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Thread: Informing of CHP during traffic stop

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Is there state code addressing informing an officer of your CHP during a traffic stop, and if so, what is it?

    I repeatedly hear that there's no requirement to inform, but is that because a requirement to inform is not in the code, or because the code specifically mentions that informing is not required?

    Thanks.



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    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USOffLimitsN-W.pdf

    Unless the law states you have to notify, you do not have to notify. I hope that helps.

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    You are not required to volunteer the info that you have a gun and/or permit BUT if they find out (i.e. from you vehicle reg during a traffic stop) and he asks for your CHP permit and id, you are required to provide that.

    From the SP website -

    The person issued a permit or in possession of a de facto permit must have the permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and must display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department upon demand by a law enforcement officer.

    As an aside, giving the officer the courtesy of knowing that you have a firearm goes a long way in his mind of returning that courtesy to you....
    James Reynolds

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    Does anybody know how the police registration system works? Can an officer in another state you're traveling through run your plates and see that you have a CHP from VA? Just curious.

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    ProShooter wrote:
    You are not required to volunteer the info that you have a gun and/or permit BUT if they find out (i.e. from you vehicle reg during a traffic stop) and he asks for your CHP permit and id, you are required to provide that.

    From the SP website -

    The person issued a permit or in possession of a de facto permit must have the permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and must display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department upon demand by a law enforcement officer.

    As an aside, giving the officer the courtesy of knowing that you have a firearm goes a long way in his mind of returning that courtesy to you....
    This may be kind of a dumb question but....

    Would it be safe to assume that if the officer finds out you have a CHP during a traffic stop and asks for it, you do not have to provide it unless you're actually carrying concealed at the time? I guess the officer has no choice really but to take you at your word when you tell him you're not actually carrying/concealing.


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    Bandit wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    You are not required to volunteer the info that you have a gun and/or permit BUT if they find out (i.e. from you vehicle reg during a traffic stop) and he asks for your CHP permit and id, you are required to provide that.

    From the SP website -

    The person issued a permit or in possession of a de facto permit must have the permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and must display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department upon demand by a law enforcement officer.

    As an aside, giving the officer the courtesy of knowing that you have a firearm goes a long way in his mind of returning that courtesy to you....
    This may be kind of a dumb question but....

    Would it be safe to assume that if the officer finds out you have a CHP during a traffic stop and asks for it, you do not have to provide it unless you're actually carrying concealed at the time? I guess the officer has no choice really but to take you at your word when you tell him you're not actually carrying/concealing.
    Someone tried to tell me once that if you're not carrying you still have to tell them you're a CHP holder and provide a permit. I called BS because you're not required to even carry your permit if you're not carrying. Then I got a brilliant idea that when I get my CHP I'll put a pocket for it on my CCW holster so I only carry it when I'm concealing.

    Then I though about trying to retrieve said permit for an officer.:shock: Houston, we have a problem.

    Nevertheless, there is nothing that says you even have to have your permit with you if you're not CCing.

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    That's pretty much what I thought. Thank you for clarifying. I'm on day 30 of 45...so my CHP should be here any day now....

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    Bandit wrote:
    This may be kind of a dumb question but....

    Would it be safe to assume that if the officer finds out you have a CHP during a traffic stop and asks for it, you do not have to provide it unless you're actually carrying concealed at the time? I guess the officer has no choice really but to take you at your word when you tell him you're not actually carrying/concealing.
    As with just about any question, you do not even have to answer the question if you are carrying or not in VA.

    If the officer directly asks you if you have a weapon, do not answer. Your refusal to answer does not give them RAS to search for it.

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    possumboy wrote:
    Bandit wrote:
    This may be kind of a dumb question but....

    Would it be safe to assume that if the officer finds out you have a CHP during a traffic stop and asks for it, you do not have to provide it unless you're actually carrying concealed at the time? I guess the officer has no choice really but to take you at your word when you tell him you're not actually carrying/concealing.
    As with just about any question, you do not even have to answer the question if you are carrying or not in VA.

    If the officer directly asks you if you have a weapon, do not answer. Your refusal to answer does not give them RAS to search for it.
    You don't have to speak to them, but you do have to show a permit if you are CCing!

