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Thread: Montana ID Laws

  1. #1
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    I cannot seem to find this anywhere so if this is a repost I apologize.

    What are the laws in MT concerning law enforcement stopping you if you are open carrying, or anything else for that matter?

    In other words, if I'm stopped while OCing, do I have to provide identification? Must I answer the officer if he has no reason for stopping me otehr than to ask who, what, why
    because I have a sidearm?

    Any answers and citations if you have them would be greatly appreciated.



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    tarkio wrote:
    I cannot seem to find this anywhere so if this is a repost I apologize.

    What are the laws in MT concerning law enforcement stopping you if you are open carrying, or anything else for that matter?

    In other words, if I'm stopped while OCing, do I have to provide identification? Must I answer the officer if he has no reason for stopping me otehr than to ask who, what, why
    because I have a sidearm?

    Any answers and citations if you have them would be greatly appreciated.

    Have you searched your state's statutes for any requirement to identify your self to police generally? Most states have no such statutes and the inquiry essenitally ends there.

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    http://data.opi.state.mt.us/bills/mca/46/5/46-5-401.htm

    Looks like they can demand name, present address and explanation of
    actions. If you're driving, they can demand license, registration and
    insurance.

    A bunch of states have stop-and-identify statutes:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify

    gridboy

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    Thanks for the info.

    However, the MCA section states that it must be a lawful stop so I guess that means that a person does not have to provide anything if the stop is a fishing expedition or the police doesn't have PC.

    Thanks again.

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    gridboy wrote:
    http://data.opi.state.mt.us/bills/mca/46/5/46-5-401.htm

    Looks like they can demand name, present address and explanation of
    actions. If you're driving, they can demand license, registration and
    insurance.

    A bunch of states have stop-and-identify statutes:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify

    gridboy
    wow - 24 states have some kind of stop & ID law.

    Under Hiibel and the Fifth Amendment the giving of your address and explaning your actions is probably unconstitutional.

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    tarkio wrote:
    Thanks for the info.

    However, the MCA section states that it must be a lawful stop so I guess that means that a person does not have to provide anything if the stop is a fishing expedition or the police doesn't have PC.

    Thanks again.
    Yeah - regardless of statute, Fourth Amendment requires any stop be lawful, i.e., Terry compliant.

  7. #7
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    Yes but police will sometime try to converse with you and make you feel that you are required to reply even when it isn't Terry compliant. That was my question.

    From the MCA it is obvious that police here must inform you asap if it is a detention or arrest and what the stop is for.

    Thanks.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Mike wrote:
    gridboy wrote:
    http://data.opi.state.mt.us/bills/mca/46/5/46-5-401.htm

    Looks like they can demand name, present address and explanation of
    actions. If you're driving, they can demand license, registration and
    insurance.

    A bunch of states have stop-and-identify statutes:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify

    gridboy
    wow - 24 states have some kind of stop & ID law.

    Under Hiibel and the Fifth Amendment the giving of your address and explaning your actions is probably unconstitutional.
    Hiibbel v NV

    Supreme Court Upholds Constitutionality of Arrest for Refusal to Identify. In a 5-4 vote, the Supreme Court has narrowly upheld a Nevada law allowing law enforcement to arrest an individual when he refuses to identify himself, and reasonable suspicion--though not probable cause--exists that he has committed a crime. (June 21, 2004)

    Let's be clear, as this is important. Reasonable articulable suspicion must exist that he has, or is about to commit a crime. The criteria are exactly the same as a Terry stop and frisk. And again, let's be clear, this is Federal Law. The SC has left it up to the states to define their own laws with respect to providing ID. Ask, why do you want to know? Are you detaining me? If so, under what reasonable suspicion? If not, adios MF. If so, tell him your name and you want to speak with your lawyer and will answer no more questions without him being present.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    The best place for MT gun laws, I think is at, http://www.mtssa.org

    Go to ACLU web site to find info on being stoped as a pedestrian.

    Or http://data.opi.state.mt.us/bills/mca/46/5/46-5-401.htm




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    Didn't some of these 'laws' change with the Patriot Act which is NOT 'patriotic'?

    I thought that a person who was not even 'open carrying' and walking on the sidewalks in an 'ordinary manner' could be stopped and asked to produce identification. Maybe that will keep people from carrying ID which I read on some big L not small l Libertarian boards! Ha!

    I remember reading about this on various forums where they cited NEW laws especially since the Pat Acts and other 'things' () were shoved through Congress and the White House.

    There was something that MSSA and the ACLU agreed on, worked together on when it came to many of these NEW laws and acts. I don't think it was the one about the Montana Driver's License (Federal ID Compliance.) where the state of Montana told them to shove it! ; . )

    Catherine


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    tarkio wrote:
    I cannot seem to find this anywhere so if this is a repost I apologize.

    What are the laws in MT concerning law enforcement stopping you if you are open carrying, or anything else for that matter?

    In other words, if I'm stopped while OCing, do I have to provide identification? Must I answer the officer if he has no reason for stopping me otehr than to ask who, what, why
    because I have a sidearm?

    Any answers and citations if you have them would be greatly appreciated.

    Check out MCA 46-5-401. That may answer some questions for you!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

    Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
    -John W. Creasy (Man on Fire)

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