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Thread: Gun Rights in Puerto Rico

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    Puerto Rico, although a US possesion, has limited *very* autonomy and has very tough gun laws, chasing NY at full speed as a gun lovers hating state. Again, the false premise of "more gun control = less violent crime" is the thing to do. Down here are three basic firearm permits:

    Ownership: you get your firearm in your house with a lonesome box of bullets. can't go to any range, can't do anything, just having it stored in your house............also you can only own one handgun and a box of bullets

    Shooting Range: this is actually an add on to the ownership. you can buy all the weapons you might want (that is in reasonable quantity), and all the ammunition you might need, BUT, you can only carry the weapons unloaded, the magazines empty from your house to the shooting range, viceversa, or from one house to another.

    Concealed Carry: that is the only carry permit available, you can have it loaded but cannot be visible; aside from the usual not to be carried on state or federal buildings, schools, ad nauseam, etc...Still not all carry permits are equal; when it is work related, such as certain security jobs, you have the permit for work hours and a maximum two hours after you finished your work day (night)

    Now comes the bummer..........Ownership is aproximately $400 (fees, lawyer, stamps)
    Shooting Range Permit add $50 more, and the concealed carry is $1000. These licenses have a duration of 5 years, after that time you have six months to renew the license or you get your guns confiscated, and after that point there is no guarantee you'll have them back....:X:X:X:X:X:X:X

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    Puerto Rico, Guam, the Virgin Islands, and smaller United States territories usually are not mentioned when it comes to matters of rights. Are these places subject to the Heller ruling?

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    Custodian wrote:
    Puerto Rico, Guam, the Virgin Islands, and smaller United States territories usually are not mentioned when it comes to matters of rights. Are these places subject to the Heller ruling?
    IIRC, they're not subject to the Constitution nor the BOR since they aren't States of the Union.

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    Comp-tech wrote:
    Custodian wrote:
    Puerto Rico, Guam, the Virgin Islands, and smaller United States territories usually are not mentioned when it comes to matters of rights. Are these places subject to the Heller ruling?
    IIRC, they're not subject to the Constitution nor the BOR since they aren't States of the Union.
    How can U.S. territrory not be subject to the U.S. constitution?

    Washington D.C. also isn't a state, so in that respect Puerto Rico is more like D.C. than it is a state.

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    Felid is right. Puerto Rico without political slang is just an American colony, just as Guam, Marianas Island and other "protectorates" in the Pacific. In 1952, the local governor Luis Munoz Marin made up the term Estado Libre Asociado which roughly translates into Commonwealth, but practically, we arent a commonwealth. We are subject to the US Congress whims, and our citizenship is law given, not birth right;
    translation, if the Congress decides to revoke the Jones Act of 1917, we lose our
    citizenship, more over, if the US Congress decides to sell the island (and the inhabitants) to any other country, it has the power and right to do so. Still, regarding to the post, the US Constitution is valid here, however as in many states, some state regulations override federal regulations.

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    Comp-tech wrote:
    Custodian wrote:
    Puerto Rico, Guam, the Virgin Islands, and smaller United States territories usually are not mentioned when it comes to matters of rights. Are these places subject to the Heller ruling?
    IIRC, they're not subject to the Constitution nor the BOR since they aren't States of the Union.
    What are you talking about????

    Territories and possessions are directly subject to the federal government, just like the District of Colombia. The BOR and Constitution does apply to territories and possessions.

    Please do not spread false information, this is a reliable website.

    Incorporation is not even an issue with territories, people in Puerto Rico and other places can immediately start suing to have these laws overturned.

    Puerto Rico is in the 1st circuit.

    U.S.V.I. is in the 3rd circuit.

    All others are in the 9th circuit.



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    This is quite an interesting discussion as I've wondered how those in U.S. territories are affected by the Heller decision. Perhaps we could get a new section hereincluded with the states (rather than with foreign countries) that provides a place for those from the territories to chat. Having perused some of the state sections, there couldn't be less discussion here than in some of the less "busy" state sections.