    § 18.2-308
    H. The permit to carry a concealed handgun shall specify only the following information: name, address, date of birth, gender, height, weight, color of hair, color of eyes, and signature of the permittee; the signature of the judge issuing the permit, or of the clerk of court who has been authorized to sign such permits by the issuing judge; and the date of issuance. The permit to carry a concealed handgun shall be no larger than two inches wide by three and one-fourth inches long and shall be of a uniform style prescribed by the Department of State Police. The person issued the permit shall have such permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and shall display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department (passport) upon demand by a law-enforcement officer.

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    ProShooter wrote:
    SNIP As an aside, giving the officer the courtesy of knowing that you have a firearm goes a long way in his mind of returning that courtesy to you....
    This is a good point. A number of posters have reported receiving only traffic warnings after informing the officer that they are carrying.

    There is another side to the coin.

    Revealing you are armed may invite violations of your 4th Amendment rights. We have reports of people being disarmed and their serial number being run. I think many, perhaps all,of these were OC (dashboard, etc) notifications.

    I do know one fella who didn't inform. He received a short lecture, part of which included the information that the police have procedures they are supposed to follow if the person is armed. I can only take that to mean the officer intended/s to disarm occupants without regard to whether they are giving indications of being presently dangerous (see Terry vs Ohio).
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Yes it does go a long way. Being courteous helps out. Although I think they had some false PC to pull me over in the first place, I handed over my permit on top of my DL, registration and insurance and let them know I was carrying. They said thanks and ignored it (as much as I could tell). Ran my info then let me go.

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    xd.40 wrote:
    Yes it does go a long way. Being courteous helps out. Although I think they had some false PC to pull me over in the first place, I handed over my permit on top of my DL, registration and insurance and let them know I was carrying. They said thanks and ignored it (as much as I could tell). Ran my info then let me go.
    what reason did they give you for the stop?
    James Reynolds

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    While I understand a certain amount of caution on the part of the driver of the car, I would certainly believe that being courteous and offering to the officer a simple statement while keeping both hands on the wheel in plain view like "Hello officer, I am legally carrying a weapon, how do you wish to proceed?" would go a long way. I will give the benefit of the doubt to the LEO's on this one and figure that 99.9% of them will treat you with more respect if you are up front about it. They may ask where it is. Some might even ask the follow on question "Is it loaded?" (I think that one is pretty funny!!) It also causes less tension than if they find that you have a concealed permit when they run your info and they feel a need to ask about it.

    Of course, since I'm a good law abiding citizen, I don't get involved in traffic stops, so I don't have any real experience here!!!!!

    Are there LEO's that will try to make something out of nothing? I imagine so, but I'd rather take the high road and let them be the one's to make the mistakes. (I did learn from Professor Danbus (aka BMWAG) about the absolute necessity of having a good digital voice recorder with me at all times so it will never be a question who was on the high road and who wasn't!!)
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist in 1764.

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    "You were swerving like you have been drinking". (This was winter 2006 going down a large hill on Rt. 1 in Woodbridge right after the first ice storm of the season - I wasn't swerving, I was sliding on the ice! And around 11PM)

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    ProShooter wrote:
    You are not required to volunteer the info that you have a gun and/or permit BUT if they find out (i.e. from you vehicle reg during a traffic stop) and he asks for your CHP permit and id, you are required to provide that.

    From the SP website -

    The person issued a permit or in possession of a de facto permit must have the permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and must display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department upon demand by a law enforcement officer.

    As an aside, giving the officer the courtesy of knowing that you have a firearm goes a long way in his mind of returning that courtesy to you....
    not quite: from member muzz3625 a dispatcher in cville:

    muzz3256 wrote:
    I just wanted to bring up one thing I saw here.

    Coming from a dispatcher (me), who runs dozens of vehicles and drivers licenses's a shift through DMV/VCIN/NCIC, your CHP is in no way attached to your vehicle at all.

    The only way an officer could assiocate a CHP to a person through a vehicle, is to run the registered owner(s) that are assoicated with the vehicle, and that is against the law for me as a dispatcher to do without an officer asking me to do it, and it's against the law for an officer to do it (or ask us to do it) unless he has reasonable cause AND its part of a criminal investigation (at least this is what they just taught me in my VCIN recertification class).

    The only thing that your CHP is attched to is your SSN, DL number, and your name/DOB, and then it only comes up as a VCIN hit. If I were to go to NC, and an officer ran me, he would get that I am licensed through Virginia DMV, and that I have no NCIC hits (I would hope), and nothing outstanding through the system that the state of North Carolina uses to track wants/warrants. There is nothing that is distributed through NCIC or NLETS that notifies about CHP's.

