Pepper Spray, Tasers, and Bears

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Pointman wrote:

imperialism2024 wrote:

:shock:

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Definitely in need of heavy seasoning.....

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Here's what I didn't know:

- Bear spray emits flavor fog instead of a scream stream. Having spent time in the woods, I realize that wind tends to circle around in many areas instead of coming from one direction. Bears will generally approach from down-wind, meaning the fog, in theory, will be carried toward them. In practice: "I think I just seasoned myself."

- Bears actually like the seasoning, to the point of eating seasoned dirt. If I escaped one attack I'm setting myself up for another, especially when in the mountains on a 3-day pack-in.

- If bear spray creates a fog so you can hit a fast-moving bear, a bad-guy will probably avoid the scream stream and TKO yo azz.

- Hissing like a snake might work, dropping a rank-bomb might work, and using a .44 magnum to fire an ear-shattering warning shot might work. If those don't work, use the .44 to blow out one shoulder, then the other.

- From the video, a high-powered stun gun for non-human use will stun a bull, a Taser mightstun a bull, but as soon as the 30-second timeout hits, you're ground Chuck. A bear will probably do the same to you, just faster, given bears are hunters. So the answer is that a Taser is not a good means of self-defense against a bear.

- Bear "experts" aren't experts, aren't overly smart, and apparently love to waste money (at least as far as I've seen and in relation to those commenting on the effectiveness of pepper spray).
--- Almost all predators instincts are triggered by the predator-prey relationship, and bears are not one of the exceptions--that's been known for years, and simply discounting "running" as something related to dogs is complete idiocy.
--- 42 bear attacks isn't even a year's worth of data, much less enough information for any sort of reasonable statistical basis. No real conclusions can be drawn from 42 discreet events, given the area the events occur over, the number of bear-human interactions, changes in environment over time, other mitigating factors, etc. In other words, the "expert study" is fairly useless.
--- A database is extremely expensive to set up, given everything is custom for government work, as it usually deals with "the mainframe." I can track 42 bears on two legal-sized pieces of paper, and I'm a software engineer! If I say a sheet of paper is the best tool for the job, it probably is!

One thing thorvaldr's post reminded me of is that Alaskan natives carry big rifles, not pepper spray. I'm also betting they know something about bears.

Since an enraged human is like a non-enraged bear, mostly, pepper spray and Tasers aren't great defensive weapons in some cases. I'm still thinking of carrying pepper spray, although I'm not sure where I'd put it. (Yeah, I know what you're thinking.) I'm out of room on my belt, and ain't stickin' it there...

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Thanks Tarzan for the hilariously accurate translation.

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Think you for the very logical and intuitive observations.

I just got back from a long weekend where I took the Scouts out looking at some Indian sites. this is my first time back at the computer since last Wednesday.



Tarzan

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Orygunner wrote:

mobeewan wrote:

I saw a program either on Discovery Channel of National Geographics Channel that was about bears and attacks. They sprayed bear repellant on the ground and set up a camera. A little while later a bear showed updid exactly as stated above. It sat in the spot that was sprayed and then rolled over and rolled in it like a dog that found something stinky to roll in.

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Well, Firearms aren't much better! I saw a thing on tv once where they shot a bunch into the ground, then set up a camera.A little while later a bear showed up, picked up the empty casings, dug the bullets out of the dirt, then went back to his cave and reloaded them...

...I just don't know if I'd trust those reloads...
...Orygunner...

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:lol::lol:



Tarzan

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Here is a story, just to get you thinking;

http://www.stocksandnews.com/searchresults.asp?Id=2454&adate=2/12/2007

"Craig Medred, Anchorage Daily News:

“The grizzly bear that fell dead, almost miraculously, inches
from the feet of Doug White last fall changed his life, possibly
forever. Near-death experiences have a way of doing that.

“When the bear came seemingly out of nowhere near Dillingham
and the shooting started, White thought he and moose-hunting
partner Reed Thompson were dead.

“In the blink of an eye, they found themselves in the center of a
chaotic reality that seemed more like some crazy dream. There
was the dead moose they had shot on the ground, a grizzly bear
that wanted the moose almost on top of them, and only a .44-
caliber Magnum handgun with which to defend themselves.”

It seems the two had already killed the moose, returned to their
riverboat to retrieve their backpacks and mentally shifted from
being hunters to packers.

“As they headed back to their moose kill, it was mainly out of
habit that the two Dillingham men grabbed Thompson’s pistol
along with the knives they would need for butchering, game bags
and backpacks for hauling 600 or 700 pounds of food. Adding
heavy rifles to the burden seemed like a lot of unnecessary effort.
But the .44-Mag was light enough and compact enough they
grabbed it as a precaution: Better to be safe than sorry.”

But for all the animals Alaska’s hunters kill over the course of a
year, rarely does a grizzly try and take it from them. It’s only
now, though, that Doug White has decided to write about his
incident from last September.

“With darkness approaching, we decided to remove the top front
and rear quarters of the moose, tie them to our pack frames, gut
the moose out, and then roll the behemoth over to cool through
the night. We would return in the morning to finish up.”

