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Thread: Ryan Frederick - Time for Chesapeake PD to come clean

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Link:

    http://tidewaterliberty.wordpress.co...stions-review/

    From the Tidewater Liberty Blog:

    BOT:Unanswered Questions (Review)


    Some of the unanswered questions raised previously have been answered, not favorably, and others remain a mystery. New questions have arisen.

    We have learned that the confidential informant was the burglar (actually two), acting with the consent, and possibly at the direction of the police. This is a serious evasion of fourth Amendment protections.

    We still have no explanation for the choice, clearly made before the police ever left the station, to force entry to Fredericks home, whether he heard their demands to open the door and complied or not. An internal review has been made, but will be withheld from the public. The police have clearly taken the position that they need not explain their actions to the public.

    We still do not know on what evidence the prosecutor has based a charge of manufacturing marijuana.

    We still do not have an explanation for that .223 cartridge case, but we now have the added question of why the police altered evidence to hide a bullet hole.

    We do know that it was a bullet from Frederick’s gun that killed Det. Shivers and we know roughly how he came to be struck by it.

    We do not know why Frederick is charged with capital murder. Even if the testimony presented by the sole witness provided by the police is taken as absolute truth, it at most supports a charge of voluntary manslaughter, and even that is doubtful to survive a self defense assertion. Were he realistically charged, he would be out on bail. Is Frederick being pressured to take a deal, or is he simply being held without bail as a form of punishment, jail for a year whether found guilty or not?

    There is far too much we do not know, most of all, why the Chesapeake Police and the prosecutor are stonewalling the public on what really happened.

    The excuse of holding back information until trial does not wash. There is no legitimate public interest in shielding potential jurors from the truth. If a conviction cannot be had without keeping jurors in the dark about the objective facts of the case, then a conviction does not serve justice.

    This is the City of Chesapeake, in the Commonwealth of Virginia, in the United States of America. We do not have Secret Police answerable only to themselves. Our military and our police are subject to civilian control and review. We are owed the truth. And now

    **********************

    Lots of previous threads about this topic have been locked. Please try to keep this one civil (OK johnnyb?)

    I have been fairly neutral about the facts surrounding this case, not sure if the shooting was justified or excusable under the laws of the Commonwealth. The wall of silence is not what we expect from our public officials. Capital Murder? Does not seem possible. Overcharging the gun owner to keep him from getting bail? Seems to be the likely often used tactic of this Special District Attorney.

    I felt very sad for Det. Shivers. The ugly use of power in an attempt to thwart justice dishonors his memory.

    When do we stand up for other gun owners? When do we say stop violating our constitution? When do we refuse to allow justice to be perverted by those sworn to uphold justice?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    When is the trial date Thundar?

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    The trial date has not been set, but will be no sooner than late January, more likely mid February, so Frederick will have been in jail over a year even if found not guilty.


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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Don Tabor wrote:
    The trial date has not been set, but will be no sooner than late January, more likely mid February, so Frederick will have been in jail over a year even if found not guilty.
    If found not guilty can't he sue for compensation?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Neplusultra wrote:
    Don Tabor wrote:
    The trial date has not been set, but will be no sooner than late January, more likely mid February, so Frederick will have been in jail over a year even if found not guilty.
    If found not guilty can't he sue for compensation?
    Yes, you can always sue. Winning is another thing. Immunity is a tough thing to overcome.

    He can also ask the General Assembly for compensation.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Well written article and I especially liked the questions posed at the link provided.

    I can't help think that there is a great injustice being done.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Thundar wrote:

    When do we stand up for other gun owners? When do we say stop violating our constitution? When do we refuse to allow justice to be perverted by those sworn to uphold justice?
    Do you have any suggestions? I wish there were something I could do for this kid but, what? I would like to tell him to stay strong and NEVER take a deal. Chesapeake would like to wash their hands of this and if Ryan takes a deal it all goes away. What is there for us to do?

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    Given the situation, I think I would've done the same thing. I watch COPS' episodes & SWAT all the time and can't help but wonder what I would do if someone came barging/crashing through my door, in a violent matter that simulates a home invasion, when I'm snoozing... Since I've never been in that situation, I can only fathom, but I can easily understand his reaction and do not condemn him no matter who was hit, nor what was lost.


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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    JeffersonDavis wrote:
    Thundar wrote:

    When do we stand up for other gun owners? When do we say stop violating our constitution? When do we refuse to allow justice to be perverted by those sworn to uphold justice?
    Do you have any suggestions? I wish there were something I could do for this kid but, what? I would like to tell him to stay strong and NEVER take a deal. Chesapeake would like to wash their hands of this and if Ryan takes a deal it all goes away. What is there for us to do?
    I am concerned at two levels,

    1. The injustice that has happened; and

    2. the potential for more rabbit tricks at trial.

    What can we do?

    First, spread the word. The most effective weapon against government abuse is public knowledge. Blogging is very effective. Your message must be clear, simple and hate free. Example - Dr. Tabors simple questions are much more effective than anti police rhetoric.

