena, day care center, hospital or bar.

Correct, if you're concealing. Incorrect, if you're open carrying with CPL (except court room). This is a bad message to send. The anti observes OCer in bank, for example,and places the MWAG call.

Click to expand...

(1) Sec. 234d (1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

b) A church or other house of religious worship.

c) A court.

d) A theatre.

e) A sports arena.

f) A day care center.

g) A hospital.

h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act.



(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession

of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

b) A peace officer.

c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.







[font="Arial, Helvetica"]Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:[/font]

1. 
   [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian
   [/font]
2. 
   [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.
   [/font]
3. 
   [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Sports arena or stadium
   [/font]
4. 
   [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises
   [/font]
5. 
   [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons
   [/font]
6. 
   [font="Arial, Helvetica"]An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more
   [/font]
7. 
   [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A hospital
   [/font]
8. 
   [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university
   [/font]
9. 
   [font="Arial, Helvetica"]ACasino[/font]

When I read the first passage it tells me that I can CC in any of those places as long as they are not spelled out as pistol free zones under the CC rules. The second passage does not specify financial institutions so it is legal to CC there. It seems that I could also CC in a movie theater as long as it seats less than 2500 people (does anyone know how that applies to multi-screen theaters? Is it for each individual theater or the facility as a whole?)



At least that's how I read it. Has there been any official opinion from the AG on OC/CC in banks?



Bronson

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This question was answered by Jim Simmons over at MGO forums. He basically said that until it either gets tested, or an AG opinion comes out, nobody knows.

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Bronson wrote:

SNIP
When I read the first passage it tells me that I can CC in any of those places as long as they are not spelled out as pistol free zones under the CC rules. The second passage does not specify financial institutions so it is legal to CC there. It seems that I could also CC in a movie theater as long as it seats less than 2500 people (does anyone know how that applies to multi-screen theaters? Is it for each individual theater or the facility as a whole?)



At least that's how I read it. Has there been any official opinion from the AG on OC/CC in banks?



Bronson

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Per MCRGO FAQ's:

[align=left]One of the places that I cannot carry concealed is, "An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals..." (MCL 28.425o. In a movie theater complex (example 18 screens) is the number of seats the total of each individual room or the total of all rooms combined?

A:
The word "facility" is not defined in the statute. When a word does not have a statutory meaning, the dictionary definition applies. One of the meanings given for "facility" in the American Heritage dictionary is, "Something created to serve a particular function." An entertainment facility is something created to supply entertainment. Therefore, the 2,500 seating capacity rule applies to the entire movie complex and not just one theater within the complex.[/align]

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Greggy_D wrote:

SpringerXDacp wrote:

Illegal: Carrying a gun into a church, bank, court, theater, sports arena, day care center, hospital or bar.

Correct, if you're concealing. Incorrect, if you're open carrying with CPL (except court room). This is a bad message to send. The anti observes OCer in bank, for example,and places the MWAG call.

Click to expand...

It's legal to carry concealed in a bank (with a CPL).

Click to expand...

Per MSP Gun Free Zones: Yes, CC in banks is OK. I'm glad, because I do.

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Mike,

No need to put out a clean up bill, I wouldn't trust our government representatives to not take the opportunity to diminish our rights. The law is not complex, it is clear cut and easy to understand.

If you are open carrying without any type of CPL, you follow the "pistol free zones" information. Once you have a CPL you are no longer obligated to follow those at all for any type of carry and must only follow the Concealed carry laws. The only wierd part is the CPL laws specify you cannot conceal carry into such and such a place. So in theory places where you can't conceal carry you can still open carry. This has been asked and answered so many times it is funny that people still ask about it. There is a states police and a AG response as well, it is not complex at all, perhaps strange, but simple for anyone who reads the relevant laws. Although prolly not simple for the bank tellers at my two banks, but they know m and trust my knowledge on the subject and don't ask me to leave nor do they call the police here on it.

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northofnowhere wrote:

Mike,

No need to put out a clean up bill, I wouldn't trust our government representatives to not take the opportunity to diminish our rights. The law is not complex, it is clear cut and easy to understand.

Click to expand...

So, rules like "concealed carriers can carry in hospitals but only openly" are clear cut and easy to understand?

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Absolutely easy to understand if you read it. Stupid yes, but easy to understand. There are plenty of other stupid laws on the books all over the country, why should gun laws be any differient

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I wish I would've known about this group prior to the Hastings event. I am glad there's such a movement and I had no idea there were so many people interested in open ( and presumably concealed) carry.

This group is very interesting to me and I'm glad I've "discovered" it.

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Dan F. wrote:

I wish I would've known about this group prior to the Hastings event. I am glad there's such a movement and I had no idea there were so many people interested in open ( and presumably concealed) carry.

This group is very interesting to me and I'm glad I've "discovered" it.

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Welcome to OCDO Dan. If you have the time, come to the Warren picnic. Yeah, I know, Warren is a bit of a drive from Cadillac.

ETA: Picnic in Warren: August 16th.

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Thanks for the links, it was good to raise awareness like that.

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Since last week I've had dozens of emails and calls. People are asking me to hold another event. I think the next one will be in the Upper Peninsula or in Lansing. Still haven't decided yet.

Stay tuned.

Skip Coryell
www.mwtac.com
www.skipcoryell.com

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SkipCoryell wrote:

Since last week I've had dozens of emails and calls. People are asking me to hold another event. I think the next one will be in the Upper Peninsula or in Lansing. Still haven't decided yet.

Stay tuned.

Skip Coryell
http://www.mwtac.com
http://www.skipcoryell.com

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You can tell them about the event in Warren August 16th at Veterans Memorial Park, or the meeting at the charity event hosted by the Flint's Lions club. Michigan OC members will be Manning a booth and donating money to the charity's cause. For information see the threads on this site. As for a Lansing event we had one this spring in downtown during a Run for Cancer Cure event, see thread.

I have carried openly into the capital building and the staff is now aware that OC is legal there. But an open carry event on the Capital grounds might be feasible.

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SkipCoryell wrote:

Since last week I've had dozens of emails and calls. People are asking me to hold another event. I think the next one will be in the Upper Peninsula or in Lansing. Still haven't decided yet.

Stay tuned.

Skip Coryell
http://www.mwtac.com
http://www.skipcoryell.com

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Why the UP or Lansing? No body will care up in da UP and it's already been done in Lansing.

Why not downtown Birmingham, Bloomfield Hills, Troy, Detroit, Plymouth or Royal Oak?

And NOT on a Thursday, people have to work you know. Do it on a Saturday afternoon or evening in Royal Oak where there will be hundreds of people too see and educate.