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Thread: Got an email from an FFL used to xfer a rifle over 2 years ago

  1. #1
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    I bought a AR15 via gunbroker over 2 years ago, and used a local FFL (actually an ebay dealer who offered FFL services) to transfer the rifle to me, as it was out of state (i'm in Florida, so its all good state-law wise).

    I got this email today:

    Hi,

    ATF is requesting we supply them with the "Name and address or Name and
    FFL#" for the firearm we transferred for you. We need this information by
    7/28/08, so please forward this information ASAP. Thank you for your
    cooperation.

    Thank You,

    xxxxxxxxx
    This guy should have had my address when I filled out the paperwork, and called in my NCIS check when he transferred the rifle to me. Should I respond to him at all, or email back and ask why he needs my new address (i've moved across the state since then) or is there a legal requirement for me to provide him or the ATF my information? (I would imagine he couldn't compell me, the ATF itself would have to directly contact me if they want me for whatever reason).

    Opinions, comments, suggestions?

  2. #2
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    You fulfilled all your legal obligations when you bought the gun.

    No need to divulge more personal information.

  3. #3
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    I would be real suspicious of that kind of email.

    I suggest just ignoring it and any future emails from the same person.

    The last thing you want is some kind of paper trail between you and this guy who may not have been completely on the up and up with the transfer in the first place.


  4. #4
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    Is this Email from the gunbroker you bought it from, or the local state FFL dealer you transferred it through?

    It sounds fishy to me. I do not know much about Federal law how it relates to power and procedures of the ATF, but I thought with a gun trace, all they can view is the ATF dealer's records...

    Maybe that's it. Maybe the FFL didn't keep proper records, or the records were lost or destroyed, and the guy is trying to recreate them so he don't get busted?

    You can always reply back and ask some questions, like why the ATF needs to know, was the gun used in some sort of crime, is this for an official gun trace, did they lose their records or something, etc. etc. See if their answers help influence your decision to answer their questions.

    ...Good luck, keep us updated...
    ...Orygunner...



  5. #5
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    This email is from the local FFL i used.

  6. #6
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    he probably lost or screwed something up...not your problem IMHO.

  7. #7
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    is your name and address in the phone book?

  8. #8
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    Nope, I moved about 2 hours away in the same state, and I haven't had a land-line in about 4 years

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    You know that this FFL will be scrood blued and tattooed by the BATFags? Like Red's of Idaho. Do we hang together or separately?

  10. #10
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    Nothing wrong with giving him your address info from when you bought it... Shoot him an email saying something like... Here's my address that I gave you last time... I hope you don't lose it again!

    Don't lie and tell him it's current or whatever, but I too would be cautious about giving out current info... Maybe a phone call would be better than giving info over an email account that could have been hacked or something and the person is contacting everyone in the contact list trying to phish out some info...

    Try and get him to tell you the order number, or a description of the firearm he sold you to prove he isn't BS'ing...

  11. #11
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    jaredbelch wrote:
    Nothing wrong with giving him your address info from when you bought it... Shoot him an email saying something like... Here's my address that I gave you last time... I hope you don't lose it again!

    Don't lie and tell him it's current or whatever, but I too would be cautious about giving out current info... Maybe a phone call would be better than giving info over an email account that could have been hacked or something and the person is contacting everyone in the contact list trying to phish out some info...

    Try and get him to tell you the order number, or a description of the firearm he sold you to prove he isn't BS'ing...
    +1

    Plus, it's fun to play to scammers. And it may help if someone the FFL's customer list got stolen, or something like that. Never hurts to inquire...

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    Do not replyto email...possiblyillegal access tocomputer records, or files kept by dealer, maybe legit, maybe not? If you feel you must contact this dealer, then do so by phone.Keep allemails and reciepts concerning transactionand wait. BATF will contact you if ofimportance.Theres something wrongwith this situation?

    Captain Jack, retired military

  13. #13
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    It's odd he has your email addy. I'd call the store and ask what's up. If he indeed screwed some paperwork and needs to fix it, I'd cooperate.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Apparently he also called my cell phone number during the day, I didn't receive the message until I left my home to go to dinner with my better half (darned new construction, all steel and aluminum, kills cell phone reception).