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    AkuZokuZan wrote:
    Puerto Rico, although a US possesion, has limited *very* autonomy and has very tough gun laws, chasing NY at full speed as a gun lovers hating state. Again, the false premise of "more gun control = less violent crime" is the thing to do. Down here are three basic firearm permits:

    Ownership: you get your firearm in your house with a lonesome box of bullets. can't go to any range, can't do anything, just having it stored in your house............also you can only own one handgun and a box of bullets

    Shooting Range: this is actually an add on to the ownership. you can buy all the weapons you might want (that is in reasonable quantity), and all the ammunition you might need, BUT, you can only carry the weapons unloaded, the magazines empty from your house to the shooting range, viceversa, or from one house to another.

    Concealed Carry: that is the only carry permit available, you can have it loaded but cannot be visible; aside from the usual not to be carried on state or federal buildings, schools, ad nauseam, etc...Still not all carry permits are equal; when it is work related, such as certain security jobs, you have the permit for work hours and a maximum two hours after you finished your work day (night)

    Now comes the bummer..........Ownership is aproximately $400 (fees, lawyer, stamps)
    Shooting Range Permit add $50 more, and the concealed carry is $1000. These licenses have a duration of 5 years, after that time you have six months to renew the license or you get your guns confiscated, and after that point there is no guarantee you'll have them back....:X:X:X:X:X:X:X

    Saludos,

    I'll commenton some of thestatements you made (bold is my emphasis).

    There is actually a "shall issue" firearms license that can be endorsed with thetwo permits you mentioned ("Shooting Range" [wich is actually a targetshooting permit][25 LPRA Sec 457c]and"Concealed Carry"[wich is only referred to by law as a carry permit {the law specifies that the hangun most not be visible to the public and yada, yada, yada or you'll receive, first a warning, then a fine, then a revocation of your carry permit; however, it is still a carry permit][25 LPRA Sec 456d]).There are also: a) a sports hunting license/permit[12 LPRA Sec 107k], b) a temporary sport hunting license/permit tonon-residents whoposses an equivalent from another jurisdiction[12 LPRA Sec 107n] and c) anon-residenttemporary target shootingpermit [25 LPRA Sec 457d]. All three permits/licenses can be aplied to separatedly from the firearms license.


    With regards to ownership, you are allowed to own two firearmsperlicensee (not withstanding thoseinherited), not two per household.[25 LPRA Sec 456a(d)] Also, you are allowed to have 50 rounds of the caliber utilized by the firearm owned per calendar year when you do not posses a target shooting permit. [25 LPRA Sec 459a] There are legal ways around expending that ammunition;however, it is kind ofsense less if you do not posses a target shooting permit (the permit is only $25for 5 years, then $10 every 5 thereafter [25 LPRA Sec 457c]. I will grant that you have to keepcurrent membership on a target shooting club ($50+ per year) and get a sports federation stamp ($25-50 every 5 years). It is still cheaper to get the permit than to do the firearms safety course every year at ~$90.

    I have never founda "reasonable quantity" restriction or an "unloaded magazine" requirement on any firearms statute. Let me know where you heard of that requirement - although I venture to say it was in a certain gun store in the Metro area (a lot of gun owners are not happy with them as they tend to stiff everyone and make up laws every day - hell they even tried to charge me $450+ for an FFL to FFL transfer fee [nuts]).

    As far as firearms in federal buildings, lands, etc, Puerto Rico has no jurisdiction over that whatsoever. There is a State law that was passed a few months ago [State Law # 46] - sorry is a slip law, and contrary to what is required, it has not been published in english as of yet] that makes it a crime to carry in certain State buildings; however,there are no prohibitions by the State (there is the Federal prohibition by18 USC Sec 922(q)(2)(a) et seq) as far as firearms carry in or around of schools.

