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johnnyb · Jul 25, 2008

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it is your job, you are a citizen. if you have proof this is happening, it is your job to put them in jail.

now you're quoting Wikipedia for "facts"

rodbender · Jul 25, 2008

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I think docwatson is a conspiracy theorist. He's using Wired magazine and slashdot.org. I wouldn't trust sucha rouge Internet source for any info. Don't you think that if G.W. was violating the Constitution, as much as the Dems hate him, he would have been impeached before the sun went down.

GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!

Jim675 · Jul 25, 2008

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At least the last several president's have clearly violated the Constitution. You think its hard to get the courts to take your word over a LEO? That's an absolute joke compared to going after a sitting president.

docwatson · Jul 25, 2008

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@the Texas Unabomber Wannabe

It seems you don't like - or understand technology - so I won't use it to argue with you. It's like naming a pig 'Einstein' - it's still a pig and no smarter for the experience.

I was referring to the scope, size, and degree of response of the US government; Pearl Harbor was a much closer analogy of the attack on 9/11 in regards to casualties and the response of the American people.

We seem to have thrown the baby out with the bathwater and then look at folks who say "WTF!?" and call them un-American or worse. The truth is the truth and we have an administration that has laid the groundwork for the next administration to utlize it in some significant, unforseen, and possibly dangerous ways.

docwatson · Jul 25, 2008

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johnnyb wrote:

it is your job, you are a citizen. if you have proof this is happening, it is your job to put them in jail.

now you're quoting Wikipedia for "facts"

Don't take my word for it - Google 'NSA Wiretapping' for yourself and educate WTF is going on outside of your mother's basement. :banghead:

@Texas Unabomber
Slashdot and Wired are 'rogue sources'? ROFL!!!! :what::lol:

Jim675 · Jul 25, 2008

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johnnyb, I have in the past applauded your obvious respect for the freedoms enshrined in our BoR.

The amazing gentlemen that authored and approved that document also recorded their thoughts on the subject of a citizen trusting their government.

If I may summarize, "Don't".

johnnyb · Jul 25, 2008

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docwatson wrote:

@the Texas Unabomber Wannabe

It seems you don't like - or understand technology - so I won't use it to argue with you. It's like naming a pig 'Einstein' - it's still a pig and no smarter for the experience.

I was referring to the scope, size, and degree of response of the US government; Pearl Harbor was a much closer analogy of the attack on 9/11 in regards to casualties and the response of the American people.

We seem to have thrown the baby out with the bathwater and then look at folks who say "WTF!?" and call them un-American or worse. The truth is the truth and we have an administration that has laid the groundwork for the next administration to utlize it in some significant, unforseen, and possibly dangerous ways.

you talk just like hoebama.

why don't you talk about specifics rather than broad vague bullshit you don't have to and can't back up in any way.

you don't understand "technology" if you're stupid enough to think its possible for the government to route "all traffic through san fran".

that is so idiotic it really doesn't deserve to even be discussed. the government doesn't control the infrastructure for one, and two everyone in the entire world would know. and if i did a trace route to this site i would see your mysterious san fran hop.

here is the trace rt to opencarry.org

no san fran hop

Code:

Tracing route to [url]www.opencarry.org[/url] [216.184.67.66]

over a maximum of 30 hops:

 1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1 

 2 * * * Request timed out.

 3 10 ms 9 ms 10 ms ge-1-23-ur03.beaverton.or.bverton.comcast.net [68.87.217.97] 

 4 9 ms 10 ms 10 ms te-9-1-ur04.beaverton.or.bverton.comcast.net [68.87.216.50] 

 5 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms te-8-4-ur05.beaverton.or.bverton.comcast.net [68.87.216.101] 

 6 21 ms 8 ms 13 ms te-9-1-ur06.beaverton.or.bverton.comcast.net [68.87.216.98] 

 7 10 ms 11 ms 12 ms te-7-4-ar01.troutdale.or.bverton.comcast.net [68.87.216.106] 

 8 15 ms 18 ms 17 ms COMCAST-IP.car1.Seattle1.Level3.net [4.79.104.110] 

 9 18 ms 16 ms 14 ms te-3-3.car1.Seattle1.Level3.net [4.79.104.109] 

10 23 ms 17 ms 18 ms ae-32-56.ebr2.Seattle1.Level3.net [4.68.105.190] 

