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Do some of you think....

MontanaCZ

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Milford Colony, Montana, USA
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My wife and I carry, and carried for years. I grew up with OC, being on a ranch and protecting livestock. We carried rifles most of the time as well.

My wife and I then moved to the city, back east, and promptly got CC permits. What changed was our personal protection factor went up (way up). Once we had kids, it was kicked a notch upwards even more, and we have had some close calls that were prevented by being aware of our surroundings.

We have since relocated back to Montana, and have a ranch with livestock again. We primarily OC around the ranch here. I usually OC during the summer (going to town) as you just want to wear less clothing, and I carry OWB. During the fall/winter I am CC since you have more clothing. While our view of needing it for personal protection is less than when we were in the city, Montana is not the place it used to be, or at least the way that I perceived it.

-CZ
 

UTOC-45-44

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MontanaCZ wrote:
My wife and I carry, and carried for years. I grew up with OC, being on a ranch and protecting livestock. We carried rifles most of the time as well.

My wife and I then moved to the city, back east, and promptly got CC permits. What changed was our personal protection factor went up (way up). Once we had kids, it was kicked a notch upwards even more, and we have had some close calls that were prevented by being aware of our surroundings.

We have since relocated back to Montana, and have a ranch with livestock again. We primarily OC around the ranch here. I usually OC during the summer (going to town) as you just want to wear less clothing, and I carry OWB. During the fall/winter I am CC since you have more clothing. While our view of needing it for personal protection is less than when we were in the city, Montana is not the place it used to be, or at least the way that I perceived it.

-CZ




Montana is not the place it used to be, or at least the way that I perceived it.


You got that right for certain,Sir.

I mean NO place is what it USE to be. The world is filled with more violence.

Montana IS a Beautiful State. If I was single I would be there yesterday.

TJ
 

Francis Marion

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May 22, 2008
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Taylorsville, Utah, USA
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My background includes over 23 years in the Army Special Forces. All this time I have studied the art of insurgency which is virtually criminal in nature; I understand the criminal mindset. When planning for an attack I always look for the softest target that will acchieve my goals. I OC for tactical and strategic reasons. When I OC, I am not the first target, my vicinity becomes the last target.

Dispite what others have already said on the subject, there are MANY examples to support this tactic. All our mass murder attemps are in "gun free zones" and nobody has ever attempted one at a gun show. If anyone can submit even one example where an armed citizen was targeted first rather than being a deterent I may sway my opinion some. Until then, I will continue to think that CC is the the tactical superiority that many claim it to be.

I have also, on a couple of occations, suggested that we conduct OC events in areas that have reputations or policies against OC. This is not in an attempt to find trouble but rather the opposite. I want to make OC a common and accepted practice so the touble that some here have had will cease.

The "not the wild west" argument is one that is so mentally shortsighted that it backfires when any data is provided. We are in far greater need of weapons for self defense today than the common citizen needed in the "wild west."
 

UTOC-45-44

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GenkiSudo wrote:
....that the only reason you OC is to try and get a negative reaction?



Now before any of you get all defensive let me state my case. I'm a military veteran and currently work in law enforcement, I have been around weapons my entire life and completely support the rights we are entitled to. I was introduced to this forums several weeks ago and have been reading posts almost daily since then. In my opinion, the majority of people on here are level headed and don't OC just to get a negative reaction but I've read posts that either subtly or overtly talk about going somewhere looking for someone to "step all over my rights".



Do you think those people give OC a bad name....and really is it something to brag about? I'm sure us CCW folks will be getting an earload of crap after the latest Grey Poupon incident. I'm sure you've all heard the argument of OC and being the initial target if something were to happen....what is your argument aside from OC being a deterrent? How many of you that OC also have your CCW?

One of the reasons to OC is that it helps you as a person to behave much better. It adjust your attitude and behavior.

We don't have any "BRANDISHING" laws in Utah BUT your behavior that counts.

[align=left][size=-1]UTAH STATE LEGISLATURE[/size]
[size=-1]Home | Site Map | Calendar | Code/Constitution | House | Senate | Search[/size]
76-10-506. Threatening with or using dangerous weapon in fight or quarrel.
Every person, except those persons described in Section 76-10-503, who, not in necessary self defense in the presence of two or more persons, draws or exhibits any dangerous weapon in an angry and threatening manner or unlawfully uses the same in any fight or quarrel is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
[/align]
Amended by Chapter 101, 1992 General Session
Download Code Section Zipped WordPerfect 76_10_050600.ZIP 1,720 Bytes


[line]

Sections in this Chapter|Chapters in this Title|All Titles|Legislative Home Page


Last revised: Wednesday, July 23, 2008
 

Cadet Higham

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Salt Lake, , USA
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GenkiSudo wrote:
GeneticsDave wrote:
sfemti33 wrote:
Instead of citing someone elses work why dont YOU tell me why my logic is flawed, in a less condescending, talking down to kind of way. Remember, Im an adult.
I wasn't being condescending... and why reinvent the wheel? Read it if you want, if not, don't.

