Mixed Experience

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Well, first off I am new to the forums. I have started carrying my S&W simga .40 OC since I found a holster i like finally. I was going for a walk around 10pm 2 weeks ago with my g/f. was about 2 blocks from my house, heard a very loud verbal argument. Walked past the house, got the address called 911.. It was bad enough to call.. Im going to %*^&ing kill you type stuff. Dispatch said ok blah blah, took my info have a nice night. Im headed back to my house, here comes WCS. Hits me with the spotlight makes my S&W throws the SUV in park pulls his weapon and yells at me to get on the ground. I was like great. G/F is totally freaking out. I complied, 2 more officers roll up, laser on my head type thing. Hes like, "its not normal to see someone carrying a gun a night."To which I replied, its not illegal, theres no streetlights out here, do you blame me.Comes cuffs me, pulls my weapon out of its holster and stuffs me in the back of the car. The cuff my g/f.. for whatever reason. He then asks whats going on, I tell him I called the cops for the DV down the block. He was like oh. So, he runs me, my gun, and my g/f. The other cops takes a look at my gun, and tells me to clean it. Im sitting there thinking, i carry its EVERYWHERE. So, then everything comes back clean, they UNLOAD my gun, hand it back to me, and tell me to reload it when I get home. I told him OK.. thinking to myself, what good is an unloaded gun, and 14 rounds in my pocket going to do to me. Interesting enough, It just makes me carry more places. Can't let one incident with LE stop me from excercising my rights.

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Was this Henderson, North Vegas or Metro?

I would file a FOIA request to get the radio transcript and any report the officers filed as a result of your encounter. Once I had that, I would file a complaint with the department.

Barring something we don't know, this was an illegal detention. I haven't heard of this happening in Vegas yet, and it would be nice to nip it in the bud right now.

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Concur with Bob.

IMHO, that cop cannot show probable cause NOR articulate reasonable suspicion.

A letter to that cop's superiors would be a good thing.

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WCS= Washoe County Sheriff?

That didn't sound like a very good experience. Ihope they learnsomething from this.

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Sorry for not having my profile filled out last night.. It was late. Yes WCS is Washoe County Sheriff. For those of you in Reno, I live up in the back of the North Valleys and there isn't a single street light for like 4 miles. I swear one of the cops had never seen a .40 cal handgun before. A rookie cop showed up after I was in the back of the car... Started talking to the sarge I was talking to through the window, and asked if he needed someone to transport.. Automatically thinking I was going to jail. Then he asked where the gun was, sarge said its right there on the hood. Cop looks, no really where. Im sitting in the back and Im cracking up laughing cause its sitting right against the windshield in plain view. God I swear if a cop doesnt know that the hell a gun looks like, im worried. Also, Im curious to know if they have a right to unload my lawfully carried weapon and tell me I cant reload until I return to my residence. Anyways, got a few things to do around the house. Will check in later.

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IMO it was a unlawful order to direct you to wait until you got home to reload your handgun.

I would recommend including that in any complaint to the officer(s') superiors.

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First of all, welcome to the forum. Thank you for sharing your experience with us. It's always tough when law enforcment officers respond to a call. They see a man walking around with a holstered handgun. I think that it was extreme to make you get down on the ground. They could have handled it differently, without the Starsky and Hutch mentality.

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True they definately over reacted, but I told them I wasn't going to stop carrying... They gave me the BS about you NEED to get a permit blah blah blah.... I was like, If I only open carry no reason.. He said it causes less problems..... Load of crap. I carry everyday since that incident.

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I read stories on this forum from all states and places. Sometimes I think many of them are made up. If this really did happen why have you not already done something about it?

This was 2 weeks ago? It would not have taken me 2 hours to file some sort of report and been on the phone with a attorney and every news outlet within the state.

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Several violations:

1.) Illegal detention for you

2.) Illegal detention for your g/f

3.) Illegal seizure of property for taking your gun and "running" it

If not more.

The "lawful" order to only reload when you get home was in itself illegal since there is no law against carrying a loaded weapon, but since they (illegally) seized and subsequently unloaded your gun, it may have been brandishing should you have unholstered and reloaded in public.

Since the detention was illegal, the guns pointed at you constituted assault with a deadly weapon.

The detention and seizure are a direct violation of 18 USC Sec. 242. While this normally carries a maximum penalty of 1 yr in prison, when combined with the assault with deadly weapon, this carries a maximum of 10 yrs prison! This is no laughing matter. While I wouldn't want to see an "innocent" cop sent to prison, the 10 yr sentence reflects the seriousness of the violations against you, and certainly your girlfriend. In addition to the complaints you file with WSC, send a letter to:

[font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Assistant Attorney General
Civil Rights Division
Criminal Section
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, Northwest
Washington, DC 20530

I would also think that anything that became of the domestic violence you reported might also add to the effectiveness of your claim - that is to say that while violating your rights and victimizing you, the police were derelict in their duties to respond to the DV report, despite their close proximity to the situation.

