OCd into Taylorsville PD

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Hi! I'm "new" to this site, though I've been lurking around for months now, dropping by to read only every month or so. I'm a very active member over on the sister-forum, http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com, so I'm sure some of you will recognize me. I have no intention of becoming highly active here but that's only b/c I'm a CC'er not an OC'er. Now, that being said, I love OC'ing and have been inclined to occasionally OC though I haven't yet. I firmly support OC'ing when done with an "ambassador" mind-set and have posted much support of OC'ing over at UCC. In fact, while I consider CC'ing to carry a political message, I give much more credit (and THANKS!) to you guys that OC since it makes the message that much stronger. So, THANK YOU TO ALL YOU GUYS FOR YOUR BRAVERY -- it helps to maintain MY 2A rights when YOU OC, and I love that! (please, I just hope we all remember to do it with an "ambassador" mentality -- we're trying to CONVERT, not offend).


OK, anyways, that was just a brief intro.



In regards to the thread... I'm not condemning the actions of the OP. Hardly. But I'm pretty sure what he did was illegal and he just got very lucky that all the LEO's there must've just thought he was one of them. The Taylorsville PD is part of the courthouse and at the entrance they have clear signage indicating that entering with firearms is prohibited.

Now, I could be wrong... this is just how I understand the law. Please don't crucify me as I'm not targeting this as an anti-OC'er or anything else like that... just trying to save someone some grief... if I'm wrong, please just explain to me why I am wrong... I refer to the following Utah Code: http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_08_031101.htm

[font="Arial,Helvetica"] 76-8-311.1. Secure areas -- Items prohibited -- Penalty.
(2) (a) A person in charge of a...law enforcement... facility may establish secure areas within the facility and may prohibit or control by rule any firearm...
(3) At least one notice shall be prominently displayed at each entrance...[/font]

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[font="Arial,Helvetica"]

Granted, from what I've seen when I'm there I think they are ignoring (and thus violating) this portion of the law:

(4) (a) Provisions shall be made to provide a secure weapons storage area so that persons entering the secure area may store their weapons prior to entering the secure area.

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But somehow I don't think a judge or LEO would consider that justification for packing inside the Taylorsville PD.

Again, I could be wrong... but from my reading of the law, I think packing inside the Taylorsville PD to be a very bad idea [/font]

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Hey bane! Welcome to the non-dark side.

I have carried into a few police stations, city buildings, and such that also contain a courthouse. I have never been hassled for this. Usually, the secure area does not begin until you get near the court room. Kinda like the airport... I open carry there, but not past the security checkpoint.

Now there are some buildings that have been designated as nothing but a courthouse, such as the Utah County Court in Provo. The metal detectors are installed right at the entrance, so the entire building is off limits to carry.

So, in my opinion, these multipurpose buildings are fair game until you reach a security checkpoint. However, that does not mean I am right, maybe just lucky. I will make a phone call to Mitch Vilos, and get his opinion on this subject.

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Hey, SGT, thanks for the welcome!


I think in general, you are correct. I replied (probably not quite clearly enough) to this thread b/c the TVPD is also my PD and I have been there several times and their signs are at the very entrance to the building... which, according to the law I cite, they are allowed to regulate because it is a law enforcement area (not only a court). In other words, my throwing in the fact that it contains a court is really irrelevant I think (sorry I did, it just muddied the water). The real fact, as I see it, is that if you remove the court from the building and it were nothing BUT a PD, they can still prohibit firearms in there... which TVPD has clearly done with their sign at the entrance.

That is, unless I am mis-understanding the law I cited... ???

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The Tville city offices are multi use. If you enter through the main doors there is a reception desk and stairwell directly in front of you. You have to walk left around the stairwell then turn right and you can see the security checkpoint for the courtroom. Guns are obvioiusly off limits there. The police department in in the basement and, although you can enter from the main floor using the elevator, the best access is from a door to the left of and bellow the main entrance.

There is no prohibition on carrying in other parts of the building.

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bane wrote:

Now, I could be wrong... this is just how I understand the law. Please don't crucify me as I'm not targeting this as an anti-OC'er or anything else like that... just trying to save someone some grief... if I'm wrong, please just explain to me why I am wrong... I refer to the following Utah Code: http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_08_031101.htm

[font="Arial,Helvetica"] 76-8-311.1. Secure areas -- Items prohibited -- Penalty.
(2) (a) A person in charge of a...law enforcement... facility may establish secure areas within the facility and may prohibit or control by rule any firearm...
(3) At least one notice shall be prominently displayed at each entrance...[/font]

Click to expand...

