Oregon LEO broke "letter of the law" and was fined for it

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sv_libertarian wrote:

I think Bear has the right to his opinion, and it is formed from his real world experiences.

I can say this much, based on my experiences with officers over the years for various reasons I would be more inclined to trust the ones who found a legit parking space than those who didn't. It's the little things that add up.

I am very much aware of the nature of my job and the company I represent. When I am wearing anything with their logo on it, I am VERY careful about my behavior because it will reflect on the company.

Same thing with cops. If officers are allowed to get away with little infractions it WILL hurt the image of the officers and the agency, justified or not.

I'm careful to make sure the image of those I represent is not tarnished when I wear their logo, and I think the same is needed of LEOs. If I piss someone off wearing my work shirt I may lose one or two customers. If a LEO does something wrong while in uniform or in a cop car, they may lose the trust of an entire community.

It's tough, but I have some understanding of what it is.

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You are a wise man sv, and I agree with your opinion (although not always Bears). Here's a good example for you; We are allowed to stop at a grocery or whatever type of store (on our way home, in uniform/patrol car, off duty) to pick up food or necessities. Even though I am off-duty, I will not do this, as I do not wish to be seen by other customers "doing my shopping on company time". Although most would never make a verbal comment, I know some would assume that I am shopping on the taxpayers dollar. I personally care enough that I do not want to be seen in this light, and do not want my Dept's image tarnished either by those who may "assume".

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Johnny Law wrote:

sv_libertarian wrote:

I think Fred is driving at (no pun intended) the fact that LEOs are held to such a high standard that a minor infraction should be a much bigger deal for them. That said I tend to agree. If you see the cops violating even a small law out of convience for them, and in this case seeming to rely on their marked cruiser for that purpose then they should be held more accountable.

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I can agree with that, but does that make him a "azzwipe, two face moron, or indicate that he will"cheaton something big"?as Bear claims? Is it then acceptable for Officers to categorize citizen violatorsas these things as well? or is it just okay because they are citizens, and not held to as higha standard.

I hear those preaching complete equality, but then gripe when an Officer violates, and scream for them to be held to a higher standard.

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You claim to not be one of the cheater. Then why the hell are you so bent on defending anything they do? If he is a cheater, enforcing the rules on the rest of us, but ignoring them himself he deserves no respect from anyone. But then I've made it plain how I feel about the blue line and their total denial of the facts.

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

You claim to not be one of the cheater. Then why the hell are you so bent on defending anything they do? If he is a cheater, enforcing the rules on the rest of us, but ignoring them himself he deserves no respect from anyone. But then I've made it plain how I feel about the blue line and their total denial of the facts.

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This was clipped from a previous post, and hopefully answers your question.


"I personally do not agree with the Officer parking in that zone to merely eat lunch,"

If he had been on a call, it would be acceptaable.

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Johnny Law wrote:

Bear 45/70 wrote:

You claim to not be one of the cheater. Then why the hell are you so bent on defending anything they do? If he is a cheater, enforcing the rules on the rest of us, but ignoring them himself he deserves no respect from anyone. But then I've made it plain how I feel about the blue line and their total denial of the facts.

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This was clipped from a previous post, and hopefully answers your question.


"I personally do not agree with the Officer parking in that zone to merely eat lunch,"

If he had been on a call, it would be acceptaable.

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I agree withthe statements. But the arrogance to think thatthe no parking zone did not apply to him for a meal break is beyond any reason.

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Did anyone stop to think for a moment, that just maybe the officer truly believed he was allowed to park there? Maybe when he was new others did it, or a supervisor told him it was allowed.

Yup, a judge decided it was wrong. So wrong in fact, that the lawmakers seem to think the law should be tweaked to allow it in the future.

Kinda going to an extreme with the ASSumption that it was an intentional violation with indifference to the law and what not.

Quite the leap to say if a cop bends the rules for parking he will also perjure himself, plant drugs, abuse civil rights and any host of other things. If you want to suggest they will, then turnabout is fairplay and don't bitch if they decide every traffic infraction warrants a felony stop.

The world isn't black and white, there is a whole lot of gray in between...

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As someone that has been pulled over more than my fair share of times and let off with a warning or reduced fine I am more inclined to leave it alone if I were to see this happening. The issue that would piss me off if I was an Oregon resident is the fact that this gentleman decided to use the citizens of Oregon as an excuse to be a vindictive and petty individual looking to bully someone of authority. I wonder how much money he cost the citizens to try this case just to get a $35.00 fine.



Just my opinion.

