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Thread: this is my "good and sufficent cause"

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    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25872864



    so far as it seems no children were hurt and thank goodness for that.

    so if i am ever asked, this is my good and sufficent cause to carry at church.

    never know who decides todays the day. again so sad,

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    "without good and sufficient reason"

    I'd say the life of myself and loved ones is good and sufficient reason.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    This was brought up after the Colorado church shootings, and after just about every other event that took place within three states of a church.

    Which IMNSHO is a Good ThingTM.

    Isn't it strange (he asks rhetorically) that there has neen absolutely no discussion on the MSM about self-responsibility and the fact trhat the police have no legal responsibility to protect you even if they know when, where, how, and by whom you are going to be killed?

    I was always taught that G-d provides the means for us to carry out His wishes, and that except in the case of some very rare miracles He expects us to do the heavy lifting. That includes defense of self and family.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    See sister thread on same subject at
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/14164.html

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member vbnative73's Avatar
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    This particular church actually help found their local chapter of the ACLU. I wouldn't imagine they're very gun-friendly, even now.

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    hlh wrote:
    It's my opinion that as society continues to driftstoward secularism that we'llsee more and more attacks on churches. I and others consistantly carry in church because of this.
    The greatest religious conflict in the history of Western civilization, the 30 Years War, was NOT fought between believers and agnostics and atheists. It was fought between Protestants and Catholics.

    Most of the shootings in or about houses of worship of which I'm aware were committed by the religious, usually former members of those congregations or those with an axe to grind with a particular member.

    Trust me, I can't speak for the atheists, but most of us agnostics just don't care enough about your religion or anyone else's to cross the street, much less shoot a bunch of innocent people.

    As for you carrying in church, at WORST there's no harm in it. At best, it might save somebody's life. Right after 9/11, a friend's synagogue could have put on a gunshow with just the concealed handguns being carried by the members.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    oops

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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    Carried at church yesterday. It is absolutely "good and sufficient reason". I would imagine that no one at that church was expecting to have a gunman visit their Sunday services. I don't expect to have this problem at my church. I am not the only person who carries. My theory is: Hope for the best, and plan for the worst. I don't want my only option to be to tackle the gunman to stop his killing spree.

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    dng wrote:
    Carried at church yesterday. It is absolutely "good and sufficient reason". I would imagine that no one at that church was expecting to have a gunman visit their Sunday services. I don't expect to have this problem at my church. I am not the only person who carries. My theory is: Hope for the best, and plan for the worst. I don't want my only option to be to tackle the gunman to stop his killing spree.
    Mrs. Hupp's father, of Luby's Restaurant fame, tried the same tactic of tackling the shooter. It didn't work. I imagine you could jump him as he passes a doorway or something like that but there was no optioin like that available to her father.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    In MO you can't carry into a church without permission of the person in charge, typically the minister. If you violate this it is not criminal and the only thing they can ask you to do is leave.

    Here's the curious thing though. Following the Colorado Springs shootings, I was invited by 2 different ministers I know, of 2 different denominations, who know I do not attend church (issue with organized religion not God), and who know I religiously carry (pun intended), to visit/attend their churches armed. Not that they were ok with me being armed, but that they encouraged my being armed when I attended. If only my fiancee and I can find a church of our preferred denomination that shares that view it will be all good.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    I used to carry at church because of these types of attacks (ever since that incident in WI a couple years ago), but now my family attends a church that holds meetings in a high school auditorium. Somehow I don't think the authorities would care that no students are present if anything bad happened. Is anyone else confronted by this conflict of interest?

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    NavyBlue99TA wrote:
    I used to carry at church because of these types of attacks (ever since that incident in WI a couple years ago), but now my family attends a church that holds meetings in a high school auditorium. Somehow I don't think the authorities would care that no students are present if anything bad happened. Is anyone else confronted by this conflict of interest?
    I'd look into the law, you are renting the facility so in essence it is yours and not a school. As always IANAL, call the Commonwealth Attorney or VCDL.

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