    Just wanted to through in my 2 cents.

    -muzz
    When an officer stops a vehicle, they do give us the plate number, which is logged into CAD, the plate of the vehicle is then automatically run through DMV, VCIN, and NCIC by CAD. We do not give the officers a read back on the plates at all, unless there is a problem, for instance, the officer said he pulled over a red Dodge Ram, and the plates come back to a blue Ford Taurus. Then the officer is supposed to go and get the DL of the driver of the vehicle, and run their DL number to get their status, and that’s where the CHP hit comes in. I as a dispatcher am not allowed to just run the status of the registered owners when the officer pulls the vehicle over because the status of the owners is protected information, which can get me in trouble, plus it's a misdemeanor to run someone that is not part of a criminal investigation.

    Now in this area, because it's a pretty small location, some of the officers know certain, how shall I put this, less law abiding citizens who drive on suspended licenses or on expired plates, and will have us run a plate and ask us to run the status of the registered owner, I would hope because they know that the person who is driving is the person who owns the vehicle. In that case we would give them both the information of the vehicle and the information of the registered owner, including a CHP hit if it came up.

    Now here comes the new part, Mobile Data Terminals:

    Pretty much all of the county cars and a handful of the city cars have MDT's installed in them now, and this give the officer the ability to run anyone, registered owner and all, BUT they are just as accountable to the State Police (they are the ones who regulate the access) as to having to justify why they ran someone, and if it was not part of a criminal investigation, then they can get into legal trouble.
    Now I know that there used to be some dispatchers that wanted to be pretty proactive and do things like this, but it is now generally discouraged, as we do not want to be disemminating protected information if it's not part of a criminal investigation.

    *PLEASE NOTE THE THE VIEWS THAT I EXPRESS HERE ARE NOT THE VIEWS OF MY EMPLOYER, NOR IS ANYTHING I SAY THE POLICY OF MY EMPLOYER, THEY ARE JUST OBSERVATIONS AND MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION.*


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    67GT390FB wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    You are not required to volunteer the info that you have a gun and/or permit BUT if they find out (i.e. from you vehicle reg during a traffic stop) and he asks for your CHP permit and id, you are required to provide that.

    From the SP website -

    The person issued a permit or in possession of a de facto permit must have the permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and must display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department upon demand by a law enforcement officer.

    As an aside, giving the officer the courtesy of knowing that you have a firearm goes a long way in his mind of returning that courtesy to you....
    not quite: from member muzz3625 a dispatcher in cville:

    muzz3256 wrote:
    I just wanted to bring up one thing I saw here.

    Coming from a dispatcher (me), who runs dozens of vehicles and drivers licenses's a shift through DMV/VCIN/NCIC, your CHP is in no way attached to your vehicle at all.

    The only way an officer could assiocate a CHP to a person through a vehicle, is to run the registered owner(s) that are assoicated with the vehicle, and that is against the law for me as a dispatcher to do without an officer asking me to do it, and it's against the law for an officer to do it (or ask us to do it) unless he has reasonable cause AND its part of a criminal investigation (at least this is what they just taught me in my VCIN recertification class).

    The only thing that your CHP is attched to is your SSN, DL number, and your name/DOB, and then it only comes up as a VCIN hit. If I were to go to NC, and an officer ran me, he would get that I am licensed through Virginia DMV, and that I have no NCIC hits (I would hope), and nothing outstanding through the system that the state of North Carolina uses to track wants/warrants. There is nothing that is distributed through NCIC or NLETS that notifies about CHP's.

    Just wanted to through in my 2 cents.

    -muzz
    When an officer stops a vehicle, they do give us the plate number, which is logged into CAD, the plate of the vehicle is then automatically run through DMV, VCIN, and NCIC by CAD. We do not give the officers a read back on the plates at all, unless there is a problem, for instance, the officer said he pulled over a red Dodge Ram, and the plates come back to a blue Ford Taurus. Then the officer is supposed to go and get the DL of the driver of the vehicle, and run their DL number to get their status, and that’s where the CHP hit comes in. I as a dispatcher am not allowed to just run the status of the registered owners when the officer pulls the vehicle over because the status of the owners is protected information, which can get me in trouble, plus it's a misdemeanor to run someone that is not part of a criminal investigation.