    There is only one firearms carry permit that I know of [25 LPRA Sec 456d], other than the long barreled firearms permit issued to private security agencies persuant 25 LPRA Sec 457l & m. The one under Sec 456d is your personal permit, the one on Sec 457l & m is through a securtiy agency and conditional to your employment. Under neither are you allowed to carry a firearm openly after working hours.

    A firearms license (what you call "ownership") is a "shall issue" license in Puerto Rico [25 LPRA Sec 456a(a)]. You do not need an attorney to request a license or any permit, as long as you request them yourself. You need to pay a $100 fee and provide2 sworn statements (~$25 e/a). If you add gas, photos and the like, it doesn't go over $200 every 5 years (so like less than $40 per year if you amortize iton your finances - save up during the year so you don't end up shelling the $200 at one time). For carry permits your renewal is $100 every 5 years.

    I see where it could get expensive when getting your carry permit, as most people get scared of going to open court to request it. The permit will run you around $500 for the attorney + the $250 fee and whatever court costs run (usually $50). I wentto courtmyself (pro se) and got it approved after submitting an aditional sworn statement (the exact same one I submitted to the State Police) - no legal basis, but I figured it was cheaper to cave in to the statement than to appeal). Total out of pocket for the carry permit was ~$350.


    Edit on Jun 14, 2010 ---

    Links posted above may not work anymore. You can find the above mentioned laws here:

    http://www.gobierno.pr/Estado/inicio/Leyes.htm


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    jmelvin wrote:
    This is quite an interesting discussion as I've wondered how those in U.S. territories are affected by the Heller decision. Perhaps we could get a new section hereincluded with the states (rather than with foreign countries) that provides a place for those from the territories to chat. Having perused some of the state sections, there couldn't be less discussion here than in some of the less "busy" state sections.
    I second the motion. I know I'll be one of those filing suit in the next few years. With no finantial/legal back up (like Heller got), I'll have to wait at least until I get to law School (hopefully next year :celebrate). But I'm going all out, I'll file suit for public open/concealed carry, carry in non-secure areas ofgov buildings, and I'll even go beyond that,I'll sue another State and the Federal gov as well, so hopefullywe end up going to SCOTUS and we get some rights established (my 2A rights are infringed when I am prevented from traveling in between state A and B in lawful interstate commerce [vacations] while carrying firearmsthat are readilyavailable for the lawful purpose of self defense). I'll probably spend my Masters in between the 1st Circuit in Bostonand SCOTUS, but o'well. It will be a good practice run for when I do it all over again to request off duty carry in the military - in about 10 years from now when I settle in some JAG billet and my kid is out of the nest. If all fails I'll move back to VA and throw an open carry BBQ; actually, I think I'll do than anyways

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    Also, why is this thread under the Brits anyway? They never succeded in taking the Island :P

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    Hola cagueits......I post it because we had no active subforum for Puerto Rico; then I had to go to the International forum and oh well, put it under the Brits section.....I assume you are speaking of some armory & shooting club with De Leon surname....
    I got a WASR-10, a Remington 870 Express and a GLOCK 23; I got a M4 style collapsible stock for the Remington, bought a polymer Dragunov Stock plus replaced the forehand guard with some nice picatinny rail system for flashlight, scope and handgrip........however the dragunov stock is too long, and i'm contemplating buying
    an M4 style collapsible stock for it, and also one of those 75 rd Romanian drum mags,
    they are $129.99 over the net, can't imagine how will an armory down here will charge for it, easily over $200.............


