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Thread: Lehi PD encounter

  1. #1
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    The audio tells the story.

    But first, tell me how to get audio on the interweb.

  2. #2
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Does anybody know how to get audio on here?

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    upload the mp3 or wav or whatever you have it in somewhere and then post the link.

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Don't know where to upload it to.

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    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    You can upload it to www.putfile.com or even youtube.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Youtube wouldn't let me. Maybe I can e-mail it to you and you can get it up?

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    [media=320,256]http://www.bromeme.com/thx/police-about-oc2.wav[/media]

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Okay, it's up now.
    [quicktime=320,256]http://www.bromeme.com/thx/police-about-oc2.wav[/quicktime]



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    the embedded doesn't seem to like me

    Anyone who wants to just download it Right click save as http://www.bromeme.com/thx/police-about-oc2.wav

    Do you have a transcript because I can't understand most of it.

  10. #10
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Doesn't work in the link for me.

    I can write a transcript.

    The stuff that is important is at the end.



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    Regular Member LovesHisXD45's Avatar
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    thx997303 wrote:
    Doesn't work in the link for me.

    I can write a transcript.

    The stuff that is important is at the end.

    Can you summarize it for us?

    Kevin
    If it isn't broke, then don't fix it, or you'll fix it until it's broke.

  12. #12
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    The embedded audio in Cykaos's post works, but I'm working on a transcript right now.

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    Regular Member LovesHisXD45's Avatar
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    thx997303 wrote:
    The embedded audio in Cykaos's post works, but I'm working on a transcript right now.
    Sweet. I'm gonna hit the sack soon. I'll probably get to read it tomorrow morning.


    If it isn't broke, then don't fix it, or you'll fix it until it's broke.

  14. #14
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Here's the transcript.

    Me: Flashlight.
    Officer1: You what?
    Me: I’m holding a flashlight.
    Officer1: A flashlight?
    Me: Yep.
    Me: How you guys doing today?
    Officer1: Not too bad how are you?
    Me: Good up till that guy started botherin me.
    Officer1: Do you have any weapons on you?
    Me: Not on me.
    Officer 1: Did you?
    Me: Yeah. I usually carry.
    Officer1: Unintelligible.
    Me: I was out here in my backyard, and uh, my wife was feeding the cattle back there, and uh, you know, hand feeding grass to it. I walked out and started talkin to her, and then uh, I started pickin up a pile of sticks just right there next to the tree.
    Me: It’s not there anymore, but it was right there next to the fence. Anyway, I hear a whistlin and I look up, and he’s standin there, and I just go about my business. He drives his car over here and parks It next to that telephone pole, and comes into my backyard, and uh he asks me uh, what are you doin’ with my cows? I said well nothin, and uh, he says well I have ya on video tape, I says, doin what?
    Me: He says I dunno. I said, are your cows injured? He says I dunno, and then, then he starts bein rude. I don’t remember exactly what he said, and I told him you know, just get off, get off the property. I don’t wanna see you on this side of the fence again.
    Me: He’s come over and done the same thing more than once. So uh, he walks over there and pulls his car backwards a foot or two, starts throwin stuff at the cattle, which is none of my business, I just keep moving sticks over here to the garbage can, and then, I was standing there, I’d picked up a couple cans and he was lookin at me, and I looked back at him, and he says what’s your interest in the cows?
    Me: And at this time I was just like, you know, unintelligible, I don’t wanna be around this guy so I come over here, looked for somethin in my car, I didn’t find it and I went back inside, disarmed. And uh, that way, you know,