    Now in this area, because it's a pretty small location, some of the officers know certain, how shall I put this, less law abiding citizens who drive on suspended licenses or on expired plates, and will have us run a plate and ask us to run the status of the registered owner, I would hope because they know that the person who is driving is the person who owns the vehicle. In that case we would give them both the information of the vehicle and the information of the registered owner, including a CHP hit if it came up.

    Now here comes the new part, Mobile Data Terminals:

    Pretty much all of the county cars and a handful of the city cars have MDT's installed in them now, and this give the officer the ability to run anyone, registered owner and all, BUT they are just as accountable to the State Police (they are the ones who regulate the access) as to having to justify why they ran someone, and if it was not part of a criminal investigation, then they can get into legal trouble.
    Now I know that there used to be some dispatchers that wanted to be pretty proactive and do things like this, but it is now generally discouraged, as we do not want to be disemminating protected information if it's not part of a criminal investigation.

    *PLEASE NOTE THE THE VIEWS THAT I EXPRESS HERE ARE NOT THE VIEWS OF MY EMPLOYER, NOR IS ANYTHING I SAY THE POLICY OF MY EMPLOYER, THEY ARE JUST OBSERVATIONS AND MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION.*
    Perhaps a clarification is in order, but I disagree with part of that as well..

    In addition to 12 years of being a LEO myself, I also spent some years "behind the microphone". What I should have spelled out, was that when an officer runs a plate, they find out if you have a CHP because it is anormal and standard practice for a dispatcher to first run the tag, then run the registered owner's DL info for validity, then to run the registered owner for local wants and warrants as well as through NCIC (and VCIN in Virginia - other states call it something different).

    I have never heard of a law barring a dispatcher from doing this. Its all part of officer safety. If someone comes up clean, there is usually a response that the person is "clear all the way around". As a dispatch supervisor, if I saw a dispatcher not run someone all the way, I'd get on their butt. The officers expect it, and its a standard practice for any department that I ever worked for, whether as a civilian dispatcher or a sworn LEO.


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    I have driven into Canada a number of times, both before and after obtaining my Virginia CHP. Before I had my CHP, I may have been asked if I had a gun, but I am not sure whether or not I was asked. If I was asked, it was probably a perfunctory question that I don’t recall. However, after I had my CHP, the three times I have driven into Canada I was asked repeatedly if I had a gun. In one case (prior to 9/11/01) I was asked five times if I had a gun. The first question would be general, as “Are you transporting any guns?” followed by generic questions like “Where are you traveling to?”, then suddenly, “Are you sure you aren’t carrying any guns?” more generic questions, and then “There are severe penalties for transporting weapons illegally in Canada; are you positive you’re not carrying any guns?”

    On one of these occasions, I was not carrying my passport, just driver license and registration.

    I don’t recall this type of questioning regarding carrying a gun until after I had my Virginia CHP. I can’t help but think that there is something on the passport and/or drivers license that alerts the Border/Customs agent when they input data into their terminal. Does anyone know? Frankly, I didn’t object to the questions, I am just curious to know if there is something regarding individuals with a CHP that would cause them to be scrutinized more thoroughly than a non-CHP holder.

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    ProShooter wrote:

    Perhaps a clarification is in order, but I disagree with part of that as well..

    In addition to 12 years of being a LEO myself, I also spent some years "behind the microphone". What I should have spelled out, was that when an officer runs a plate, they find out if you have a CHP because it is anormal and standard practice for a dispatcher to first run the tag, then run the registered owner's DL info for validity, then to run the registered owner for local wants and warrants as well as through NCIC (and VCIN in Virginia - other states call it something different).

    I have never heard of a law barring a dispatcher from doing this. Its all part of officer safety. If someone comes up clean, there is usually a response that the person is "clear all the way around". As a dispatch supervisor, if I saw a dispatcher not run someone all the way, I'd get on their butt. The officers expect it, and its a standard practice for any department that I ever worked for, whether as a civilian dispatcher or a sworn LEO.

    Well, I am going to disagree with you. I have almost 20 years as a communications officer. I am also a NCIC/VCIN Instructor and a General Instructor through CJIS. Running the registered owner when we run a tag IS NOT part of our policy. Unless you know who is driving that car, you don't have the right to summarily run that persons OL. Doing so may subject you to civil and criminal liability under 18.2-152.3 and 18.2-152.7.

    As the night shift supervisor, if I see one of my people doing it, I will be on their butt for doing it. I don't know what agency you were with, but unless there was a written policy then someones butt could be in a sling.

