OC in bars?

nikon1123 · Jul 26, 2008

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So, I'm doing some snooping around, and I find this:

MCL 750.234d(1) lists the places where firearms possession is not allowed. It includes, in part:

(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan Liquor Control Act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

However, according to the Michigan Legislature website, MCL 436.1 - 436.58 were repealed in 1998, when the new Michigan Liquor Control Code was created (see http://www.legislature.mi.gov, search for Michigan Liquor Control Act). Since MCL 750.234d wasn't amended, is OC legal in bars?

Edit: Capitalization.

SmallWhiteBox · Jul 27, 2008

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Yes, it is legal to OC in a bar as long as you have a CPL. Without a CPL, it is illegal.

THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT) Act 328 of 1931 750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty. Sec. 234d. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
(b) A church or other house of religious worship.
(c) A court.
(d) A theatre.
(e) A sports arena.
(f) A day care center.
(g) A hospital.
(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
(b) A peace officer.
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

nikon1123 · Jul 27, 2008

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But there are no longer any establishments licensed under the Michigan Liquor Control Act...

ghostrider · Jul 27, 2008

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This is an interesting point but, are you sure it was all repealed? I did an MCL search for Michigan Liquor Control Act of 1998, and it looks like it just uses MCL 436. I'd have to read the whole thing to be sure, but I've yet to see anything mentioning repeal.

SmallWhiteBox · Jul 27, 2008

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Michigan site is going really slow for me so I cannot lookup the codes, but if the 1933 act was repealed, then bars would still be permitted.

I will try and lookup the acts once the site stops timing out for me.

nikon1123 · Jul 27, 2008

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ghostrider · Jul 27, 2008

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nikon1123 wrote: Did you click on any of those links? If you click on "Act 58 of 1998", it goes straight to another list of links (codes within Act 58) that in turn go to MCL 436. Like I said, I haven't read the whole thing yet, but it looks like they just revised.

I'm not saying your wrong, just that I don't understand it. I do see where it says "repealed", but what does the new act say, that it is using the old act in it's wording?

nikon1123 · Jul 27, 2008

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But the new act starts at MCL 436.1101 and goes through 436.2303. Further, the short title is the "Michigan Liquor Control Code of 1998", which is not the "Michigan Liquor Control Act".

ghostrider · Jul 27, 2008

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nikon1123 wrote:

But the new act starts at MCL 436.1101 and goes through 436.2303. Further, the short title is the "Michigan Liquor Control Code of 1998", which is not the "Michigan Liquor Control Act".

Okay, I now see what your saying. Very interesting.

abovee96 · Jul 27, 2008

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So, If it is illegal to open carry in a bar, is it also illegal to open carry in a store that has a liquor license. Most of the grocery stores and gas stations in my area carry beer and liquor. Just trying to stay outta trouble.

ghostrider · Jul 27, 2008

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abovee96 wrote:

So, If it is illegal to open carry in a bar, is it also illegal to open carry in a store that has a liquor license. Most of the grocery stores and gas stations in my area carry beer and liquor. Just trying to stay outta trouble.

It's legal to carry in places that don't sell liquor for consumption.

warlockmatized · Jul 27, 2008

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abovee96 wrote:

So, If it is illegal to open carry in a bar, is it also illegal to open carry in a store that has a liquor license. Most of the grocery stores and gas stations in my area carry beer and liquor. Just trying to stay outta trouble.

I believe the law pertains to establishments where alcohol is consumed on the premises.

azebolsky · Jul 27, 2008

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Also, as I have proven today, and talked with a couple friends, if it's somewhere like Applebee's or a restaurant that serves alcohol or has a "bar" area, you're allowed to OC in the non-bar area, unless you have a current CPL.

*S*

daewoomofo · Jul 28, 2008

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when i got my cpli was told that the law states thta you can carry in a place that servers alcohol, as long as it doesnt account for more than (please dont quote me on this as i have a BAD memory) more than 25% (maybe 50%) of their revenue.

ghostrider · Jul 28, 2008

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daewoomofo wrote:

when i got my cpli was told that the law states thta you can carry in a place that servers alcohol, as long as it doesnt account for more than (please dont quote me on this as i have a BAD memory) more than 25% (maybe 50%) of their revenue.