But as they were taking out the internal organs, and “As Reed
pulled the heart out [oops…sorry…I didn’t warn you
beforehand] and tossed it behind us, a loud ‘HUFF’ snapped us
to our feet.”

“Turning around, we saw standing before us, on hind legs, a
large, chocolate-brown grizzly bear. The next minute seemed to
last an eternity. The term surreal is so overused, but it was
dreamlike, bizarre, fantastic and unreal.

“The bear was standing next to the tree where the pistol was
hanging. We both started shouting and waving our arms back
and forth as we moved somewhat to our right toward the tail end
of the moose. The bear came down off his back legs, onto all
fours and started circling to his right – toward the head of the
bull. My only thought was to get to the gun so that we could
scare him off.

“I sensed that he charged from the head of the moose as I broke
for the gun. Reed commented later that the bear vaulted over the
moose and went straight for him. Halfway to the tree, I tripped
on a fallen log and went down on all fours.

“From my peripheral, I saw the bear going after Reed, who had
moved into the tall grass. It appeared that the bear had knocked
Reed down and was standing over him. My worst fear was that
my friend was being mauled.

“I grabbed the holster but was unable to remove the revolver
regardless of how hard I tugged. As I looked up, I saw the bear
charging toward me.

“I started backing up as I continued screaming and hollering at
the bear….With the bear almost on top of me, I fell over another
log. I did a back drop and felt him grab my left leg. His huge
head was above my lap, just out of reach of my holstered club.”

White tried to shoot through the holster but that failed.

“Just when I thought all was lost, the bear rose up, pivoted 90
degrees to his left and was gone. The grizzly had charged back
in the direction of Reed as he had jumped up and yelled once
again.”

Reed dropped back down into the tall grass and he could hear the
bear sniffing for him, as Doug White was finally able to get the
gun out of the holster. But now the bear was charging back at
him again.

“I pointed the revolver and fired at center mass. The .44
magnum boomed in the night and the bear fell straight down, his
head three feet away from I stood.”

But if you thought the two’s troubles were over, that night a
wicked storm hit the area, with winds of 60-70 mph. Cold and
wet, they rigged up a tent and weathered it. Two days later they
made it back to Dillingham. And the biggest mystery remains
how it was that the bear was felled with just one shot from a .44. "



Tarzan

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Wow, exciting story.

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tarzan1888 wrote:

Here is a story, just to get you thinking;...

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Wow - not recommended for home trial!

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Here is the story and pics of the bear and moose encounter. Good reason to have a double action revolver.

http://chiphunnicutt.com/the-longest-minute/

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Bflamante wrote:

Here is the story and pics of the bear and moose encounter. Good reason to have a double action revolver.

http://chiphunnicutt.com/the-longest-minute/

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Thank you. I received it in an e-mail a couple of years ago, but my company recently changed over from groupwise to outlook and I lost my old e-mails.

I searched for it on the net, but only found the one I posted, and not the one with pictures.

My whole point in posting it in the first place was that if an experienced hunter had trouble getting a gun out of a holster, how much worse of a time would he have trying to get bear spray out of a holster and aiming it in the right direction and spraying the bear.

I am not stupid, and I have used a lot of different types of spray containers, BUT on more than one occasion I have sprayed in the wrong direction, when I have attempted to spray from a container, that I was not as familiar with as I should be. I wasn't under extreme stress at the time either. :what:

I see it as one more reason NOT to depend on bear spray.

Tarzan

I apologize, guys, I know that this topic is very old, but maybe my answer will help someone in the future. They have slightly different behaviors. A grizzly will often attack but break it off and stop and not kill if a victim covers up and plays dead. If a black bear attacks you it is generally going to kill you and eat you, so you better damn well fight for your life. Yeah, most of the time black bears run off, but that doesn't mean you should lose respect for what they can do.Bears have a 20X better sense of smell than dogs, so bear spray https://bestoutdooritems.com/best-bear-spray/ very effective on them. Personally, I prefer the option of defending myself to plan B -- roll into a fetal ball, and hope the bear doesn't rip open a major artery while he's mauling you. Check out this video about When black bears attack!On YouTube there are a lot of interesting videos on this subject, yesterday I watched one of them, because my friend also asked for advice in choosing. Look, I hope that helps. Good luck
[video=youtube;xh9F-wk8KIQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh9F-wk8KIQ[/video]

Here's and article you well find interesting on the effectiveness of handguns on bears.

The author has written extensively on the subject go to his blog and search for bears and you well find a lot of interesting reading.


http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97_25.html

Firearms Iinstuctor said:

Here's and article you well find interesting on the effectiveness of handguns on bears.

The author has written extensively on the subject go to his blog and search for bears and you well find a lot of interesting reading.


http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97_25.html

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Good report on the effectiveness of a 9mm.

No gun? Might have to resort to using the Davey Crockett method. Would not be my first choice - might be my last.

Excellent report, useful info. Probably pepper spray is recommended by departments and orgs because their top concern is for the animals.

Bear spray manufactures and bear first types.