    Officers cannot legally just run your your plate on a fishing expedition without a reason either. For those who are interested, you can go to DMV and they will give you a printout of when and by which agency your plate was run.



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    Goliath wrote:
    For those who are interested, you can go to DMV and they will give you a printout of when and by which agency your plate was run.

    Please tell us how to do this. What is the specific request we make to the person at the DMV ?

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    doug23838 wrote:
    Goliath wrote:
    For those who are interested, you can go to DMV and they will give you a printout of when and by which agency your plate was run.

    Please tell us how to do this. What is the specific request we make to the person at the DMV ?
    Take your registration and drivers license to the DMV, and ask tell them you want a printout of who has run your plate.

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    Goliath wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:

    Perhaps a clarification is in order, but I disagree with part of that as well..

    In addition to 12 years of being a LEO myself, I also spent some years "behind the microphone". What I should have spelled out, was that when an officer runs a plate, they find out if you have a CHP because it is anormal and standard practice for a dispatcher to first run the tag, then run the registered owner's DL info for validity, then to run the registered owner for local wants and warrants as well as through NCIC (and VCIN in Virginia - other states call it something different).

    I have never heard of a law barring a dispatcher from doing this. Its all part of officer safety. If someone comes up clean, there is usually a response that the person is "clear all the way around". As a dispatch supervisor, if I saw a dispatcher not run someone all the way, I'd get on their butt. The officers expect it, and its a standard practice for any department that I ever worked for, whether as a civilian dispatcher or a sworn LEO.

    Well, I am going to disagree with you. I have almost 20 years as a communications officer. I am also a NCIC/VCIN Instructor and a General Instructor through CJIS. Running the registered owner when we run a tag IS NOT part of our policy. Unless you know who is driving that car, you don't have the right to summarily run that persons OL. Doing so may subject you to civil and criminal liability under 18.2-152.3 and 18.2-152.7.

    As the night shift supervisor, if I see one of my people doing it, I will be on their butt for doing it. I don't know what agency you were with, but unless there was a written policy then someones butt could be in a sling.

    Officers cannot legally just run your your plate on a fishing expedition without a reason either. For those who are interested, you can go to DMV and they will give you a printout of when and by which agency your plate was run.

    Well, while I didnt spend as much time as you behind the microphone, I did do 2 and a half years part time for one police department, 2 years full time as a Lead Police Dispatcher in charge of my shift, and then served as a EMD/911 Tele-communicator for a regional PSAP that dispatched 6 different police departments. Add to that 12 years on the other side of the mic as sworn law enforcement.

    We would routinely run a plate through DMV, switch to the registered owner and run his DL, check the plate through NCIC for wants/warrants, and check the registered owner for warrants. All of this needed to be done within a minute so that you could return the info back to the officer.

    I fail to see how the statutes that you offered could be construed to find fault with a dispatcher running info on traffic stops. Its a matter of officer safety. The 2 most dangerous things that LEO's deal with daily are traffic stops and domestic disputes. It has absolutely nothing to do with invading anyone's privacy, nor is it a fishing expedition. Its called being thorough and looking out for your guys on the road. A traffic stop is based on probable cause that a violation has been commited. The information you provide helps an officer in the field with critical info that he needs. We had no policies in place authorizing it, because quite frankly it should be a matterof common sense.
    James Reynolds

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  22. #22
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    What do we tell them when they laugh at us and tell us to stop wasting their time? Is there some code that we can cite to make them give it to us? Just wondering... Is this information that is on a normal driving record printout (I know you can get one of those...)

  23. #23
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    I do know that in California that the Registered Owner (RO) gets run as the officer calls in the plate when he initiates the stop. Usually the dispatcher waits until the officer identifies the driver to confirm that the driver is the RO. It saves time and if there is anything that sticks out, the dispatcher can notify the officer for his/her safety...

  24. #24
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    xd.40 wrote:
    What do we tell them when they laugh at us and tell us to stop wasting their time? Is there some code that we can cite to make them give it to us? Just wondering... Is this information that is on a normal driving record printout (I know you can get one of those...)
    I don't know about you, but I would be asking to speak to a supervisor.

  25. #25
    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Thank you to those that addressed my question.

    So it appears that we can choose not to disclose our CHP during a traffic stop for the same reason we can choose to OC: not because those choices are specifically allowed by code, but because there is no code forbidding those choices.

    Thanks.



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