On the other hand, the police may say they concluded you were the subject of the DV complaint. If you've ever watched COPS on TV, you probably know that many DV calls end in arrest of the suspect despite the objection of the caller. The police may have assumed you were abusing your GF and your OC firearm was a factor in intimidating her into compliance. A longshot no doubt. But without defending their actions, LE responded with very limited information as to the situation. And until you get the FOIA copies of the reports, radio comms, dash cameras, etc, you have no way of knowing whether another neighbor, reporting the same DV you called about, inaccurately reported you as the suspect.
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I agree with Tim.

However, I might take exception to the statement, "...may have been brandishing should you have unholstered and reloaded in public."

To be charged/convicted of brandishing, one would have to display the handgun in a threatening manner. Obviously, simply unholstering (in a safe place and manner) in order to load is not brandishing.

At http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/brandish "Brandish" is defined:

1 :to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly

2 :to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner

The LEO issued an UNLAWFUL order by directing to wait until arriving home to load. I'm no attorney at law, but it is that simple, IMHO!

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its not normal to see someone carrying a gun a night.

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really?

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yeahYeah wrote:

its not normal to see someone carrying a gun a night.

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really?

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Good question - really???

Should I discontinue my regular practice?

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heck no...

I carry when i walk in my hood, but not OC - i don't need my neighbors knowing i have guns and potentially more in my house.

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calmp9 wrote:

First of all, welcome to the forum.

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Yes I forgot, Welcome here.

I am also from the North Valleys.

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yeahYeah wrote:

heck no...

I carry when i walk in my hood, but not OC - i don't need my neighbors knowing i have guns and potentially more in my house.

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I agree with, and most certainly respect,your premise.

But I also figure "someone has to do it." You know, "a right unexercised is a right lost."

So, although I prefer CCW, I also frequently exercise OC.

Thanks for the response.

Wish I could get down to Vegas for one of the "meets" and do some chatting.

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What part of the North Valleys? Lemmon here

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Right on Tim!
I think at any incedent such as this we should all instantly contact the legal office of the NRA. It seem they are winning some cases and this would be more to the local point than some of the ones they are touting.

While I really don't give a big rat's a$$ about how they do it in WDC - I am sick and tired of some cop (or copette) telling me how to perform my life when he/she has the distinct characteristic of a "room temp" IQ.

Although I am NOT a litigious person - this sort of thing begs filing a suit against both the department AND the offcer indivually! At the time he was dispensing all these illegal commands he was accting outside the charter of his sworn office.

If we ignore these things they will never stop!

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y0da wrote:

What part of the North Valleys? Lemmon here

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Cold Springs.

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I have a question. Since you called the police to an address indicating that an argument with threats of "I'm going to kill you!" etc. were heard, and the arriving officer sees a male walking a female AWAY FROM the area with a gun in a holster, why is it UNreasonable for him to suspect that YOU were the couple who was fighting, and YOU were leading the woman off to some remote location in order to shoot her?

When you called the police, did you give them a detailed description of YOU and your girlfriend, telling them what you are wearing, etc., and telling them that you are OC, so that the officer would recognize YOU as the calling party, and not mistake you for the non-descript couple, one of which was potentially in iminent danger? Did you give them a detailed description of the people who were figting?

I believe that based on the information you gave the police, it is reasonable for the arriving officer to assume YOU were the one making the "I'm going to kill you" threats, and your girlfriend was the intended victim based on the information you provided. I would have made the same assumption until it was proven to be false.

From your post, you gave NO details or description of the fighting couple. You only gave an address. What is the officer supposed to conclude from this? Do you believe he should have IGNORED an armed male leading an unarmed female away from the address where the threats were reported? I don't think so.

I have called the police on occasion for this and that, and I always give the dispatcher a complete description of ME including clothing, hair color and length, height and weight, so that the responding officers DO NOT mistake me for the person(s) I have called them out to investigate. If I have the opportunity to do so, I'll put on something distinctive and easily recognizable, such as a bright orange baseball cap or something the dispatcher can relay to officers so they KNOW that *I* am the reporting party.

I don't mean to offend you, but based on your post, I think the officer was acting completely within the scope of his duties UP TO the point where he determined that you were not the fighting couple. At that point, he should have returned your weapon to you and allowed you to leave unencumbered, with a loaded weapon, as would be your right.