Jeff

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Johnny Lawwrote:

We are allowed to stop at a grocery or whatever type of store (on our way home, in uniform/patrol car, off duty) to pick up food or necessities. Even though I am off-duty, I will not do this, as I do not wish to be seen by other customers "doing my shopping on company time". Although most would never make a verbal comment, I know some would assume that I am shopping on the taxpayers dollar. I personally care enough that I do not want to be seen in this light, and do not want my Dept's image tarnished either by those who may "assume".

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Mine is not the same example since I am not a LEO but my company has always required you to be out of uniform for any stops on your way to or from work. You can simply cover it up with a jacket if you wish. But no logos or insignia may be visible.

911Boss wrote:

Kinda going to an extreme with the ASSumption that it was an intentional violation with indifference to the law and what not.

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Ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

You claim to not be one of the cheater. Then why the hell are you so bent on defending anything they do? If he is a cheater, enforcing the rules on the rest of us, but ignoring them himself he deserves no respect from anyone. But then I've made it plain how I feel about the blue line and their total denial of the facts.

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"Cheater! Cheater! Cheater!" What is this third grade?

There are laws and there are rules. If a cop breaks the law, he should be held accountable to it under the same process as the rest of us. If he breaks a rule or regulation, his department has a disciplinary process to address that.

You love absolutes don't you Bear? Johnnie Law is defending "anything" another cop does, uh-huh. Sure... The blue line and their "total" denial of facts. You either watch too much TV or read too many dime-store novels.

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David.Car wrote:

911Boss wrote:

Kinda going to an extreme with the ASSumption that it was an intentional violation with indifference to the law and what not.

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Ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

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No it is not an excuse and I never said it was. By the same token, violation of the law is not proof of intent. Kind of a leap to use this to suggest some grand scheme to abuse his authority.

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The blue code of silence is, for better or for worse, quite real. And in one of the few times I'll agree with Bear...I think it's probably for the worse.

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"vindictive and petty individual looking to bully someone of authority"

How exactly does someone bully someone in authority? I'm thinking that is pretty much an oxymoron. Whether it was worthwhile or not, this is not bullying, it may e over-zealous pushback against authority, but it's not morally wrong.

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I completely agree that morally this is not wrong at all. I do however believe that this was nothing put a petty attempt to try to "show the man" that all the rules apply to everyone, which is sound in principle but in this case is a complete waste of time and resources just to make a pathetic stand on a useless issue. I doubt it is much of of a stretch to think that had this gentleman been in a situation where he had needed this officer the delay that finding a parking spot would have caused would have been unacceptable as well. There are just some people that no matter what you do you just can't make them happy.

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ElJefe1911 wrote:

I completely agree that morally this is not wrong at all. I do however believe that this was nothing put a petty attempt to try to "show the man" that all the rules apply to everyone, which is sound in principle but in this case is a complete waste of time and resources just to make a pathetic stand on a useless issue. I doubt it is much of of a stretch to think that had this gentleman been in a situation where he had needed this officer the delay that finding a parking spot would have caused would have been unacceptable as well. There are just some people that no matter what you do you just can't make them happy.

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Not morally wrong??? How the hell do you come to that conclusion? It sure isn't using any kind of logic. Call me petty when a guy sworn to uphold the law, violates the law because it is easier for him than doing the right thing. If that's moral then this country islost cause. FYI I can't think of anything more petty than a cop so lazy he breaks the law because it is easier. On top of that his elitist bosses want to make this kind of crap legal for cops only.

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Hey Bear. Since I don't know you from Adam I am going to assume that you are just suffering from some sort of disability instead of just being an ignorant jackass. If you go back and sound out all of the words that were typed on this thread you will put the words together and see that I was agreeing with the fact that the citizen that reported this travesty of justice was the person that was not morally wrong and not the act of the evil oppressor. Take a deep breath, check in with your Sylvan tutor and try rereading the thread before you jump my back next time.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Jeff

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ElJefe1911 wrote:

Hey Bear. Since I don't know you from Adam I am going to assume that you are just suffering from some sort of disability instead of just being an ignorant jackass. If you go back and sound out all of the words that were typed on this thread you will put the words together and see that I was agreeing with the fact that the citizen that reported this travesty of justice was the person that was not morally wrong and not the act of the evil oppressor. Take a deep breath, check in with your Sylvan tutor and try rereading the thread before you jump my back next time.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Jeff

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My only disabilities arephysical and the VA pays me for those the state doesn't. Yours of course is mental because there is no other way thatyou could take the position you have and be sane. I was reading just fine before you were borned, that is if you were.

