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Thread: This was posted on USConcealedCarry.org

  1. #1
    Regular Member ThunderRanch's Avatar
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    I realize it is not necessarily Open Carry related, but the following was posted on USConcealedCarry.org's forum and is a scary testimonial to the Illinois LEO mindset!

    "Being in Illinois Law enforcement, if I see printing of a weapon, believe me, you have given me probable cause to believe you have a gun. I will pull my gun and order you to keep your hands away from your body. I will handcuff you and retrieve that weapon and place you under arrest. As for conceal carry state, the same thing applies, but once I see you're a card carrying CCW person I will remove the handcuffs, give you your gun back and tell you to be more careful.

    I guess, if cops see a printing, you CCW wearers better do what the nice police officer tells you to do so you don't get shot."

    I hope this one bad apple isn't representative of the LEO's on the street!
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist in 1764.

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    Well, Illinois is no-issue. The carrying of a concealed weapon by anyone not protected by Federal law in doing so is committing a gross misdemeanor, and if they carry where alcohol is sold or into a government building it's a felony plain and simple.

    I do hope that states that issue CCW permits are a little more understanding of "printing". Quite simply, if its in your waistband, the bulge will be noticeable if you're looking (and cops look). In Texas, a reasonable man must have no reasonable doubt that the bulge is a handgun for it to be a failure to conceal, and even then, the failure to conceal must be intentional. Now, that word has a slightly different meaning; "intentionally" means that you consciously chose to do something that directly resulted in a failure to conceal, whether that action was made with the intent to reveal the weapon or not.

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    ThunderRanch wrote:
    I realize it is not necessarily Open Carry related, but the following was posted on USConcealedCarry.org's forum and is a scary testimonial to the Illinois LEO mindset!

    "Being in Illinois Law enforcement, if I see printing of a weapon, believe me, you have given me probable cause to believe you have a gun. I will pull my gun and order you to keep your hands away from your body. I will handcuff you and retrieve that weapon and place you under arrest. As for conceal carry state, the same thing applies, but once I see you're a card carrying CCW person I will remove the handcuffs, give you your gun back and tell you to be more careful.

    I guess, if cops see a printing, you CCW wearers better do what the nice police officer tells you to do so you don't get shot."

    I hope this one bad apple isn't representative of the LEO's on the street!
    Basically his philosophy is to give non-residents a break, but not residents?

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    ThunderRanch wrote:
    "Being in Illinois Law enforcement, if I see printing of a weapon, believe me, you have given me probable cause to believe you have a gun. I will pull my gun and order you to keep your hands away from your body. I will handcuff you and retrieve that weapon and place you under arrest.
    I'll bet he'll stop doing that once he holds at gunpoint someone wearing a cellphone or other device under a shirt or jacket.
    A. Gold

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Shotgun wrote:
    ThunderRanch wrote:
    "Being in Illinois Law enforcement, if I see printing of a weapon, believe me, you have given me probable cause to believe you have a gun. I will pull my gun and order you to keep your hands away from your body. I will handcuff you and retrieve that weapon and place you under arrest.
    I'll bet he'll stop doing that once he holds at gunpoint someone wearing a cellphone or other device under a shirt or jacket.
    I'll bet he doesn't give a whit. Someone that self-righteous will self-justify any such incident. It is the Judge Dredd Syndrome.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Please, let this nimrod visit Pennsylvania. Please. Approximately 570,000 citizens licensed to carry concealed. And Open Carry is not illegal. Please, visit Pennsylvania with a mindset like that.

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    ilbob wrote:
    ThunderRanch wrote:
    I realize it is not necessarily Open Carry related, but the following was posted on USConcealedCarry.org's forum and is a scary testimonial to the Illinois LEO mindset!

