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California Unloaded Open Carry - Take a break NOW (please)

CaliforniaCarry

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
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49
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Santa Clarita, California, USA
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If Hoffman, Cato, ConditionThree, and CA_Libertarian are on board, then so am I. The really convincing thing is that CA_Libertarian has hopped on the "postpone OC" bandwagon. He seemed to be strongly against the idea at first, but since he's changed his mind, so have I. I admittedly don't OC everywhere, but I do it enough to potentially get noticed by the police cars that constantly crawl my neighborhood.

If a series of court decisions over the next few months can bring constitutionally protected loaded OC (as seems genuinely possible) to my hip, then I'm all for doing almost whatever it takes to get there. Shall-issue CCW will hopefully fall in place shortly thereafter :D We might actually have gun rights that are recognized in CA.
 

cato

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We've alreadyshown that our interpretation of 12031 is correct. By UOCing now we gain nothing substantial legislatively or constitutionally.and we have no tools yet to removethis law and solve the problems is causes.

What we have done in CA over the last several years is demonstrate that UOC can be accepted or a least acknowledged as legal by Leos (San Diego, Sacramento, Turlockand others). What we have demonstrated is that people, by a huge percentage,do NOT over react to the peaceful open carry of a holstered defensive sidearm in Ca. What we have done is shown the way to many who would rather CC, but now accept, that support or OC as the protected 2nd A. right(soon),is perhaps the most direct method to get what they want.

Now is the time to gird our armor and get ready for the next fight. That will happen after incorporation. And I suspect the numbers who flock to our ranks, encouraged by key influential groups and individuals within certain state level groups, will be our reward for patience at this time.

If one is concerned for one's safety, following PC 12026.1(a)using a locked briefcase, fanny back, or Bagmaster (TM)belt packis aviable option.
 

Flyer22

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Jun 26, 2008
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Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
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PubliusCA wrote:
Lonnie Wilson wrote:
UOC will get the Legislature's attention probably next year, however by the time it passes the judges panel in Nordyke will incorporate the 2nd, which makes it highly likely that a federal lawsuit challenging a new full out open carry ban will have a preliminary injunction.
[snip] but there is also plenty of precedent saying that only the U.S. Supreme Court can overturn a U.S. Supreme Court decision.
It may seem like a small point, but only a constitutional amendment can overturn a Supreme Court decision. The Supreme Court can, and does, reverse itself.
 

prcE6

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Californian wrote:
Are you guys discouraging all open carry? I'd still like to carry at my residence and on my prop, but I'd like to help in our cause, so let me know.

Welcome... and to answer your question, this is still completely fine. There's no real danger of causing public panic or LEO contact (I'm assuming here).

It's the open carrying in public that we are restraining from.
 

Prophet

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Feb 29, 2008
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Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
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While not a Californian I do have business from time to time on the left coast and have OC'd while doing it. If i find my way out there in August I will respect your wishes. Hopefully it will lead to something fruitful. :celebrate (get it...fruitful...dancing banana...its a pun)
 

PubliusCA

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Flyer22 wrote:
It may seem like a small point, but only a constitutional amendment can overturn a Supreme Court decision. The Supreme Court can, and does, reverse itself.
Point well taken. :) However, my larger point stands: it does not seem realistic to expect a favorable decision on incorporation in the near future, and coming from a lower court. We will probably have to wait for the Supreme Court to rule, which will probably take an additional year or more (it was almost 16 months from the 3-judge panel decision to the Supreme Court ruling in Heller, and that's without a rehearing en banc).
 

cato

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PubliusCA wrote:
Flyer22 wrote:
It may seem like a small point, but only a constitutional amendment can overturn a Supreme Court decision. The Supreme Court can, and does, reverse itself.
Point well taken. :) However, my larger point stands: it does not seem realistic to expect a favorable decision on incorporation in the near future, and coming from a lower court. We will probably have to wait for the Supreme Court to rule, which will probably take an additional year or more (it was almost 16 months from the 3-judge panel decision to the Supreme Court ruling in Heller, and that's without a rehearing en banc).
We shall see. We've beenunloaded in public since 1968(?). Other then being impatient, give or take a year or two is small change.! The wait is kill'in me.
 

gravedigger

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Jul 20, 2008
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Franklin, Kentucky, USA
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As an honest, law-abiding man who wants to LOC or LCC any damned TIME and nearly any damned PLACE I choose to without having to tip-toe through the paranoid delusions of the anti-American leftist liberals who believe that my weapon can somehow alter my perception of reality and cause me to draw and blast away at innocent civilians simply because I HAVE a weapon, and having no desire to memorize a myriad of six-digit civil codes that apply here but not there, and today but not yesterday any more than I would care to take the time to memorize the 1,000 most popular Bible verses ... I am curious about what is headed in our direction with those goals in mind.

Frankly, I think that nothing short of a full-on revolution with every damned liberal on American soil swinging from a rope under the soft glow of a street lamp is the only solution, and it should have begun one second after the Heller decision was announced. All of this "can't we all just get along" B.S. only means that those who refuse to acknowledge the obvious need to be bitch slapped until they cry.