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The LEO essentially got a parking ticket. He thought he was in the right and he fought it in court like so many others have. He lost, was found guilty and ordered to pay a fine. Happens to all sorts of people all the time. Very few of them ever go on to commit a more serious offense. I don't have a problem with any of this from the citizen complaint, to the officer fighting it in court because he thought he was not guilty, to the judge's decision. That is how the system is supposed works and how it is supposed to work.


Triple Tap wrote:

I think I would like to see a "Manditory Investigation Law" for any stolen weapon. I have here many times that the police dont even come out to talk to the owner. I wonder how hard it would be to get this on the books.

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I bet M1gunr agrees with you.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/13548-1.html

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Here is an excerpt from the Portland Tribune Newspaper:

"The city doesn’t plan to appeal the $35 ticket, but it does intend to rewrite city ordinances so that officers can legally park in certain no-parking zones, said Deputy City Attorney David Woboril.

“We've reached an agreement in principle between the Portland Police Bureau and the Portland Office of Transportation,” he said.
Though the two agencies have had an informal understanding over the years that officers wouldn’t be ticketed, Woboril said the bureau is sensitive to the criticism that its officers have been operating above the law.

The goal, he said, is to “make it very clear in the law so that officers know and that citizens can be informed of the legality of what officers are doing.”

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team one wrote:

Here is an excerpt from the Portland Tribune Newspaper:

"The city doesn’t plan to appeal the $35 ticket, but it does intend to rewrite city ordinances so that officers can legally park in certain no-parking zones, said Deputy City Attorney David Woboril.

“We've reached an agreement in principle between the Portland Police Bureau and the Portland Office of Transportation,” he said.
Though the two agencies have had an informal understanding over the years that officers wouldn’t be ticketed, Woboril said the bureau is sensitive to the criticism that its officers have been operating above the law.

The goal, he said, is to “make it very clear in the law so that officers know and that citizens can be informed of the legality of what officers are doing.”

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So even if there is no emergency to justify the cops doing something that is not proper, all they do is rewrite the law so that cops can be elitist along with the politicians and bureaucrats. This is a major indicator of what is wrong with this country. Even though it isn't rightthe powers that bewill make it right by writing a bad law.:X

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me thinks they are not learning their lesson. if anyone is familiar in how i would go about making a citizens citation for this i would appreciate it.

i see the same oinkers do this almost everyday, i took these friday. they are parked in front of a HAIR SALON and office building. this isn't a one time thing. the same cars are there several times a month. for hair appointments i would guess.

they aren't paying for parking, and they are parked in the yellow... both cars at the same time, and they also didn't even need to be in the yellow there was plenty of space for them. maybe they did it on purpose?

@#$% em

how does the city paying itself the 35 dollar ticket mean a damn thing?

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David. Car said it “Ignorance of the law is not an excuse”. That is what would be told of me if I had done the same and claimed I was only stopping for a moment to pick up a take out order.

Officials abusing and claiming its Ok only tells other’s in society it’s Ok, but the officials would quickly enforce it upon the citizen. I may be off track and a bit whacked on this but I see a growing number of service industry drivers doing the same. They park in non-designated, blocking handicapped, hydrants and parking in center turn lanes of busy road ways to make deliveries. Just the other day I saw a trucker park in the center turn lane to buy a cup of coffee at the local stand, on the other side of the road was a huge empty parking lot at the closed Food Pavilion, somewhere he got the impression it’s OK! Are people mirroring what they see and figure is must be OK?

My pops retired from the Police Force in 85, for as many years that he can remember officers would drive up to the back door of a Burger Chef, McDonalds and other establishments and receive free lunch (pure gratitude for service to the community) Later it was seen as un-registered gratuities by politicians and the department shut the practice down instructing officers to park in regular customer parking. Have they gone back to the olds ways, I think not. There are just some who believe they are above the law. “It’s easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission”. The “I’m special” mind set of today’s official’s only furthers the collapse of norms. Citizens WILL mimic, as do children (this must be the part were we revert back to our childhood days, helps with claiming ignorance). For some the practice of officials will be seen as distasteful, for others it’ll be seen as if he/she can than so can I.

Local governments or establishments allowing these practices today are providing gratuities. An officer is physical fit, RIGHT? They should have no problem running an extra few feet to the cruiser to avoid public scrutiny, and the spending of tax payer’s cash in damage control in defense of officer/department image or violations.

Done rambling! Just my thoughts and observations.