Have you read the information in the thread titled "MICHIGAN OPEN CARRY INFO HERE"? Most of this information is in that thread, and it was made a sticky so that it would be easily available to people new to OC.

MCL 750.234d

750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty. Sec. 234d. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following: (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution. (b) A church or other house of religious worship. (c) A court. (d) A theatre. (e) A sports arena. (f) A day care center. (g) A hospital. (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws. (2) This section does not apply to any of the following: (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity. (b) A peace officer. (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon. (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity. (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

Emphasis mine.

The concealed weapons law states that people can’t conceal carry into:

(d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision shall not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that “This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons”. The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but shall not be required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.

OC is legal with a CPL.

Venator · Jul 28, 2008

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daewoomofo wrote:

when i got my cpli was told that the law states thta you can carry in a place that servers alcohol, as long as it doesnt account for more than (please dont quote me on this as i have a BAD memory) more than 25% (maybe 50%) of their revenue.

The Michigan law doesn't specify the amount, it just states the majority of its income. Majority can be assumed to be 51%. Most restaurants that sell liquor make more money from food then the booze, so places like Applebeesare okay.

If you do not have a CPL you can not have a weapon in any place that has a liquor license. Which would be a restaurant like Applebees. You could OC without a CPL in a place like that if you have the owners permission.

ghostrider · Jul 28, 2008

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Venator wrote:

daewoomofo wrote:

when i got my cpli was told that the law states thta you can carry in a place that servers alcohol, as long as it doesnt account for more than (please dont quote me on this as i have a BAD memory) more than 25% (maybe 50%) of their revenue.

Click to expand...

The Michigan law doesn't specify the amount, it just states the majority of its income. Majority can be assumed to be 51%. Most restaurants that sell liquor make more money from food then the booze, so places like Applebeesare okay.

If you do not have a CPL you can not have a weapon in any place that has a liquor license. Which would be a restaurant like Applebees. You could OC without a CPL in a place like that if you have the owners permission.

Okay, now I'm confused. I've been carrying a printout of this law around for months. Where does it say you have to have the owners permission? I realize that they can ask you to leave, but had not heard of this until now.

Edited to add:
Nevermind, I just went back and reread what you wrote. I initially missed the part about it being without a CPL.

Venator · Jul 28, 2008

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ghostrider wrote:

Venator wrote:

daewoomofo wrote:

when i got my cpli was told that the law states thta you can carry in a place that servers alcohol, as long as it doesnt account for more than (please dont quote me on this as i have a BAD memory) more than 25% (maybe 50%) of their revenue.

Click to expand...

The Michigan law doesn't specify the amount, it just states the majority of its income. Majority can be assumed to be 51%. Most restaurants that sell liquor make more money from food then the booze, so places like Applebeesare okay.

If you do not have a CPL you can not have a weapon in any place that has a liquor license. Which would be a restaurant like Applebees. You could OC without a CPL in a place like that if you have the owners permission.

Click to expand...

Okay, now I'm confused. I've been carrying a printout of this law around for months. Where does it say you have to have the owners permission? I realize that they can ask you to leave, but had not heard of this until now.

Edited to add:
Nevermind, I just went back and reread what you wrote. I initially missed the part about it being without a CPL.

If you do NOT have a CPL you can not have a firearm in a bar or any of the places listed in 234dwithout the permission of the owner. See exception (d) below.

If you have a CPL you can OC in any of the places banned in MCL 750. Sec.234d. So you are right, with a CPL you don't need permission, but all those places are private and they can apply a gun ban so you kinda do.

(1)[/b] Sec. 234d (1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

b) A church or other house of religious worship.

c) A court.

d) A theatre.

e) A sports arena.

f) A day care center.

g) A hospital.

h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act.

(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession

of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

b) A peace officer.

c) [/b]A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon[/b].[/b]

d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

nikon1123 · Jul 28, 2008

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But Venator, how does the prohibition on carrying in bars without a CPL hold, given that the law was repealed (see original post)?

Venator · Jul 28, 2008

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nikon1123 wrote:

But Venator, how does the prohibition on carrying in bars without a CPL hold, given that the law was repealed (see original post)?

I know, but until I get more information I'm not going to argue whether the old restrictions are in force or not. I NEED MORE DATA......:lol:

OC in bars?

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