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    Ok Im going for a security guard job and need a handgun permit, So I live in quebradillas,PR PLEASE could someone help me out and show me or tell me how to go about this and wha I need to do to get everythig in order, Plus I would love for someone that has permits to bring me to a range so we can go shotting for the day, thanks and hope to hear from you soohn

    thanks again
    Erik
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    :celebrate

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    roostergod wrote:
    Ok Im going for a security guard job and need a handgun permit, So I live in quebradillas,PR PLEASE could someone help me out and show me or tell me how to go about this and wha I need to do to get everythig in order, Plus I would love for someone that has permits to bring me to a range so we can go shotting for the day, thanks and hope to hear from you soohn

    thanks again
    Erik
    (787)291-7992
    :celebrate
    Come visit me in Washington we can shoot all day my several guns and open carry without permits, all over. Good luck with the job, if noone answers your post PM the other folks from Puerto Rico, they might not check the forum much.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    i have a question, relating to owning a firearm in PR. a relative of mine is currently in possession of a military issue M1911, which was my great uncle's; he served during WWII, and brought it back to PR. the laws then were different than they are now, and he knows he's not supposed to have it now. it's been sitting in a box in his attic, and he only takes it out once in awhile to make sure it's not rusting.

    he's unaware of any gunstores in PR, and is afraid that even if he does find an FFL, he might get in trouble for simply having it in his house. my father lives in PR, and he mentioned that i own and carry here in PA, so he wanted to know if there was any way to ship to an FFL here, to get it out of his house, without getting in trouble. he just wants it away from him. is there any way to do this legally? i don't want to see him get in any legal trouble, and i admit, the thought of getting an original Army isue 1911 excites me beyond words.
    Givin' up the tactical advantage since 2008.

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    jahwarrior72 wrote:
    i have a question, relating to owning a firearm in PR. a relative of mine is currently in possession of a military issue M1911, which was my great uncle's; he served during WWII, and brought it back to PR. the laws then were different than they are now, and he knows he's not supposed to have it now. it's been sitting in a box in his attic, and he only takes it out once in awhile to make sure it's not rusting.

    he's unaware of any gunstores in PR, and is afraid that even if he does find an FFL, he might get in trouble for simply having it in his house. my father lives in PR, and he mentioned that i own and carry here in PA, so he wanted to know if there was any way to ship to an FFL here, to get it out of his house, without getting in trouble. he just wants it away from him. is there any way to do this legally? i don't want to see him get in any legal trouble, and i admit, the thought of getting an original Army isue 1911 excites me beyond words.
    Do you happen to own a really fast cigarette boat? :P

    I suspect that your uncle is between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

    Firearms law for Puerto Rico - it appears that one must have a permit to possess a gun.
    http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/Federal/Read.aspx?id=57

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    so he wanted to know if there was any way to ship to an FFL here, to get it out of his house, without getting in trouble.

    No. As of GCA of 1986, no more FAs to imported to the good old USA.

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    Cagueits I am in the process of getting back home (PR) after spending 23 yrs in the US. I will like to get in touch if possible regarding the current law in PR. I do have a P220 Sig, HK 45 and short barrel shot gun for home protection. My question is: Option1-Would it be easier as well as cost effective to do a FFL from Calif to PR or can I get my weapons home by plane and register them there?
    Option2-Sell here and buy in PR as well as request all the permits such as, ownership Lic, shooting range and eventually CCW.
    Thanks in advance and look forward to get any light my way by you or anyone that has any experience or knowledge regarding this.


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    iamgone09 wrote:
    Cagueits I am in the process of getting back home (PR) after spending 23 yrs in the US. I will like to get in touch if possible regarding the current law in PR. I do have a P220 Sig, HK 45 and short barrel shot gun for home protection. My question is: Option1-Would it be easier as well as cost effective to do a FFL from Calif to PR or can I get my weapons home by plane and register them there?
    Option2-Sell here and buy in PR as well as request all the permits such as, ownership Lic, shooting range and eventually CCW.
    Thanks in advance and look forward to get any light my way by you or anyone that has any experience or knowledge regarding this.
    No disrespect intended , but have you read this thread yet?

    I think not - it is a good place to start and is full of reference material.

    Never simply accept what you read anywhere - verify for yourself.