    "Being in Illinois Law enforcement, if I see printing of a weapon, believe me, you have given me probable cause to believe you have a gun. I will pull my gun and order you to keep your hands away from your body. I will handcuff you and retrieve that weapon and place you under arrest. As for conceal carry state, the same thing applies, but once I see you're a card carrying CCW person I will remove the handcuffs, give you your gun back and tell you to be more careful.

    I guess, if cops see a printing, you CCW wearers better do what the nice police officer tells you to do so you don't get shot."

    I hope this one bad apple isn't representative of the LEO's on the street!
    Basically his philosophy is to give non-residents a break, but not residents?
    I don't think you are reading him right. He's just saying if he was in a concealed carry state he'd let you go without arrest because he can't, in Illinois he can and I'm sure he would. He sounds like a Chicago area cop or one with a "Chicago, guns are bad" mindset. There are too many of these in Illinois, though less in the far south. This is why if you are stopped and have firearms that are cased and being transported legally you don't consent to a search of your vehicle.

    Never assume that law enforcement knows the laws, I doubt that many know open carry is legal in unincorporated areas without ordinances against it.

    Even though concealed carry is not legal for most in Illinois it is for some like Mayors, Village Presidents, Trustees, Alderman and Marshalls if they have taken the required firearms course. It would be interesting for that Illinois cop to handcuff say Chicago Mayor Daley for carrying a handgun that was printing, especially if he was a Chicago cop. Yeah, I know Daley is anti-gun, but remember Dianne Fienstein has or had a carry permit in California. It is rumored that Daley carrys in an ankle holster.


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    I guess my main issues with this guy are two fold.....

    1. This whole "I guess, if cops see a printing, you CCW wearers better do what the nice police officer tells you to do so you don't get shot." statement is a real problem for me. He is certainly satating that if you don't comply with whatever he tells you to do, he will shoot you.
    2. The idea that he would pull his gun, handcuff you, illegally retrieve your weapon, and then do an "oops my bad" once he found out you were carrying legally. I understand that he is well within his rights in Chicago, but he clearly states the he would do the same thing in a state where it was legal to CC.

    Once again, to me, this really promotes the "Us versus Them" mentality and this guy should be pulled off the street until he gets his head clear!
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist in 1764.

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    junglebob wrote:
    Even though concealed carry is not legal for most in Illinois it is for some like Mayors, Village Presidents, Trustees, Alderman and Marshalls if they have taken the required firearms course. It would be interesting for that Illinois cop to handcuff say Chicago Mayor Daley for carrying a handgun that was printing, especially if he was a Chicago cop. Yeah, I know Daley is anti-gun, but remember Dianne Fienstein has or had a carry permit in California. It is rumored that Daley carrys in an ankle holster.
    What are the privacy laws in Illinois regarding releasing the names of the few permits they issue? On one hand it is a privacy issue, but on the other if they are public officals it would be interesting to have a count. Nothing hurts their anti cause more than to know that they are actually carrying!

    Also, I would assume that every cop in Illinois knows who and what Daley looks like. If he was printing, I don't think anyone would dare say anything let alone arrest him. The guy has way to much influence in and outside of Chiago. Besides his M4 toting security detail would nab you up in a second and you wouldn't be seen again. I might disappear for saying that now!

    Damn Chicago!

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    The biggest problem is the idea that he'd draw his weapon and order you to put your hands up. What the hell is up with that? Just because you see that someone is armed does not put you in a position to draw on them and threaten them with deadly force. Another problem is that he's escalating the situation. I only took a short one week training class on being a cop and they taught us that you should de-escalate the situation if possible and not the other way around. Nobody wants to get into a firefight over a fender bender. Maybe the cops in Chicago aren't given any training?