    Second, make your concerns known to the Chesapeake City Council and your state legislators. As k for answers and action. Demand to know why CPD has had multiple botched home assaults, demand to know the preliminary results of the independent review of police procedures, demand to know why there is not a civilian review board to keep an eye on the Chesapeake PD. Demand answers to all of the very uncomfortable questions as you can.

    Third, Go to the Chesapeake City Council meetings to demand answers when your efforts in #2 are ignored.

    Fourth, Use the Freedom of Information Act to gain access to all of the information that you can. Much of what you request will be denied, but if many people ask for somewhat differentinformation with somewhat different requests, then a mosaic can start to be assembled. Share your results so that the mosaic can be built.

    Fifth, plan a FIJA campaign for Chesapeake before the trial. The Fully Informed Jury Association strikes fear into the hearts of prosecutors that specialize in pulling rabbits out of hats. It breaks juries from the false bonds that judges and prosecutors try to impose upon them and ensures that juries become the true triers of the law as well as facts, ensuring just verdicts.

    Sixth, Plan a truth campaign outside of Chesapeake Circuit Court during the Jury selection process for the trial. Hand out a Japanese maple leaf and a spent .223 cartridge to persons before they enter the circuit court building with pertinent questions - Why did Chesapeake PD assault a home for growing this? and how did a spent CPD bullet casing end up in the defendants home?

    Seventh, come with more ideas. Your creativity here is extremely important. For example - if while passing out the fliers in # 6 above we also collect for a memorial fund for Detective Shivers family we do more good and our message is much more powerful.

    Public exposure, creativity, assertiveness and persistence are the advocacy tools needed to stop this perversion of justice.

    Live free or die,

    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Thundar wrote:
    JeffersonDavis wrote:
    Thundar wrote:

    When do we stand up for other gun owners? When do we say stop violating our constitution? When do we refuse to allow justice to be perverted by those sworn to uphold justice?
    Do you have any suggestions? I wish there were something I could do for this kid but, what? I would like to tell him to stay strong and NEVER take a deal. Chesapeake would like to wash their hands of this and if Ryan takes a deal it all goes away. What is there for us to do?
    I am concerned at two levels,

    1. The injustice that has happened; and

    2. the potential for more rabbit tricks at trial.

    What can we do?

    First, spread the word. The most effective weapon against government abuse is public knowledge. Blogging is very effective. Your message must be clear, simple and hate free. Example - Dr. Tabors simple questions are much more effective than anti police rhetoric.

    Second, make your concerns known to the Chesapeake City Council and your state legislators. As k for answers and action. Demand to know why CPD has had multiple botched home assaults, demand to know the preliminary results of the independent review of police procedures, demand to know why there is not a civilian review board to keep an eye on the Chesapeake PD. Demand answers to all of the very uncomfortable questions as you can.

    Third, Go to the Chesapeake City Council meetings to demand answers when your efforts in #2 are ignored.

    Fourth, Use the Freedom of Information Act to gain access to all of the information that you can. Much of what you request will be denied, but if many people ask for somewhat differentinformation with somewhat different requests, then a mosaic can start to be assembled. Share your results so that the mosaic can be built.

    Fifth, plan a FIJA campaign for Chesapeake before the trial. The Fully Informed Jury Association strikes fear into the hearts of prosecutors that specialize in pulling rabbits out of hats. It breaks juries from the false bonds that judges and prosecutors try to impose upon them and ensures that juries become the true triers of the law as well as facts, ensuring just verdicts.

    Sixth, Plan a truth campaign outside of Chesapeake Circuit Court during the Jury selection process for the trial. Hand out a Japanese maple leaf and a spent .223 cartridge to persons before they enter the circuit court building with pertinent questions - Why did Chesapeake PD assault a home for growing this? and how did a spent CPD bullet casing end up in the defendants home?

    Seventh, come with more ideas. Your creativity here is extremely important. For example - if while passing out the fliers in # 6 above we also collect for a memorial fund for Detective Shivers family we do more good and our message is much more powerful.

    Public exposure, creativity, assertiveness and persistence are the advocacy tools needed to stop this perversion of justice.

    Live free or die,

    Thundar
    That sounds good. One problem I see is that we still haven't heard the other side as to the allegations of manufacturing marijuana, or of the relation of the break-in and police involvement. I will be the loudest voice in saying this thing stinks to high heaven but, we don't know much of Ryan's side in his own words about the latest revelations. We are not likely to hear anymore from either side until the trial for obvious reasons, and anything we do could undermine his defence. I think we are in a wait and see situation for now but I might be wrong. That being said, I am willing to help in anywayI can to find out the TRUTH. You have some good ideas, I don't have many so you are in charge. I'm in, lets roll.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    The Truth. I think that is really the issue here. The LE handling of this reeks of cover-up and it appears the DA is abusing authority with the charges brought. But that doesn't mean there is a cover-up or abuse. But at some point perception becomes reality for the masses. I think this is a case for all sides of "the truth shall set you free."
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    When Ken Cuccinelli talked to 2nd amendment civil rights supporters at the Heller Victory Party last Saturday I asked him about the Ryan Frederick Case. I asked him his position on "no-knock" search warrants.