11 46 ms 53 ms 53 ms ae-2.ebr2.Denver1.Level3.net [4.69.132.54] 

12 52 ms 53 ms 54 ms ae-1-100.ebr1.Denver1.Level3.net [4.69.132.37] 

13 64 ms 71 ms 73 ms ae-2.ebr2.Dallas1.Level3.net [4.69.132.106] 

14 65 ms 71 ms 72 ms ae-92-92.csw4.Dallas1.Level3.net [4.69.136.150] 

15 73 ms 71 ms 72 ms ae-93-93.ebr3.Dallas1.Level3.net [4.69.136.165] 

16 87 ms 90 ms 89 ms ae-7.ebr3.Atlanta2.Level3.net [4.69.134.22] 

17 95 ms 90 ms 90 ms ae-71-70.ebr1.Atlanta2.Level3.net [4.69.138.18] 

18 90 ms 89 ms 89 ms ae-4-4.car1.Charlotte1.Level3.net [4.69.132.161] 

19 90 ms 89 ms 89 ms ae-11-11.car2.Charlotte1.Level3.net [4.69.132.166] 

20 101 ms 101 ms 99 ms BRISTOL-VIR.car2.Charlotte1.Level3.net [4.71.126.22] 

21 101 ms 100 ms 101 ms interconnect-86-154.bvunet.net [216.184.86.154] 

Trace complete.

johnnyb · Jul 25, 2008

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Jim675 wrote:

johnnyb, I have in the past applauded your obvious respect for the freedoms enshrined in our BoR.

The amazing gentlemen that authored and approved that document also recorded their thoughts on the subject of a citizen trusting their government.

If I may summarize, "Don't".

i don't trust them, but I don't believe they are doing it.

at least if you're going to make allegations have some proof. especially since he claims to "know that its happening"

Jim675 · Jul 25, 2008

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Data can be copied, and the copy then consumed in a manner not apparent to you.

johnnyb · Jul 25, 2008

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Jim675 wrote:

Data can be copied, and the copy then consumed in a manner not apparent to you.

its not happening.

and it would be impossible to do with to all "data" flying around the "internet"

rodbender · Jul 25, 2008

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johnnyb wrote:

Jim675 wrote:

Data can be copied, and the copy then consumed in a manner not apparent to you.

Click to expand...

its not happening.

and it would be impossible to do with to all "data" flying around the "Internet"

I'm no techno geek, but it seems to me that if all Internet traffic was routed through any one city, there would be a crash heard around the world. That's one heck of a lot of data.

johnnyb · Jul 25, 2008

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rodbender wrote:

johnnyb wrote:

Jim675 wrote:

Data can be copied, and the copy then consumed in a manner not apparent to you.

Click to expand...

its not happening.

and it would be impossible to do with to all "data" flying around the "Internet"

Click to expand...

I'm no techno geek, but it seems to me that if all Internet traffic was routed through any one city, there would be a crash heard around the world. That's one heck of a lot of data.

yes its common sense. its impossible.

there isn't a wire big enough to even come close

Jim675 · Jul 25, 2008

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Look up "Carnivore Project". Think about the effort that Google (,Yahoo, and others) make to catalog every web page's current versions. All it takes is money. Your money. Via taxes or revenue from advertisements of the products you buy.

http://www.cas.sc.edu/socy/faculty/deflem/zgovernterror.html

This is public knowledge. Its not a secret "black ops" project.

johnnyb · Jul 25, 2008

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Jim675 wrote:

Look up "Carnivore Project". Think about the effort that Google (,Yahoo, and others) make to catalog every web page's current versions. All it takes is money. Your money. Via taxes or revenue from advertisements of the products you buy.

http://www.cas.sc.edu/socy/faculty/deflem/zgovernterror.html

This is public knowledge. Its not a secret "black ops" project.

i think carnivore is disgusting and very unconstitutional.

but it does not monitor "all data on the internet" they have to... in simple words. point it at something.

Jim675 · Jul 25, 2008

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No, a warrant has to be issued for a specific target's data to be withdrawn from an already existing pool of information.

Comp-tech · Jul 25, 2008

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Bush Moves Toward Martial Law
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=MOR20061029&articleId=3618

Mainstream media on the subject...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibpdwFjPMWE&feature=related

And...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jatpX6kuxHQ&feature=related

I'm sure this still won't qualify as proof for all the diehard Texans though....:banghead:

rodbender · Jul 26, 2008

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docwatson wrote:

You write like a Bush/Karl Rove fanboi, so I'll go straight to the heart of your arguments.