I know, some of you folks prefer to plod through the legal system with surgical precision trying to convince the left to see things our way and rejoicing at each small victory. You have the patience of Job, but for me the issue has been settled.

Perhaps someone should post a link to all of the organizations that claim they are working on our behalf, so we can click on them to sign up as members.

So ... besides complying with your request to NOT OC in the Peoples Republic of CommieFornia (for now,) what else can I do for you, or WITH you, to expedite our cause?
 

fresno-opencarry-now

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Jul 1, 2008
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Clovis California, , USA
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great post,

I would also like to know FOR SURE, if those who are wanting us to NOT oc are actually working TOWARDS 100% freedom to oc here in California OR if they are simply trying to work the concealed carry efforts?

Are these same efforts trying to REMOVE all forms of registering to oc and conceal carry OR working towards making it so we MUST register, pay fees, get a card, spin in a circle THEN be able to enjoy our rights?

Are there any 100% open carry without restriction AND 100% conceal carry without restriction efforts in place now?

I too would love to help in any way I could AS LONG AS it is not to help further the regulation of rights that should NOT be regulated AT ALL.


gravedigger wrote:
As an honest, law-abiding man who wants to LOC or LCC any damned TIME and nearly any damned PLACE I choose to without having to tip-toe through the paranoid delusions of the anti-American leftist liberals who believe that my weapon can somehow alter my perception of reality and cause me to draw and blast away at innocent civilians simply because I HAVE a weapon, and having no desire to memorize a myriad of six-digit civil codes that apply here but not there, and today but not yesterday any more than I would care to take the time to memorize the 1,000 most popular Bible verses ... I am curious about what is headed in our direction with those goals in mind.

Frankly, I think that nothing short of a full-on revolution with every damned liberal on American soil swinging from a rope under the soft glow of a street lamp is the only solution, and it should have begun one second after the Heller decision was announced. All of this "can't we all just get along" B.S. only means that those who refuse to acknowledge the obvious need to be bitch slapped until they cry.

I know, some of you folks prefer to plod through the legal system with surgical precision trying to convince the left to see things our way and rejoicing at each small victory. You have the patience of Job, but for me the issue has been settled.

Perhaps someone should post a link to all of the organizations that claim they are working on our behalf, so we can click on them to sign up as members.

So ... besides complying with your request to NOT OC in the Peoples Republic of CommieFornia (for now,) what else can I do for you, or WITH you, to expedite our cause?
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
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Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
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I agree with fresno-opencarry-now.

I can't say I agree that "liberals" should be hanged. Opposing the prohibition of defense and the ownership of the means thereof is an inherently "liberal" stance.

http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/02/high-cost-of-gun-control.html

http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/04/virginia-tech-students-plea-why-was-i.html

http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/04/total-control-of-guns-is-total-control.html

Notice the name of the blog. Speaking of said blog, I suggest you spend some time reading it. It's written by a person who understands what "liberal" means. ;)

The politicians that are elected across all of California, who usually represent the "vocal minority" and special interest, are what I like to call "pseudo-liberals." Please do not confuse liberalism with their politics, and please do not suggest that you would like to see liberals hanged. You do NOT want to try a hanging against my person: I come with the means to defend myself. :p
 

CA_Libertarian

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Jul 18, 2007
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Stanislaus County, California, USA
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I believe that we're not yet at the point of needing violence to effect change. It may come to that, but I doubt it would be in my lifetime... hopefully never. However, I don't mind engaging in a strictly hypothetical debate.

Hypothetically, I would not choose to hang 'every damn liberal.' Maybe partially because I'm a pretty liberal guy. I think the 'conservatives' are just as guilty of our situation as the 'liberals.' Maybe it's just semantics, but that's all the more reason to avoid the labels. If this hypothetical revolution were needed (which I don't think it is), I'd say hang any person who violates any of our rights, regardless of political affiliation. I won't list offenses or name names; suffice it to say I feel equally victimized by policymakers in both major parties.

I want to reiterate that I'm speaking hypothetically. I believe our right to violently overthrow our government is a last resort. We still have a lot of peaceful avenues to pursue. It's an uphill battle, and sometimes it feels like we're backsliding, but I think patience will pay off in the long run. I have a great deal of confidence in my fellow countrymen; we are strong and resilient. We just need to get the word out and wake up the sheeple so they join in the (nonviolent) revolution that is already underway.
 

marshaul

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Fairfax County, Virginia
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CA_Libertarian wrote:
Maybe it's just semantics, but that's all the more reason to avoid the labels.

Good point. That's ultimately what I'm getting at when I take exception to certain things that are occasionally said on this board. :)

CA_Libertarian wrote:
I'd say hang any person who violates any of our rights, regardless of political affiliation.

This I can agree with wholeheartedly. ;)

CA_Libertarian wrote:
I have a great deal of confidence in my fellow countrymen; we are strong and resilient. We just need to get the word out and wake up the sheeple so they join in the (nonviolent) revolution that is already underway.

This is also a sentiment I share. It's also why I think OC is so important, and am occasionally caught expressing my displeasure with certain members of the CC camp.
 