I read it and it has several valid points, but there's also a counter point that is just as valid to nearly every point he makes.

But back to my original questions. Open carry....why do you personally do it? Because you can, because it's a deterrent, because you are looking for someone to step on your rights? Do you think that those people who do OC just to look for someone to violate their rights are a help or a hindrance? Do you have your CC?
I don't have a CCW, so I OC. I carry for the protection of my family and myself.
 

UTOC-45-44

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sfemti33 wrote:
I don't have a CCW, so I OC. I carry for the protection of my family and myself.
Ok. Do you not have a CCW because you see no need for it? Or what is your reasoning, not trying to argue, just seems like having one in the plug would be more useful since you have to be "legally unloaded" to OC w/o CC.

I believe he is not old enough to get a CCW yet hence the ONLY way to carry is to OC.



TJ
 

UTOC-45-44

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sfemti33 wrote:
UTOC-45-44 wrote:
sfemti33 wrote:
I believe he is not old enough to get a CCW yet hence the ONLY way to carry is to OC.



TJ
Well ok, so for those who DONT have a CCW, why not? Any particular reason?

You mean that they ARE of age and still DO NOT have a permit ? Is that your Q?

They just don;'t want Government involvement more than neccesary in life and to OC WITHOUT a permit is a CONSTITUTIONALLY protected RIGHT.

To have a CFP is a PRIVILEGE by the State/Government.

TJ
 

UTOC-45-44

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sfemti33 wrote:
You mean that they ARE of age and still DO NOT have a permit ? Is that your Q?

They just don;'t want Government involvement more than neccesary in life and to OC WITHOUT a permit is a CONSTITUTIONALLY protected RIGHT.

To have a CFP is a PRIVILEGE by the State/Government.

TJ

Yes, that is my question. So do you speak for everyone on this board, or can anyone else tell me reasons why you wouldnt want a CCW besides "government involvement"? I understand its a Constitutionally protected right, you dont need to use all CAPS. Im trying to understand what each individuals motivation is. Really dont want to get into a debate, this is purely observational at this point for me. I have had a CCW for 5 years, Im in Law Enforcement, Im just a curious lurker.:shock:

Sorry:uhoh:. The Caps were intended for Obvious reasons.
So do you speak for everyone on this board

In General I believe I do. Been around on the Board long enough to understand this.

TJ
 

Cykaos

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Where did he take away anyone's freedom of speech? As for government involvement as you know a CCW requires a daily background check. I have a CCW permit but it was a difficult decision because of the daily background check. I believe a lot in privacy rights. Not that I have ever or will ever commit a felony and I am not trying to hide anything. I just don't like background checks anymore than I would want my 4th amendment rights taken away. I don't want my car or house searched whenever someone wants and it has nothing to do with having something to hide.

In the end I decided to get the CCW permit because of the privileges it granted me and I accepted the daily background checks as a cost of those privileges.

When TJ says he generally speaks for the board it means he knows the people here and has a very good idea of their reasons for OC etc. He is not pretending to be the only person who can speak or taking away anyone else's right to speak.

As he said the people who OC and don't have a CCW are the people who are either underage for CCW or they don't want the government involvement in their lives as I just explained. Most of the people who do OC also have CCW.

You can sit here all day but you are going to get the same answers over and over. Your sarcastic tone and exaggerations are classic logical fallacy and do not condone open discussion or debate.
 

Cykaos

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You exercise your rights when you feel it is needed or warranted. I don't think you should need to exercise them all every day. As for carrying a firearm for self defense it is something you do everyday. Not because you have to exercise the right but simply because you want protection everyday from the unexpected. The whole point of your rights is that you have the right to do something. You aren't required to do it or have to do it every day. There are some rights I exercise everyday and others that I do once a week, once a month, once a year, once every 4 years etc. It doesn't mean that any one of those is more important than another. You just exercise that right when you feel it is needed.
 

UTOC-45-44

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sfemti33 wrote:
Off on another tangent, I wonder if each and every one of you exercise your "rights" on a daily basis as well. Do you "peacably assemble" every time you go out of your house?1st amendment also states you have the right to "free exercise of religion", do you display proudly on your shirt every time you walk out of your house what religion you may be? LDS, Jewish, Catholic, Muslim, do you openly display that? And if you DONT do that every day, why not? Is there a caste system with regards to how "important" your rights are? Has each and every one of you voted in EVERY election since you were 18, another right given you? If you do, I applaud you for securing and using every one of your rights daily. I wish I had the character to do that, all I can say is I am trying. But if you dont, why are you making the sticking point firearms? Doesnt that make it a bit hypocritical if you assert your "rights" on one thing all the time, but not your others? Hell, it even makes me hypocritical if I want to use one right or another. Where does it end? Or begin for that matter?

I was just able to vote here in this country for the 1st time. So yes, I try to do my part. I became a U.S Citizen back in Jan of this year. Been here in the U.S for 10 years this Aug (8th).

I believe 100% in the Bill of Rights. EVERYBOYS rights.



TJ

TJ
 
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