    I got this email today after asking him why he wanted it - sounds like he screwed the pooch. I am debating whether or not I should send him my address at the time of the purchase, or sending him nothing at all. As it is, I don't like the ATF keeping tabs on people who have not committed any crime.

    Also, this wasn't a gun store, its an ebay/auction trading business, who has an FFL simply to transfer firearms purchased via gunbroker and other auction sites that allow firearm auctions.


    xxxxxx,

    Unfortunately, the information was not originally recorded and it is purely
    for record keeping purposes. We as well as ATF will appreciate your
    cooperation.

    Thank you,

  15. #15
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    ChronoSphere wrote:
    xxxxxx,

    Unfortunately, the information was not originally recorded and it is purely
    for record keeping purposes. We as well as ATF will appreciate your
    cooperation.

    Thank you,
    So, for record keeping purposes, the records were not kept? :P

    Sounds like he definitely screwed up. I wouldn't want to let him get screwed by the ATF, though, so I would probably help him out.

    However, one thing I don't like is the officious tone he's taking in his correspondence. It may be that he's just trying to sound official (by constantly referring to himself in conjunction with the ATF) to avoid admitting that he made a big mistake and will be in big trouble if he doesn't fix it. On the other hand, it's a tone often taken by scammers. That combined with the fact that he doesn't give you any specific information (the date of the transfer or the type of the gun, for example) makes me somewhat suspicious.

    I would verify that he's actually the guy you did business with before continuing. Ask him what he knows about your transaction, and for that matter why the ATF is asking him for information. If he lost the records, how does he even know it's your information that the ATF wants?

  16. #16
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    I have heard that the ATF is beating up on FFL's revoking licenses and so on for minor infractions, so I guess they are getting looked at or may feel that they are going to get looked at soon and want to redo the books.

  17. #17
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    sounds weird to me.

  18. #18
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    Contact the local BAFTE branch and confirm that they are requesting this info, if so, give it to them directly...?

  19. #19
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    I'd call the shop/person personally, not reply via email. By becoming an FFL they are bound by strict record keeping rules. It sounds like the ATF did a records check, or is going to do a records check, and he is trying to get all his ducks in a row.



  20. #20
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    "BATF? Hi. I might have transferred a gun with a shady FFL. What should I do?"

  21. #21
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    "BATF? Hi. I might have transferred a gun with a shady FFL. What should I do?"
    Watch out, they might kick down your door and shoot your dog.

  22. #22
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    Yeah? Well then *I* won't be callin' the BATFEMADHS.gov

    I don't have a dog so they'd have to plant one. While I don't particularly like dogs neither do I want one to be shot while breaking down the door.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    As has already been said, there is quite a bit that just does not sound right.

    Contact the FFL who is asking for information, and ask him to confirm the exact firearm he is concerned about (name, rank, serial number (of firearm), date received in his shop, mother's maiden name,name ofFFL it was received from, etc.).

    Or since you have already taked with him, it may be time to stop by and discuss this in person. Ask to see the paperwork he screwed up, and after reviewing it provide only that which is needed.

    Bring a prepared written statement with you - one that details your being contacted and your efforts to cooperate with the FFL on a voluntary basis. Be sure to include that you provided the information to the FFL at the time of transfer and that all errors of ommission regarding any records are entirely his fault. Have him sign the statement under an affirmation that all the above is true and correct to the best of his knowledge and recollection.

    This may not CYA, but it will not hurt. Might be worth the few bucks spent to run this past a lawyer who specializes in criminal defense (harder to find one specializing in firearms law).

    Good luck to you.



    stay safe.

    skidmark
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  24. #24
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Do you still have the firearm? If you do not then this might be a law enforcement gun trace for a firearm used in a crime. If you stillhave the firearm than this is an FFL with paperwork problems or a scam.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  25. #25
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    I still have the firearm. I just spoke with him over the phone, and he clarified that he doesn't need my information, he needs the name/FFL of the person I bought it from, or if it was private, name and address. Apparently ATF had a meeting with him last week and were requesting the origination of all weapons transferred through him. All I fill out when I transfer a gun is a 4473 form, which doesn't list the origination - that would be his responsibility I would imagine, and nothing to do with me.

    In any case I don't have those records any more, so I'm just going to tell the guy that.

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