Gray Peterson

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May 12, 2006
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Lynnwood, Washington, USA
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fresno-opencarry-now wrote:
great post,

I would also like to know FOR SURE, if those who are wanting us to NOT oc are actually working TOWARDS 100% freedom to oc here in California OR if they are simply trying to work the concealed carry efforts?
Answer to that question is "both". It's pretty damned clear from the holding that there must be some form of carry allowed, and that concealed carry doesn't fit the mustard insofar as "bearing arms" is concerned, and given the fact that it's a fundamental right, it would be hard for anyone to argue for banning open carry, but leaving licensed concealed carry only, especially when there's fees, prior restraint, etc.

As for "what can we do to help", here's what you can do:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=110805

Donate to the Calguns Foundation to represent "bobbarker" in the loaded OC case when he was actually unloaded OC'ing. Currently he's being represented by Chuck Michel of Trutanich-Michel LLP, one of our best pro-gun lawyers in California. The more we contribute to Sean's case, the better off that Calguns can be when the balloon goes up with Nordyke.

It's damned clear, even from the holding of Heller, that open carry is the "Bearing arms" that is spoken of in the Second Amendment. Post-Nordyke incorporation every law enforcement officer in California who attempts to arrest for even loaded OC under PC 12031 or within that 1000 foot school zone law in PC626.9 runs a serious risk of running afoul of 42USC Sections 281, 282, and 1983.
 

demnogis

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Jul 21, 2008
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Orange County, California, USA
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I agree... there is too much use of the words "liberals" and "conservatives". Unfortunately these terms have been used to paint a very broad and negative brush against any person labeled so. That's quite unfair. If you know the true meaning of someone who is liberal or conservative, I would have to say we are both. We are liberal in the progressive movement of re-establishing our rights and repealing these unconstitutional laws and reprimanding those who wish to deprive us of our rights. (in contrast to sheeple) and conservative in the sense that we don't think gun controls should be as strict as they are, that we should go "back to how it was" before all this nonsense.

Point out those directly for their actions. Don't use such a vague terms when it can have multiple meanings, implied or direct. That's what sheeple do - play into party politics with the labeling.

Personally, I think those who wish to deprive us of our constitutionally granted rights and liberties are traitors - and should be hung, all the same.
 

CA_Libertarian

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demnogis wrote:
Personally, I think those who wish to deprive us of our constitutionally granted rights and liberties are traitors - and should be hung, all the same.
I'm sure you mean 'constitutionally enumerated rights.' The constitution grants some very limited powers to the government. We are born with all other rights and powers, some of which are guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.

Of course, it's a moot point since government generally ignores the constitution...
 

Californian

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Jun 26, 2008
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Turlock, California, USA
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I think how it was put was;
[font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]
"I don't give a goddamn," Bush retorted. "I'm the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way."
"Mr. President," one aide in the meeting said. "There is a valid case that the provisions in this law {the Patriot Act} undermine the Constitution."
"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face," Bush screamed back.
"It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"
[/font]

From: http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7779.shtml

:shock: :banghead:
 

gravedigger

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Franklin, Kentucky, USA
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It is sad to see that some people still cling to the Jeffersonian definition of "liberal' and point to Webster's definition and other misleading sources.

A "liberal" in today's world refers to a very specific type of ... person, and I use that term loosely.

People say I cannot define a "liberal." Well, if someone asks me to define a "liberal," my response is:

"The Clintons, the Gores, The Kerrys, Rosie O'Donnell, Michael Moore, Al Franken, Ed Asner, Sean Penn, Nancy Pulosi, George Soros, Jesse Jackson, Louis Farakan, Al Sharpton, Barack Obama, Jimmy Carter, Chicago's Mayor Daley and Illinois' governor Rod R. Blagojevich, and on and on ... partial birth abortion, gay marriage, removing God from EVERYTHING, gun banning and gun-confiscation, the energy crisis, forcing all of us into tiny cars in the name of saving fuel, Global Warming, The ACLU, NAMBLA, the forced redistribution of wealth, spitting on returning soldiers, AIDS, the desire to SHRED the U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence, pimps, drug dealers, gangs, illiteracy, welfare, crime, drugs, alcoholism, rape, robbery, burglary, murder, muggings, insurance fraud, car alarms, the need for tamper-proof seals on our food products, the NEA, the corruption of our public education system, students graduating high school unable to write their own names or read a traditional clock with hands, or make change for a simple transaction at a cash register, teaching American students all about ISLAM while forbidding them to say a Christian prayer in class and trying to remove the celebrations of Christmas and Easter from our society while promoting inferior pagan replacements, Socialism, Marxism, Communism, working HARD to make America fall on it's knees before the U.N. and ask for their permission to exist, Telling America to APOLOGIZE to the world for our success, looking to Europe as a model of what America should strive to become, allowing career criminals to re-enter society after a slap on the hand, REPEAT rapists being let out of jail for "good behavior," Child molesters walking free among our society, ... "

That is how *I* define a "liberal."

Now some of you may be Libertarian! but I doubt there are any "liberals" on this board.
 
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