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    roostergod wrote:
    Ok Im going for a security guard job and need a handgun permit, So I live in quebradillas,PR PLEASE could someone help me out and show me or tell me how to go about this and wha I need to do to get everythig in order, Plus I would love for someone that has permits to bring me to a range so we can go shotting for the day, thanks and hope to hear from you soohn

    thanks again
    Erik
    (787)291-7992
    :celebrate
    PM sent.

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    iamgone09 wrote:
    Cagueits I am in the process of getting back home (PR) after spending 23 yrs in the US. I will like to get in touch if possible regarding the current law in PR. I do have a P220 Sig, HK 45 and short barrel shot gun for home protection. My question is: Option1-Would it be easier as well as cost effective to do a FFL from Calif to PR or can I get my weapons home by plane and register them there?
    Option2-Sell here and buy in PR as well as request all the permits such as, ownership Lic, shooting range and eventually CCW.
    Thanks in advance and look forward to get any light my way by you or anyone that has any experience or knowledge regarding this.
    PM sent.

  21. #21
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    Sounds like Puerto AustaliaRico?

    We in Aus., have annual firearms licence fees, but we can pay yearly increments up to 5 years in advance. If we are members of a target pistol club we have range fees, and membership fees. SSAA membership is also at a cost.

    If none oflicence fees and pistol club feesare renewed before expiry, they are immediatelycancelled and the whole long, labourious, ridiculious, legal, and political system takes over and even the training and waiting periods beginagain,and most people by then have had enough and justjust give up? I was at a major city police command center,station some years ago with some handguns which I was told in writing had to be presented to have the barrel lengths measured and recorded, yes believe it.

    Whilst I was theregentleman walked in and handed in two beautiful antique hand guns to the officer at the desk. The officer asked him why he was handing them in?

    His reply was: "I have had enough." These handguns belonged to my grandfather and its become far too time consuming and too much trouble for me to keep them any longer. he appeared to me to be heartbroken.

    Haz.
    When a criminal invades your home and has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.

    My Definition of Gun Control: The idea that dozens of people found dead in the Broadway Café, Tasmania, and many also seriously wounded, all while waiting for police, who were called to show up and protect them, is somehow morally superior to having several armed and therefore alive civilian's explaining to police how the attacker got that fatal bullet wound.

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    Yep, I often worry that if the USA lost their guns (highly unlikely) the remaining gun rights of the world would follow...

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    Instead of separate thread under International, let's create a section in the States section entitled "U.S. Territories" and slide this one home, there.
    Our rights are not subject to "interpretation" by well-meaning but Constitutionally illiterate politicians. They are absolute and unwavering, as are We the People. Some rights are specifically mentioned; many are not. ALL are protected by our Constitution, especially the Ninth and Tenth Amendments

    "One of the best things about our Republic is that we're as free to have our own opinions as we are from having the opinions of others forced upon us."

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMrMitch View Post
    No. As of GCA of 1986, no more FAs to imported to the good old USA.
    #1 It's the GCA (Gun Control Act) of 1968, which was amended by the FOPA (Firearm Owner's Protection Act) of 1986. The latter removed the restriction that one needed an FFL to sell ammunition, changed the standard for a conviction under the NFA from scienter (same standard commonly applied to statutory rape - It doesn't matter if you were outright lied to, you're still going to prison) to knowing (you have to know or should have known that the gun was illegally modified), and a few other things as well as banning the manufacture of any new machine guns. The import of machine guns was prohibited by the original GCA in 1968.

    #2 An M1911 is not a machine gun. It is a semi-automatic handgun and is unaffected by either the GCA's import provision or FOPA's prohibition.

    #3 Puerto Rico is part of the US, so bringing something from Puerto Rico to a state would not be importing. That said, if it were a MG (see #2), it would have had to have been registered by 1968 and all transfers following the NFA. Even then, you need ATF permission to cross state lines with a Class 3 firearm.

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