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    N00blet45 wrote:
    The biggest problem is the idea that he'd draw his weapon and order you to put your hands up. What the hell is up with that? Just because you see that someone is armed does not put you in a position to draw on them and threaten them with deadly force. Another problem is that he's escalating the situation. I only took a short one week training class on being a cop and they taught us that you should de-escalate the situation if possible and not the other way around. Nobody wants to get into a firefight over a fender bender. Maybe the cops in Chicago aren't given any training?
    Cops are being taught more and more to use force as a first choice in any encounter with anyone. They are alsobeing taught that anyone not in blue is the enemy and should be treated that way. Its almost amazing to me that most cops behave in acceptable ways most of the time considering what they are being taught.



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    One of the main reasons I'm so glad I moved out of Illinois. I remember when there were major stories reporting the Shaun Kranish issue, they had one blurb in there from an Illinois State Patrolmen who stated that they (LEOs) like it knowing that their residents aren't carrying guns, it makes it easier to know that those who are carrying are indeed criminals.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    You know, the more I think about this the more pissed off I get. Yes, you heard me, not irritated, not annoyed, pissed off. If I knew where this guy's jurisdiction is I would be highly tempted to find something like a pda or old "brick" cell phone that could appear to be a pistol grip, get a few friends with video cameras and go wander around his jurisdiction with my "concealed weapon" and wait for this ******* to pop me for doing nothing wrong. Frankly I could use the money. As we walked out of civil court as he is realizing that he is going to be writing me checks for damn near the rest of his life, I would graciously tell him what a self-righteous, piece of garbage, *$#@sucker he is.

    He is an authoritarian bully with a badge, the kind of guy who in 1945 wiped the blood of millions off his hands and said, "I was just following orders." I would like to pull that stick out of his butt and beat him with it. Threaten all the citizens of this nation with imminent lethal force for having a firearm even when, where and how it is legal? If we said we would threaten all LEOs with lethal force for just walking around doing something legal we could be jailed for making terroristic threats. This man does not need to have a badge. This man does not need to have any authority. This man definitely is too irresponsible and irrational to own or carry a firearm. This man needs a job cleaning toilets somewhere in penance for all the sh*t he has obviously given over the years.

    /rant

    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Statkowski wrote:
    Please, let this nimrod visit Pennsylvania. Please. Approximately 570,000 citizens licensed to carry concealed. And Open Carry is not illegal. Please, visit Pennsylvania with a mindset like that.
    Likewise, let him slide across the border to Indiana and 'catch' one of us printing. For starters there is NO LAW AGAINST IT. The ability to OC at will in Indiana is mighty handy.

    Let him pull that on me and he'll have a career changing event with the lawsuit for violating my civil rights. That's one of the more convincing ways to get this kind of crap stopped. Sorta like the Dickson Dozen...

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    Why could he just simply, walk over to the man, tell him not to make in sudden moves because he has seen the print of his gun. Thenask him if he has a CCW,tell him not to reach for his gun, and to show him the CCW? He could even place his hand on his own sidearm ready to draw...

    This is the attitude I do not like for LEO to have. Not everyone is a BG.

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    I'm somewhat confused by this. Is the LEO stating that if he is in another state and sees someone printing, he will hold them at gunpoint until he can verify that person has a CCW? If so, what gives an Illinois LEO the authority/jurisdiction to do this out of state? Also, what happens when he visits Alaska or Vermont, where no permit is required to CCW? Could the OP post a link to this forum thread so we can check it out?

    --RedKnightt--

    Zombie Squad has it right: “We hold fast to the belief that if you are prepared for a scenario where the walking corpses of your family and neighbors are trying to eat you alive, you will be prepared for almost anything.”

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    RedKnightt wrote:
    I'm somewhat confused by this. Is the LEO stating that if he is in another state and sees someone printing, he will hold them at gunpoint until he can verify that person has a CCW? If so, what gives an Illinois LEO the authority/jurisdiction to do this out of state? Also, what happens when he visits Alaska or Vermont, where no permit is required to CCW? Could the OP post a link to this forum thread so we can check it out?
    I don't know if this guy is strictly talking about Illinois or other states as well. But this kind of guy would probably think that HR 218 gives him every right to confront and harass law abiding citizens regardless of the state he is in. Having a digital recorder would be critical when you file charges against him in the state of incident and against his home agency for allowing a loose cannon to run amuck. Very sad that some LEO's might think/act like this.