    Officer1: Do you have a concealed carry permit?
    Me: I do not.
    Officer1: Okay. Was your gun loaded?
    Me: Nope.
    Officer1: Nothing in the chamber?
    Me: Nothing in the chamber, just a full mag. And open, of course.
    Officer1: Do you have your license on ya?
    Me: I do.
    Unintellible, but I was getting out my ID
    Officer1: Just pull it out.
    Me: Here It is.
    Me: Here come over and told us that, we were a liability, cuz his cows, or something. And, I told him, multiple times it’s your fence that’s a liability, it’s just not up to, up to par, is there a code on that?
    Officer1: Na, I have no idea on that.
    Me: Yeah, I don’t know either. But uh, I just didn’t want the situation escalating further so I disarmed just in case he come over, he wasn’t threatening in any way.
    Officer1: Okay.
    Officer1 introduces me to Officer2, Then I explain all of this to him again. Not going to transcript that because you already saw it and I don’t want to so there. J
    I did add that he backed up down the street to his house. Rather quickly.
    Officer2: Now the guy that called, he basically he doesn’t want you near the cows, he doesn’t want you feedin the cows.
    Me: Okay, I understand.
    Officer2: So, that’s the only issue he had. But one of you guys……(unintelligible)
    Me: That’s fine. I can’t control where the cows go.
    Officer2: Right.
    Me: If they’re next to the fence, and I’m next to the fence, I don’t want to get the cops called on me for doin stuff in my own backyard.
    Officer2: So basically, he doesn’t want you messing with the cows.
    Me: And that’s fine, I wasn’t messin with the cows myself and I’ll tell my wife to leave the cows alone. But you know, he can’t be comin on my property, actin like he was you know? I mean, yeah I don’t own the property, but I do lawfully rent the property. That gives me most of the rights. You know, to tell people not to be on the property.
    Me: When we first moved here, my cow, excuse me my wife. J Um, had (unintelligible) he come over here, he was being quite rude, he was being a lot worse then, but that was a while ago so it doesn’t matter now.
    Me: Yeah I mean, if that’s the case, yeah I’ll tell my wife not to feed the cows, I just don’t want him comin’ over here botherin me, I mean, for perfectly lawful activities in my backyard.
    Officer2: Yeah well if he’s coming on your property you need to just call us, and we’ll handle it.
    Me: And like I said, I did wrong, I usually carry, it’s a self protection thing. I disarmed because I was worried that, he might come yell at me or somethin and I didn’t want it to look like I was lookin for something wrong.
    Officer Call: You know the Open carry laws
    Me: Yes I do, Yes I do.
    Officer Call: Off your property it has to be unloaded.
    Me: Uh huh, yeah.
    Officer Call: You know, it’s becoming an issue, if if you, and as a police officer it becomes an issue. You should get a concealed carry permit, if you had a gun or anything like that. If you want a gun for protection purposes you should get a concealed carry permit
    Me: I can’t get one, I’m not 21.
    Officer Call: Then you can’t be carrying a pistol with you.
    Me: Yes I can.
    Officer Call: Well, with a parent with you.
    Me: No, not true. Sorry. It has to be unloaded and it has to be visible. I know the laws quite well, I’ve studied em,
    Officer Call: Look at the laws, they say you can’t own or possess a pistol.
    Me: At 18, by state law. Federal law, only restricts me from buying a pistol at the age of 21, uh, under 21, from a federal firearms dealer. I know the laws quite well, I could cite you some of em, but I don’t feel like it.
    Officer Call: You’re gonna cause yourself more problems.
    Unintelligible
    Me: I have a 2nd amendment right to do so.
    Officer Call: And I’m not saying I’m gonna take that right away from you. Unintelligible I’m gonna say, be quiet about it. Cause you’re living in a country here where everybody’s gonna freak out.
    Me: They don’t have a right to not be, They don’t have a right to feel comfortable.
    Officer Call: They have a right to feel comfortable.
    Me: They don’t have a right to feel comfortable. Read the constitution.
    Officer Call: Everybody has the right to feel comfortable.
    Me: Everybody has the right, to a life, and pursuit of happiness, they have a right to keep and bear arms, etc etc. They do not, anywhere in the constitution have the right, to feel comfortable.
    Officer Call: I’m not gonna sit here and argue with ya.
    Me: Well, you brought it up. I know your view, and I respectfully disagree.
    Officer Call: You can, but just realize, your gonna get people calling, and we’ll have to talk to you about it,
    Me: I’ve been carrying for a year now.
    Officer Call: I know, I don’t know if you remember who I am, When your father in law (Was actually future step father) and you got in a big ol’ argument.
    Me: Yep. (Will explain that in a minute)
    Officer Call: And you said you were joining the military. We had a talk then about that.
    Me: I remember talking about, a uh, er uh, H and K 416?
    Unintelligible.
    Officer Call: Well, I’m not even gonna go there.
    Me: Yes I understand in that situation I would not have been justified in drawing my weapon. I understand that.
    Officer Call: Are you in the military?
    Me: Yes I am in the military. I’ll be leaving on the 12th.
    Officer Call: What unit are you in?
    Me: I’m in the 144th, right now I’m in RSP, Alpha company out there at Camp Williams.
    Officer Call: Just do us a favor, and I’m not gonna tell you you don’t have the right, you do. Do us a favor though, try to be a little more discreet about it, if possible.
    Me: How so, I mean suggestions? Without breaking the law? How am I supposed to carry discreetly without breaking the law?
    Officer Call: Well it doesn’t help when you lift your pants up.
    Me: I know that was a, an oversight .
    Officer Call: I mean carrying a gun is a use of force.
    Me: It’s not a use of force. Carrying is not a use of force.
    Officer Call: It is a use of force. It’s the continuum of force.
    Me: You know what, You mug me, you threaten my life, you know what, I’m ready to defend my life, and they know that. I’m ready to defend my life the same as all of you correct?
    Officer Call: Well, We’re gonna take off , Unintelligible, Watch what you do with a gun.

