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Do some of you think....

GenkiSudo

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....that the only reason you OC is to try and get a negative reaction?



Now before any of you get all defensive let me state my case. I'm a military veteran and currently work in law enforcement, I have been around weapons my entire life and completely support the rights we are entitled to. I was introduced to this forums several weeks ago and have been reading posts almost daily since then. In my opinion, the majority of people on here are level headed and don't OC just to get a negative reaction but I've read posts that either subtly or overtly talk about going somewhere looking for someone to "step all over my rights".



Do you think those people give OC a bad name....and really is it something to brag about? I'm sure us CCW folks will be getting an earload of crap after the latest Grey Poupon incident. I'm sure you've all heard the argument of OC and being the initial target if something were to happen....what is your argument aside from OC being a deterrent? How many of you that OC also have your CCW?
 

GenkiSudo

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Instead of folks getting all e-hurt and throwing the insults, how about just answering some questions or asking some back in a civilized manner?

Where better to ask questions about OC than an OC board? I'm not against OC in the least....just making a casual observation about some of the proponents of OC. Call names, cite others work all you want....I would rather have someone have an adult discussion about what THEY think and not others thoughts on OC as a deterrent.

I agree with it being a deterrent...I can also see it being a bullseye painted on your hip.
 

GeneticsDave

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sfemti33 wrote:
Instead of citing someone elses work why dont YOU tell me why my logic is flawed, in a less condescending, talking down to kind of way. Remember, Im an adult.
I wasn't being condescending... and why reinvent the wheel? Read it if you want, if not, don't.
 

GeneticsDave

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GenkiSudo wrote:
Instead of folks getting all e-hurt and throwing the insults, how about just answering some questions or asking some back in a civilized manner?

Where better to ask questions about OC than an OC board? I'm not against OC in the least....just making a casual observation about some of the proponents of OC. Call names, cite others work all you want....I would rather have someone have an adult discussion about what THEY think and not others thoughts on OC as a deterrent.

I agree with it being a deterrent...I can also see it being a bullseye painted on your hip.
The question you asked was, "Do some of you think that the only reason you OC is to try and get a negative reaction?" It was YOUR question that made you look like a troll, not my response. And calling someone a troll is not name calling, it's a standard internet forum term:

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
 

GenkiSudo

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GeneticsDave wrote:
sfemti33 wrote:
Instead of citing someone elses work why dont YOU tell me why my logic is flawed, in a less condescending, talking down to kind of way. Remember, Im an adult.
I wasn't being condescending... and why reinvent the wheel? Read it if you want, if not, don't.

I read it and it has several valid points, but there's also a counter point that is just as valid to nearly every point he makes.

But back to my original questions. Open carry....why do you personally do it? Because you can, because it's a deterrent, because you are looking for someone to step on your rights? Do you think that those people who do OC just to look for someone to violate their rights are a help or a hindrance? Do you have your CC?
 

GenkiSudo

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And it also looks like you focused on that one sentence then wrote your reply. Look at the next paragraph where I said that during my brief time browsing the forum, the majority of posts I've read come from level headed folks who aren't being antagonistic about their OC, but I have come across posts where I get the felling people are doing it just to get a negative reaction out of others.
 

GeneticsDave

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Well, I carry for protection. I like OC more for comfort and the outward deterent to crime - the ability to educate those who ask questions is nice as well. I don't know anyone who open carries for attention.
 

GenkiSudo

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GeneticsDave wrote:
Well, I carry for protection. I like OC more for comfort and the outward deterent to crime - the ability to educate those who ask questions is nice as well. I don't know anyone who open carries for attention.
Thank you much....do you also have a CC?
 

ScottyT

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I carry to protect myself and my loved ones, that is the most important thing. It doesn't matter HOW you carry as long as you do it and refuse to be a victim. OC vs. CC is simply a matter of personal preference -- I do both every single day.

As far as the deterrence argument goes, there is no hard data (like surveys of violent offenders) either way to back up either side, though everything I have read seems to point to deterrence rather than "shoot me first."

I find the tactical argument a bit silly, primarily because, as mainsail has pointed out very effectively, surprise is NOT a defensive strategy. CCers are just as likely to be targeted as a non-carrier of the same awareness level, OCers would only be targeted by the crazy, mass-murder types of criminals that are far more rare than everyday thugs looking for an easy score.