[font="Arial,Helvetica"]

Granted, from what I've seen when I'm there I think they are ignoring (and thus violating) this portion of the law:

(4) (a) Provisions shall be made to provide a secure weapons storage area so that persons entering the secure area may store their weapons prior to entering the secure area.

Click to expand...

[/font]

Click to expand...

Here is how I read it. The law states that they may establish a secure area within the facility. It does not say they may designate the entire building as secure. They should also provide storage, but some places refuse to.

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Oh, I see your point. Hmmm... I guess further clarification is necessary.

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One line that makes me think you can carry in to the public area of a PD any time you want...

76-8-311.1. Secure areas -- Items prohibited -- Penalty.

(1) In addition to the definitions in Section 76-10-501, as used in this section:
(a) "Correctional facility" has the same meaning as defined in Section 76-8-311.3.
(b) "Explosive" has the same meaning as defined for "explosive, chemical, or incendiary device" defined in Section 76-10-306.
(c) "Law enforcement facility" means a facility which is owned, leased, or operated by a law enforcement agency.
(d) "Mental health facility" has the same meaning as defined in Section 62A-15-602.
(e) (i) "Secure area" means any area into which certain persons are restricted from transporting any firearm, ammunition, dangerous weapon, or explosive.
(ii) A "secure area" may not include any area normally accessible to the public.
(2) (a) A person in charge of a correctional, law enforcement, or mental health facility may establish secure areas within the facility and may prohibit or control by rule any firearm, ammunition, dangerous weapon, or explosive.
(b) Subsections (2)(a), (3), (4), (5), and (6) apply to higher education secure area hearing rooms referred to in Subsections 53B-3-103(2)(a)(ii) and (b).
(3) At least one notice shall be prominently displayed at each entrance to an area in which a firearm, ammunition, dangerous weapon, or explosive is restricted.
(4) (a) Provisions shall be made to provide a secure weapons storage area so that persons entering the secure area may store their weapons prior to entering the secure area.
(b) The entity operating the facility shall be responsible for weapons while they are stored in the storage area.
(5) It is a defense to any prosecution under this section that the accused, in committing the act made criminal by this section, acted in conformity with the facility's rule or policy established pursuant to this section.
(6) (a) Any person who knowingly or intentionally transports into a secure area of a facility any firearm, ammunition, or dangerous weapon is guilty of a third degree felony.
(b) Any person violates Section 76-10-306 who knowingly or intentionally transports, possesses, distributes, or sells any explosive in a secure area of a facility.

Amended by Chapter 8, 2002 Special Session 5

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Good find Jared. I think that just about sums it up.

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How I missed that is anyone's guess... I really thought I had read the statute thoroughly enough prior to citing it but it's obvious I missed that line -- an all-important one, to boot.

So I guess perhaps the sign on the front door at the Taylorsville City Building is put there as the easiest general notification due to the attached courtroom inside but one that perhaps they don't try to enforce unless you attempt to go beyond the metal detectors.

Which is good to know. Maybe one day I'll get up the courage to ask on the TVPD about it -- they drink coffee at the same shop I do most mornings.

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bane wrote:

Hi! I'm "new" to this site....

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Welcome :monkey

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brokenarrows wrote:

gThis is strange. So you can open carry.....good for you! how you all act and post is shocking!

Strange as it is your behavior is going to cause alarm to the public. LEO will be notified and contact will be made.

I am surprised how many one this forum act like kids stealing from a cookie jar. MAY I suggest that resposible behavior will preserve the right to carry and possess handgun much more than the irresposnible dribble i have found on this and many other post/ forums.

The facts are that many LEO's and citizens do not know the laws regarding open carry.

I do not want to point fingers at just this post or topic, I just hope that no one here has an INCIDENT that gains attention in a negative way that diminishes the rights that we enjoy in the long run.

The public is mosty naive and afraid of guns. This is a result of tragedy and irresposibility.

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We got it that you don't like what we post here... If you would like to have a discussion, please post a new thread and we'll chat. It does no good to re-post the same post in multiple threads without direct relation to what the thread is about.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic....#p230938

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Don't feed the troll.

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For the sake of education, the purpose of the OP was not any form of bragging about "look what I can do." The whole purpose was to show how much of a non-issue OC was.

A motorcycle is my primary means of transportation so I frequently see peoples reactions when I OC down the streets. When you discount the majority who couldn't see a semi-truck driving next to them let alone a gun on a bike, I generally get two reactions. Most grin and nod a hello while a few play ostrich and pretend they didn't see it. One of my reasons for OC is to illustrate to those ostriches that a gun on the street did not kill anyone today; all in an effort to counter the false image provided by TV and the movies.