Thanks for the compliment.

colt45acp · Jul 29, 2008

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Being the board "newbie", I can take the heat from both sides on this issue.

From what I see there are valid arguments on both sides. As Pres. Regan said. "Trust, but verify!" --- We have all watched as the Fed. intrudes more and more on our lives. We tend to blame all politicians. -- Just not our politicians from our states!

Here is old news from 1999.

NSA PATENTS NEW TECHNOLOGY[/b]

TO MONITOR MILLIONS OF PHONE CALLS[/b]

By Suelette Dreyfus 11-17-99

The US National Security Agency has designed and patented a new technology that could aid it in spying on international telephone calls. The NSA patent, granted on 10 August, is for a system of automatic topic spotting and labelling of data. The patent officially confirms for the first time that the NSA has been working on ways of automatically analysing human speech.
The NSA's invention is intended automatically to sift through human speech transcripts in any language. The patent document specifically mentions "machine-transcribed speech" as a potential source.
Bruce Schneier, author of Applied Cryptography, a textbook on the science of keeping information secret, believes the NSA currently has the ability to use computers to transcribe voice conversations.
"One of the holy grails of the NSA is the ability automatically to search through voice traffic. They would have expended considerable effort on this capability, and this indicates it has been fruitful," he said.

http://members.fortunecity.com/groom51/nsapatent.html

I'msure the world of technology has come up with "lots" of improvements that are used on the www. The scary thing is where the imagination can take you. If you can think of it what makes you think someone else can't do the same?

We have gained a victory from the SC on their DC ruling. --- We have also seen the courtsuse "eminent domain"and confiscate private property so a developer could build apartments and shopping malls. http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/24/scotus.property/

I would argue that we need to learn from one another. Take what we learn and go to the people. Friends, neighbors, associates, anyone that will listen. In this election year we are faced with the lesser of two evils, once again.---But once again we must decide for ourselves which one is more evil. ---- You allhave a single issue that has united you. I'll bet that you have a lot more in common than just "open carry". ------- Like liberty? ----- You have at your disposal a weapon more powerful than the gun. ----- The "Vote".

:celebrate------------- :celebrate--------------------:celebrate----------------------------:celebrate--------------:celebrate

imperialism2024 · Jul 30, 2008

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docwatson, you're entirely correct in what you're saying. Unfortunately, there are those who either choose to deny what's happening, those who wish to cherry-pick the rights they believe as universal, and/or those who wish to cherry-pick which individuals possess such rights. See ACLU threads... I've had one member present a good, valid, and convincing argument against the efforts of the ACLU. The rest relied on the tried-and-not-so-true method of bashing any organization they choose to affiliate with "liberals", "Democrats", and other "others". Keep on fighting, and know that your arguments aren't falling on all deaf ears.

With that being said, the only way the United Nations would be able to enforce policies in the US domestically is from within. As it has been said, the UN is pretty much almost as incompetent as PennDOT, especially if put up against angry Americans. But get the newly-elected neo-con to declare that only terrorists need guns, and that private gun-owners are not true patriots. It can start with McCain's de facto gun registry ("closing the gun-show loophole") and work from there.

johnnyb · Jul 30, 2008

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imperialism2024 wrote:

docwatson, you're entirely correct in what you're saying. Unfortunately, there are those who either choose to deny what's happening, those who wish to cherry-pick the rights they believe as universal, and/or those who wish to cherry-pick which individuals possess such rights. See ACLU threads... I've had one member present a good, valid, and convincing argument against the efforts of the ACLU. The rest relied on the tried-and-not-so-true method of bashing any organization they choose to affiliate with "liberals", "Democrats", and other "others". Keep on fighting, and know that your arguments aren't falling on all deaf ears.

With that being said, the only way the United Nations would be able to enforce policies in the US domestically is from within. As it has been said, the UN is pretty much almost as incompetent as PennDOT, especially if put up against angry Americans. But get the newly-elected neo-con to declare that only terrorists need guns, and that private gun-owners are not true patriots. It can start with McCain's de facto gun registry ("closing the gun-show loophole") and work from there.

what about hoebama and every D in this country?

obama is on the wrong side of every issue. he is anti-freedom anti-bor in everyway.

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