I do not go looking for negative encounters when I OC, in fact in the almost 5 months that I have been OCing I have yet to have a negative encounter with anyone, citizen or LEO. I do think that more people should carry in areas where they are more likely to have a negative encounter. For example, the police in Logan have made it clear that they will be enforcing their opinions instead of the law (see "Logan" thread). In cases like that, we should get as many people as we can OCing in Logan, as the LE agency being paid by us that are supposed to serve us really need to learn a lesson -- if that lesson takes a false arrest lawsuit, so be it.

A common argument I hear (online, as I never meet any resistance actually OCing) is that "this isn't the Wild Wild West anymore." Maybe it should be. Crime was lower, people were more polite, and I know I would love to see some "Wanted: Dead or Alive" posters up for some of the scumbags out there.

I carry for protection, I carry openly to educate and protect my rights -- and those education opportunities come far more often than non-OCers like to believe.
 

ScottyT

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sfemti33 wrote:
Wow, thank you for a level headed and fair analysis. Well done, do you personally know of people on here that do it just to antagonize though? Im honestly very curious about that.

All of the people on here that I have met (because I don't "know" anyone I haven't met) are very polite and fun to be around. I don't think any of them are the type to go looking for trouble -- except maybe that TJ guy... :p (I am kidding, in case the emoticion wasn't enough)

I think that the reason it might seem like some are just out for trouble is because negative experiences are posted far more often than "nothing happened." Nothing happens 99% of the time, people aren't interested in that, they want to hear about the times when stuff goes down.
 

UTOC-45-44

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Morgan, Utah, USA
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GenkiSudo wrote:
....that the only reason you OC is to try and get a negative reaction?



Now before any of you get all defensive let me state my case. I'm a military veteran and currently work in law enforcement, I have been around weapons my entire life and completely support the rights we are entitled to. I was introduced to this forums several weeks ago and have been reading posts almost daily since then. In my opinion, the majority of people on here are level headed and don't OC just to get a negative reaction but I've read posts that either subtly or overtly talk about going somewhere looking for someone to "step all over my rights".



Do you think those people give OC a bad name....and really is it something to brag about? I'm sure us CCW folks will be getting an earload of crap after the latest Grey Poupon incident. I'm sure you've all heard the argument of OC and being the initial target if something were to happen....what is your argument aside from OC being a deterrent? How many of you that OC also have your CCW?

I do believe SOME OCers DO give OCing a bad name and appearently yesterday CCWers are to :cuss:.

We will see ALL kinds of people no matter where we are and what we do or how we do it. I firmly believe in the 2nd Amendment Right as well as the 9 other ones:D.

To OC servesa fewpurposes for myself.

1 ) The derrent factor.

2) HOT/ Warm weather. It's nice to walk outside WITHOUT any extra layers.

3) And the Obvious one. To make people aware of the Right they have in this Beautiful Country.

Remember, a person between 18-21 CANNOT have a CCW. So the ONLY option they have IS to OC. I do believe that some of those folks wish sometimes that they HAD a CCW. Would make it easier sometimes. I just wish Utah Adopted the same tinking as Vermont and Alasksa where a "Privilege" is NOT needed to CCW.

To be honest, I OC more than I CC but I still have the option to do either one. I don;t have to hide it "under a bushel" so to speak.

It's easier to seperate a Lawful/Law-abiding Citizen/Resident from a Criminal when a person OC. Why? you may ask.

A Criminal DOES NOT want a be confronted by a LEO. As a Law-abiding Citizen/Resident I have NOTHING to hide.

A Criminal CCW's NO MATTER WHAT. The Criminal LOVES Gun-control. Just makes their Job SOOO much easier. They will still have Guns while the Law-abiding WILL NOT.

I have deterred crimes by OCing. I know so and many others here on the Forum have expressed that they have done so to.

Just my .40



TJ
 

ScottyT

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sfemti33 wrote:
I am interested in coming to one of your meets, and I know of some of my friends are as well, how well would we be received even if we dont OC? Is it uncommon to have individuals show up who dont OC?
Everyone is welcome at our get-togethers, OCers, CCers, non-carriers, whatever -- The more the merrier!

Not sure if the August meet is planned yet, if it has been mentioned over on UCC I am sure someone will link it.
 

UTOC-45-44

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sfemti33 wrote:
I am interested in coming to one of your meets, and I know of some of my friends are as well, how well would we be received even if we dont OC? Is it uncommon to have individuals show up who dont OC?


ANYBODY is welcome. Doesn't matter if they a carrying at all. We are a happy bunch of people and want to make sure that ANYBODY that comes is welcomed into "the fold":lol:. They will be coverted soon enough:lol:.

TJ
 
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