    We part ways.


    Anyway, the previous incident Officer Call was referencing, My future step father, was drunk, and started pushing me around, then pushed my then pregnant wife into a wall.
    At my mom's house. Anyway, he goes outside, then I tell him that he is not coming back into the house. He tries to push through me, when I wont let him in, he hit me over the head with a boot. I punched him several times, and he staggered out the door and into the street.
    Purely self defense. I was bleeding pretty profusely from the back of my head, and I have a bit of a scar back there.
    Nothing really, just a bad night.



  15. #15
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    ...I could cite you some of em, but I don’t feel like it.
    There are a few parts of that where I don't think you handled yourself very well and just came across as a kid in the mood for an argument. The above quote being an example. It sounds like "I know the law and you don't but I won't actually cite any specific laws cause I don't want to". It seems like the cop acted professionally even if he was a little ignorant on some laws but towards the end it seems like he was just tired of talking to you and decided to leave. I don't think there was much of a point to most of the argument. It came off as "Yes I can" "no you cant" "yes I can" "no you cant". The arguing about the constitutional right to feel comfortable was pointless.

    After explaining why I OC, why I can't have a CC permit, and explaining that in Utah you can own and carry an unloaded firearm at 18 I personally would have just thanked the officer for his concern and ask him if there was anything else I could do for him.

  16. #16
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    The officer was wrong. I was not being disrespectful. I was not in the mood to be told I was wrong.

    He was dead wrong. He needed to be corrected. I did not feel like going into it any further.

    I am very tired. I was at the time.

    I could have been much worse. Felt like cussing him out.

    Thank you for your input.

    You know what, screw it. I say bull. That whole comment with a parent, was so dang condescending. Bull. I handled myself more than fair.

    Most officers don't want you ramming laws down their throat. This officer knows me personally, knows I'm a father, and knows that I am a self respecting, competent adult. And he knows to suggest otherwise is something that I do not tolerate.

    He was insulting me. That is all there is too it. He knows that is bull.

    He also knows that I moved out of my mother's house at 16, because he was the responding officer when I had to get the keys to my car, and my mother wouldn't let me in.

    Bull. Sorry, but you pissed me off with that one. Know the story, then comment.

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    sfemti33 wrote:
    thx997303 wrote:
    The officer was wrong. I was not being disrespectful. I was not in the mood to be told I was wrong.

    He was dead wrong. He needed to be corrected. I did not feel like going into it any further.

    I am very tired. I was at the time.

    I could have been much worse. Felt like cussing him out.

    Thank you for your input.

    You know what, screw it. I say bull. That whole comment with a parent, was so dang condescending. Bull. I handled myself more than fair.

    Most officers don't want you ramming laws down their throat. This officer knows me personally, knows I'm a father, and knows that I am a self respecting, competent adult. And he knows to suggest otherwise is something that I do not tolerate.

    He was insulting me. That is all there is too it. He knows that is bull.

    He also knows that I moved out of my mother's house at 16, because he was the responding officer when I had to get the keys to my car, and my mother wouldn't let me in.