    I told him that what was happening toFrederick was an injustice and that he (Cuccinelli) should look into it. I wanted to hear his legal opinion on the matter.

    I like Cuccinelli and I believe the VCDL along with the OCDO community will give him a ringing endorsement, but I think it is very important that he have a very specific opinion on this case. I want to hear it. If he is running for the position to be Virginia's top cop I do not think it is unreasonable that he give a legal opinion on a hot legal issue in the commonwealth.

    I think all of you would agree.

    I plan on seeing Cuccinelli again, and I will ask him again.
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    The Tidewater Libertarian Party will be voting at our August business meeting (16th) on making a formal request to the Chesapeake City Council to appoint a review board to investigate the matter. We delayed the vote from this month to allow time for our Chief Council, Steve Merrill, to consult with Frederick's attorney to be sure we will not be working at cross purposes.

    If, as I expect, we go forward with that request, I will post a notice at TidewaterLiberty.com on when I will present the request to the City Council. It would be of great help to have a good citizen turnout at that meeting to domeonstrate wide public interest.

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    Keep us informed and I will be there.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    I'll keep checkingTidewater Liberty.com. to get the city council date.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Thanks.

    I invite you to read the BOT Review articles at TidewaterLiberty.com on the Warrant, the Raid, the Evidence, and the Charge to refresh yourselves on what we know and don't know at this point. I have tried to update and condense the earlier information on the case in that series.

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    Thundar wrote:
    SNIP I am concerned at two levels,

    1. The injustice that has happened; and

    2. the potential for more rabbit tricks at trial.

    Want to know how it has come to passthat Frederick or any of us could be railroaded like this?

    I just finished reading the article linked below. Trust me for just one minute when I say YOU NEED TO READ THIS ARTICLE.

    There is no one quote that really conveys the picture, but let me try just this one.

    A "runaway" grand jury, loosely defined as a grand jury which resists the accusatory choices of a government prosecutor, has been virtually eliminated by modern criminal procedure. Today's "runaway" grand jury is in fact the common law grand jury of the past. Prior to the emergence of governmental prosecution as the standard model of American criminal justice, all grand juries were in fact "runaways," according to the definition of modern times; they operated as completely independent, self-directing bodies of inquisitors, with power to pursue unlawful conduct to its very source, including the government itself.[7]

    After I read the article, I realized there was a connection to Frederick's situation. Re-reading this thread and scanning a news article before posting, I saw several connections.

    Please read the article. You won't believe how applicable it is. And how well it explains why this is happening to Frederick instead of being stopped in its tracks.

    http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/runaway.htm
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    SNIP I am concerned at two levels,

    1. The injustice that has happened; and

    2. the potential for more rabbit tricks at trial.

    Want to know how it has come to passthat Frederick or any of us could be railroaded like this?

    I just finished reading the article linked below. Trust me for just one minute when I say YOU NEED TO READ THIS ARTICLE.

    There is no one quote that really conveys the picture, but let me try just this one.

    A "runaway" grand jury, loosely defined as a grand jury which resists the accusatory choices of a government prosecutor, has been virtually eliminated by modern criminal procedure. Today's "runaway" grand jury is in fact the common law grand jury of the past. Prior to the emergence of governmental prosecution as the standard model of American criminal justice, all grand juries were in fact "runaways," according to the definition of modern times; they operated as completely independent, self-directing bodies of inquisitors, with power to pursue unlawful conduct to its very source, including the government itself.[7]

    After I read the article, I realized there was a connection to Frederick's situation. Re-reading this thread and scanning a news article before posting, I saw several connections.

    Please read the article. You won't believe how applicable it is. And how well it explains why this is happening to Frederick instead of being stopped in its tracks.

    http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/runaway.htm
    I served on a Federal Grand Jury in 1998/1999. We were told that we were the check on the abuse of power by the state to falsely indict. During our term, we heard about three dozen cases, brought by different AUSAs, all of whom presented what they said were the "facts", corroborated by testimony of both LEOs and codefendants (some of whom were already convicted/sentenced).

    On more than one occasion, we tore holes in the witness's testimony because we either thought s/he was lying, or because we felt that the testimony was slanted to favor an indictment. The only testimony we heard that contradicted any prosecution witness was from the accused. The accused doesn't get to confront/rebut any proescution witness/testimony. Conflicts are resolved by direct questions of witnesses/accused by the jury members and during debate.

    In at least one case, during a break, the AUSA asked us how we felt about the accused's testimony. At that point in the proceedings, we had mixed feelings. She flat stated that she thought the individual "...was a lying piece of $hit..."

    The threshold of evidence for a grand jury to indict is considerably lower than that required for a trial jury to convict (and only requires a majority vote), so sometimes people get indicted to let a trial jury decide because then "all the evidence will come out". Needless to say, we didn't indict everyone, and in some cases, the AUSA wasn't happy with our cross-examination and/or our finding.

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