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    As for conceal carry state, the same thing applies, but once I see you're a card carrying CCW person I will remove the handcuffs, give you your gun back and tell you to be more careful.
    Too late, nimrod, if you're in another state you've already committed assault, battery, false arrest under color of law, impersonating an officer, civil rights violations, and probably a few other laws, too.

    Just imagine if this idiot saw someone open carrying.

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    Regular Member ThunderRanch's Avatar
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    RedKnightt wrote:
    I'm somewhat confused by this. Is the LEO stating that if he is in another state and sees someone printing, he will hold them at gunpoint until he can verify that person has a CCW? If so, what gives an Illinois LEO the authority/jurisdiction to do this out of state? Also, what happens when he visits Alaska or Vermont, where no permit is required to CCW? Could the OP post a link to this forum thread so we can check it out?

    --RedKnightt--

    Zombie Squad has it right: “We hold fast to the belief that if you are prepared for a scenario where the walking corpses of your family and neighbors are trying to eat you alive, you will be prepared for almost anything.”

    ReKnightt, here is the link to the original thread on USConcealedCarry.org. This LEO's post that I quoted is about half way down page one of the thread.

    http://www.uscca.us/forum/showthread.php?t=7678

    Edited to add: His screen name there is jchbroker

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist in 1764.

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    ThunderRanch wrote:
    ReKnightt, here is the link to the original thread on USConcealedCarry.org. This LEO's post that I quoted is about half way down page one of the thread.

    http://www.uscca.us/forum/showthread.php?t=7678

    Edited to add: His screen name there is jchbroker
    Thanks, Thunder... mmm...it seems you have to register to see the board, and registration is disabled. Bummer. Oh well, I think the part you quoted pretty much gives us the gist of what he was saying.

    --RedKnightt--

    Zombie Squad has it right: “We hold fast to the belief that if you are prepared for a scenario where the walking corpses of your family and neighbors are trying to eat you alive, you will be prepared for almost anything.”

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    DKSuddeth wrote:
    One of the main reasons I'm so glad I moved out of Illinois. I remember when there were major stories reporting the Shaun Kranish issue, they had one blurb in there from an Illinois State Patrolmen who stated that they (LEOs) like it knowing that their residents aren't carrying guns, it makes it easier to know that those who are carrying are indeed criminals.
    "We must take the guns from the population so the streets will be safe for the SS."

    A. Hitler
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    RedKnightt wrote:
    Thanks, Thunder... mmm...it seems you have to register to see the board, and registration is disabled. Bummer. Oh well, I think the part you quoted pretty much gives us the gist of what he was saying.

    --RedKnightt--
    Registration isn't disabled...go to https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/public/1129.cfm , you can register there.... $47 for 1 year though.

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    Let that dork come out here to Colorado and try that. I wonder how he will like getting his hemroids done with a front sight

    Colorado

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    Statkowski wrote:
    As for conceal carry state, the same thing applies, but once I see you're a card carrying CCW person I will remove the handcuffs, give you your gun back and tell you to be more careful.
    Too late, nimrod, if you're in another state you've already committed assault, battery, false arrest under color of law, impersonating an officer, civil rights violations, and probably a few other laws, too.

    Just imagine if this idiot saw someone open carrying.
    He'd have an apoplectic fit in Arizona. This guy is paranoid.Definately an 'us vs them' mentality. 'Tell you to be more careful?" WHAT!? Do that in any state but Illinois pard 'n you'll be arrested by local popopo's as Statkowski sez. I OC everywhere... daily. 'Reason I 'stopped by' the Illinois site is'cause my wife 'n some in-laws are from the Chicago area. Police State mentality is an understatement.

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