    Bull. Sorry, but you pissed me off with that one. Know the story, then comment.
    It appears he did know the situation, as I did, he read your thread(unless you were leaving something out). Seems pretty cut and dry. You were looking for a fight then and now because cykaos doesnt agree with you, you are looking for a fight with him. Maybe you should take a step back and look at the constructive criticism he was trying to give you as to better handle yourself with LEO's. You also seem to have some underlying anger issues that would do you well to have looked at. I understand your point of view, but if you cant verbalize it then LEO's will just look at you as a kid with a gun spouting his mouth off. Relax a bit, cykaos wasnt attacking you, he was letting you know you probably could have handled yourself a bit better. Take it for what it was, as big brotherly advice.

    (P.S. werent you one of the guys on the other board who ragged on me for not being respectful in my replies to others??? Maybe you should take your own advice to heart)
    Okay, my turn to throw in my .02:

    I have listened to the Download and read the transcription as well. I feel that i have educated myself with the story as well as i could with the information i had. here are my thoughts:

    THX - i don't think you were being rude. i wanted to say that right off that bat. i understand that you are military and that is more than likely a hot topic for you. (the ability to show respect..)

    Onward: Any encounter with multiple police officers are going to wind anyone up to the point that they speak in a more excited tone, or respond a bit differently that normal - just due to progressive stress. Not to mention NOW you found out that this cop responded to a earlier call in your life and who knows what your feelings are on that, today.

    When it was all said and done, the cops left. THX, no cuff - Why? Because THX really didn't do anything wrong. It was a miss-understanding between him and the owners of the cows, it would seem. The owner obviously thought THX was messing with his livestock. At that point, ANYONE OF YOU, would have confronted THX - the "assumed" aggressor against the cows.. Sounds like it escalated verbally and the cops came.

    You know what - im watching an episode of Court TV RIGHT NOW where a 20 year something firefighter veteran, of some fire station (somewhere other than Utah), shot and killed 3 people outside of his home due to excessive fireworks noise....

    So you know what, i think the situation here, with THX vs. the Cows, came out alright. and everyone handled themselves just fine.

  19. #19
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Thank you protected. In all honesty I was a bit excited at the moment. Very slightly shaking. Angry, and nervous to be honest.

    Past stuff you know.

    Anywho, I know this officer quite well, and this officer already knew my views on open carry.

    He already has spoke with me about it, and I have already educated him on the laws.

    So he was merely looking to argue. And I responded.

    Sorry if I offended some. But the past has to be cleared up before you say I was looking for a fight.



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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    I agree, I could have handled htat part better. Sorry about the italics, they wont turn off.

    It's quite a sore spot for me. Lot's of history there, and every single officer in Lehi, while they may not know me in particular, know my past.

    And they all know that it's a dang miracle that I turned out to be an honest law abiding citizen. And they also know that I have a defend my family, code of honor.

    And knowing my history, merely even suggesting that I, a 20 year old father, who became independent of his parents at 16, who has a history of not being taken care of by, or even cared about by, my parents for long stretches of my life, saying something like that is enough to get some people slapped.

    With this, I believe I did quite well with the whole encounter. A few years ago I would have been cussing him out something fierce. And I would have went to jail.

    Luckily, I have gained control of my temper, for the most part.

    Refer to the other situations I have posted. Morons, and Morons day 2.

    While not perfect, I did handle those situations okay.

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    There is nothing in Utah law to stop you from carrying on any out of state permit. May I recommend getting a Maine Permit, Utah by law has to allow it. It does not mention that you have to be 21 to carry a firearm, the law only says you have to be at least 21 to get a Utah permit.



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    Jared wrote:
    There is nothing in Utah law to stop you from carrying on any out of state permit. May I recommend getting a Maine Permit, Utah by law has to allow it. It does not mention that you have to be 21 to carry a firearm, the law only says you have to be at least 21 to get a Utah permit.

    That is correct Jared.

    As long as you have a Permit that is recognized in Utah you can CC and OC loaded no natter what the age. Id you have a CFP from another state when you are 18 you are good to go.

    Get the Maine permit:celebrate

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    Just to break the tension a bit, Protectedby9mm wrote "THX vs. the Cows"!!!!

    :celebrate:celebrate Sounds like a really bad B-minus movie!!!!



    Oh, and by the way, THX i think you did O.K. Like almost any situation, it could have been a little better, could have been a lot worse. Analyse what you did right, and what you did wrong, make mental notes for any furthar encounters.

    Wisdom comes to those who are patient. Are we there yet?!


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