Do some of you think....

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sfemti33 wrote:

Cykaos wrote:

You exercise your rights when you feel it is needed or warranted. I don't think you should need to exercise them all every day. As for carrying a firearm for self defense it is something you do everyday. Not because you have to exercise the right but simply because you want protection everyday from the unexpected. The whole point of your rights is that you have the right to do something. You aren't required to do it or have to do it every day. There are some rights I exercise everyday and others that I do once a week, once a month, once a year, once every 4 years etc. It doesn't mean that any one of those is more important than another. You just exercise that right when you feel it is needed.

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Thank you again. Do you feel the need to OC while watering your lawn? Or do you only do it when you are off property? Not me being flippant this time just curious where you feel your self defense is and isnt warranted.

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Remember how Jesse James died ?

The ONE time he took of his revolvers and was killedin HIS OWN house. By people he trusted even:what:.

A personwill NEVER know when a firearm is needed.

TJ

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I live in WVC in a bad neighborhood so watering my lawn is much more dangerous than many other activities. Several people have been shot in my neighborhood and I have had police jump my fence and chase suspects through my back yard.

I think of carrying a firearm whether OC or CC like wearing a seat belt. You wear it everyday but probably won't ever need it, but when you do need it you are glad you had it. You never know when you might need to protect yourself or others and I'd rather be ready and never need it than sorry I had left it home that day. I honestly hope I never need to use it.

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Just out of curiosity ?? Are you a WVC Officer, sfemti33???

TJ

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GenkiSudo wrote:

....that the only reason you OC is to try and get a negative reaction?



Now before any of you get all defensive let me state my case. I'm a military veteran and currently work in law enforcement, I have been around weapons my entire life and completely support the rights we are entitled to. I was introduced to this forums several weeks ago and have been reading posts almost daily since then. In my opinion, the majority of people on here are level headed and don't OC just to get a negative reaction but I've read posts that either subtly or overtly talk about going somewhere looking for someone to "step all over my rights".



Do you think those people give OC a bad name....and really is it something to brag about? I'm sure us CCW folks will be getting an earload of crap after the latest Grey Poupon incident. I'm sure you've all heard the argument of OC and being the initial target if something were to happen....what is your argument aside from OC being a deterrent? How many of you that OC also have your CCW?

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Heh.. It's "Stomp" all over our rights BTW. Also, I am considering OC and waiting for a holster. I have only CCW for the last 12 or so years and I DON'T want any negative reactions from anyone, but that doesn't mean it can't or won't happen. Quite frankly, the prospect of OC for meis also a lotabout comfort. There is no holster in the world that is as comfortable as those you OC with as opposed to CCW (Don't start suggesting holsters. I have been down that road already. I know which one I want for both CCW and OC thanks to great people on this forum).

Also, society has stereotyped the "gun" as some kind of mystical object that goes about killing people all by iteself simply for the fact that it is a tool that "may be used for evil". If I'm not mistaken, almost anything that can be used for good can also be used for evil. The common misconception that "the scary all powerful gun" is only used for negative purposes, or only causes death and destruction, must be changed. OC is a good way to let others know that guns are all around us every day, and just because you don't see most of them because of CCW, it does not change the fact that they are still there. They always have been and always will be until our ignorantand skeptical society allow legislators to takethem away.

The public needs to be educated. It's the only way to stop the madness. If more of us are exercising our RIGHT to open carry, then society will eventually, after much strife and resistance, start to accept the gun as a common part of American culture once again. The "gun" has always been here. It has just gone underground because of needless fear and persecution.

If one would only do their research and educate themselves about the real numbers in the firearms scheme of things, they would be simply amazed at the benefit of an armed society. The facts are staggering. Canada and Australia have learned the hard way. Just like when "Gays" started coming out of the closet, OC is a great way for us to also "come out of the closet" in a manner of speaking. Society resisted the idea when they did it. They will resist us too, but proof is in the pudding. Society has moved on from the gay revolution and so too will they move on from ours if we continue to make our presence known by OC. This is a lifestyle that is also perfectly legal and should not be feared by the leftist liberals who would seek to take it all away from us and hand overour rights to bear arms to the criminals.

Kevin

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As for rights being more important than others. I personally think some are more important than others. They are all important but lets use the example of politicians. I am not going to go into a political debate here but lets say Politician A is weak on gun rights but strong on other things I find really important and Politician B is strong on gun rights but weak on other things I find really important. I have to make a choice which rights do I think are more important for myself and the betterment of this country. I would vote for Politician A even though he may not have the same opinion of gun rights as I do he does value other things that I find more important.

I am not going to list out what rights I think are more important than gun rights because this isn't the place to discuss other politics other than guns. I will just say in my personal opinion I think some things are more important than gun rights. You will never find a politician that matches your values 100% so you have to decide what ideals are more important to you.

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sfemti33 wrote:

UTOC-45-44 wrote:

Just out of curiosity ?? Are you a WVC Officer, sfemti33???

TJ

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No, Im not a West Valley Officer. Are you trying to poke jabs at me because I bring a differing view from your limitless knowledge? Or are you just being facetious because you would never want to trample on my rights, or be disrespectful, in any way. I know you wish others to respect your rights, I can only assume you would do the same. Was that a poor assumption on my part?

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No. I just want to understand where you are coming from. That's all. And if you were a WVC PD you could possibly have known of me from around town.

That was a poor assumption ( You know what they say about making an ASSUmption:lol

TJ

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TJ is correct, I am not old enough for a Utah CCW permit. I am in the process of getting a Maine Permit, just doing my waiting time.

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sfemti33 wrote:

No. I just want to understand where you are coming from. That's all. And if you were a WVC PD you could possibly have known of me from around town.

That was a poor assumption ( You know what they say about making an ASSUmption:lol

TJ

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So you are telling me it was a poor assumption to think you would respect my rights and my thoughts? I would have hoped someone who had such high integrity in the gun realm would have that same integrity in every aspect of his life.

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This was a poor assumption

Are you trying to poke jabs at me because I bring a differing view from your limitless knowledge? Or are you just being facetious

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I respect EVERYBODY rights.

I became a U.S Citizen due to the RIGHTS that this country have for it's people.

If I didn't respect YOUR rights what good would I be?NONE what so ever.

As people we may not agree, but I will still respect your Rights NO MATTER what. I would stand up for your Rights even if I didn't know you.

If my life was on the line to defend YOUR Rights...I would do it.

TJ

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UTOC-45-44 wrote:

sfemti33 wrote:

UTOC-45-44 wrote:

Just out of curiosity ?? Are you a WVC Officer, sfemti33???

TJ

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No, Im not a West Valley Officer. Are you trying to poke jabs at me because I bring a differing view from your limitless knowledge? Or are you just being facetious because you would never want to trample on my rights, or be disrespectful, in any way. I know you wish others to respect your rights, I can only assume you would do the same. Was that a poor assumption on my part?

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No. I just want to understand where you are coming from. That's all. And if you were a WVC PD you could possibly have known of me from around town.

That was a poor assumption ( You know what they say about making an ASSUmption:lol

TJ

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limitless knowledge ????

That is being so disrespectful.

Just out of curiosity ?? Are you a WVC Officer, sfemti33???

TJ

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It was just a Q out of PURE curiosity:uhoh:

TJ

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sfemti33 wrote:

limitless knowledge ????

TJ

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That was me being a dick, Im apologize.:?

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Accepted.

I respect the fact that you are on this Forum asking Q's. It hepls you out, me outand many other that a visiting the Forum.

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sfemti33, I believe that YOUR RIGHT TO LIFE is so IMPORTANT that I would defend it. NOT even knowing you.

I carry my sidearm wether Openly or Concealed so that I can be able to to PROTECT the RIGHT to life for ANYBODY that is being threatened to have his or hers taken away WITHOUT the chance to defend themselves.

Asidearm is NOT a toy but a SERIOUS tool and can be use correctly to defend life.

I do believe that life is EVEYBODIES RIGHT but I do NOT believe that a person just for the Hell of can take a persons life WITHOUT fearing the loss of his/her lifeor a 3rd partys lifebeing threatend by Serious Bodily injury or even Death.

Just my.40

TJ

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76-2-402. Force in defense of person -- Forcible felony defined.
(1) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that force is necessary to defend himself or a third person against such other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, that person is justified in using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury only if he or she reasonably believes that force is necessary to prevent death or serious bodily injury to himself or a third person as a result of the other's imminent use of unlawful force, or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
(2) A person is not justified in using force under the circumstances specified in Subsection (1) if he or she:
(a) initially provokes the use of force against himself with the intent to use force as an excuse to inflict bodily harm upon the assailant;
(b) is attempting to commit, committing, or fleeing after the commission or attempted commission of a felony; or
(c) (i) was the aggressor or was engaged in a combat by agreement, unless he withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to the other person his intent to do so and, notwithstanding, the other person continues or threatens to continue the use of unlawful force; and
(ii) for purposes of Subsection (i) the following do not, by themselves, constitute "combat by agreement":
(A) voluntarily entering into or remaining in an ongoing relationship; or
(B) entering or remaining in a place where one has a legal right to be.
(3) A person does not have a duty to retreat from the force or threatened force described in Subsection (1) in a place where that person has lawfully entered or remained, except as provided in Subsection (2)(c).
(4) For purposes of this section, a forcible felony includes aggravated assault, mayhem, aggravated murder, murder, manslaughter, kidnapping, and aggravated kidnapping, rape, forcible sodomy, rape of a child, object rape, object rape of a child, sexual abuse of a child, aggravated sexual abuse of a child, and aggravated sexual assault as defined in Title 76, Chapter 5, and arson, robbery, and burglary as defined in Title 76, Chapter 6. Any other felony offense which involves the use of force or violence against a person so as to create a substantial danger of death or serious bodily injury also constitutes a forcible felony. Burglary of a vehicle, defined in Section 76-6-204, does not constitute a forcible felony except when the vehicle is occupied at the time unlawful entry is made or attempted.
(5) In determining imminence or reasonableness under Subsection (1), the trier of fact may consider, but is not limited to, any of the following factors:
(a) the nature of the danger;
(b) the immediacy of the danger;
(c) the probability that the unlawful force would result in death or serious bodily injury;
(d) the other's prior violent acts or violent propensities; and
(e) any patterns of abuse or violence in the parties' relationship.

Amended by Chapter 26, 1994 General Session
Download Code Section Zipped WordPerfect 76_02_040200.ZIP 3,183 Bytes


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Last revised: Wednesday, July 23, 2008