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Thread: Carrying a gun: dangers vs benefits

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    My mom and my brother are very much against me carrying a gun, which I intend to do mostly concealed. I don't think it will be at all possible to convince them otherwise, but at the moment they don't me carrying a gun at all anywhere near them.

    I told them why I have made the choice of getting a gun and my desire to carry it. The reasons have likely been widely discussed before, but what about the other side?

    So far, their biggest concern is that by having a gun on me, it will makes things worse and it puts me in more danger. Their argument is that if I'm robbed at gun point, regardless if I pull my gun or not (If he has the drop on me, I won't), I'll be shot once he finds out. Another one of their main arguments is that I will have my gun taken from me and shot if I get into some random fight (My bro's example was if a drunk guy mistakes me for someone else and tackles me).

    Now I know that situational awareness is key to avoiding many bad situations, but no one can know ahead of time what's coming 100% of the time. I know this is a pro-gun website, but I want to try to be as objective as possilbe and explore all sides of the benefits, as well as the dangers of carrying a gun (open or concealed). I'd like to know what you guys think.

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Well, a gun grab is pretty much non-existent. Though I had someone grab my gun.

    Friend thought it was a joke. It wasn't.

    Anyway, I do not see any extra danger that you would be putting yourself in, especially CCing.

    If you do it right, nobody will see it.

    They are basically telling you that you are in more danger by taking steps to protect yourself.........See the problem here?

    Being objective, I see that their argument carries no weight.

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    Regular Member razor_baghdad's Avatar
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    holeinhead wrote:
    Now I know that situational awareness is key to avoiding many bad situations, but no one can know ahead of time what's coming 100% of the time. I know this is a pro-gun website, but I want to try to be as objective as possilbe and explore all sides of the benefits, as well as the dangers of carrying a gun (open or concealed). I'd like to know what you guys think.
    SA AND an OC/CC may have prevented this:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...29331#23929331

    Show this to your mother and she may OC/CC right there next to you!

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    The only familial objection I've had is "You'll go to jail because carrying a gun is illegal"

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Love your parents for who they are. They obviously taught you to think for yourself and you have chosen wisely. Time may be on your side. Never let anyone make you feel guilty for accepting the responsibility for the safety of yourself or others.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Greetings Holeinhead, and welcome to the forums.

    Your family's arguments against carrying hold no statistical weight whatsoever. Ask them to tell you how many times they've ever heard of, or can even find on the internet, of:

    1.Someone besides a police officer having their gun taken and used against them? (Police officers are forced to be in dangerous situations, and most gun grabs are from criminals in last ditch efforts to escape arrest.)

    2. Someone being shot or shot first by a criminal because they think or find out the person has a gun?

    3. ANY case of ANYONE carrying a concealed handgun that has had MORE trouble because of it.

    They will have nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Their fears are completely unfounded. Especially if concealed, nobody is even going to know you have one, so how could that possibly make you more in danger than if you weren't carrying? Situational awareness is also key, and something I struggle with, but that is your best defense.The handgun is your back up plan in case attack is unavoidable.

    The "mistaken identity by a drunk who tackles you" argument is funny. Does that happen a lot around there or something?

    Now show them this website:

    http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefe...g/blogger.html
    Where Clayton Cramer and David Burnett blog civilians using guns in self-defense. Links to real news stories where civillians used firearms to protect life & property.

    Another great source of information that refutes the anti-gun myths is Gunfacts:
    http://www.gunfacts.info/
    Download version 5.0 and read it. Great information, and all facts have cited sources.

    I don't know what your financial situation is, but you could also take some additional handgun self defense training. It's a good idea just for the additional training, anyway. Try to find some training that includes weapon retention techniques. Better yet, bring them to the classes!

    Carrying concealed has "social advantage" over open carry, meaning that others don't know you're armed, and you can go about your business without anyone thinking negatively of you because you have a gun. Depending on how you conceal it, you may still have the potential hazard of accidentally exposing it, then someone calling the police (this does happen occasionally). You still have an element of suprise, which really only works in an offensive situation, not defensive. A criminal is not going to friskfor weapons. Opportunity may present itself to distract the attacker and allow you to draw from concealment, or even just make your escape.

    My personal opinion is that it's better in most situations to just carry openly. You do have the hazard of confrontations by anti-gun people or police. However, you also have the added bonus of deterring criminals from even messing with you to begin with . I feel the more of us that do open carry, the less social stigma there will be for us. I hope that someday we will all be able to open carry without worry of confrontation because of it.

    So it's a balancing act. There's pros and cons to carrying or not, (always better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it), then other pros and cons to CC or OC (social advantage, element of suprise vs. chance of confrontation, deterrance of crime, exercising your right).

    All the facts and statistics are on your side. Research and use them.

    Finally, read and understandthis little bit of information, I can't remember who said it, it was one of the great sales gurus like Zig Ziglar. It's absolutely true, andworks for ANY argument or discussion:

    You can never change someone's mind. Ever.

    You can only give them new information they did not already have.This allows them to make a new decision based on the new information they have received.

    ...Good luck...
    ...Orygunner...

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    my family...as conservative as they are think i am nuts for carrying, or owning so many guns... some of my friends do to, but it's my choice.

    they all thinks its wierd/wrong/illegal/stupid/insane...partially because they live in NY and the North East.


    you made a choice...your fam needs to respect it.

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    razor_baghdad wrote:
    SA AND an OC/CC may have prevented this:

    Orygunner wrote:
    The "mistaken identity by a drunk who tackles you" argument is funny. Does that happen a lot around there or something?

    Now show them this website: http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefe...g/blogger.html Where Clayton Cramer and David Burnett blog civilians using guns in self-defense. Links to real news stories where civillians used firearms to protect life & property.

    Another great source of information that refutes the anti-gun myths is Gunfacts: http://www.gunfacts.info/ Download version 5.0 and read it. Great information, and all facts have cited sources.

    I don't know what your financial situation is, but you could also take some additional handgun self defense training. It's a good idea just for the additional training, anyway. Try to find some training that includes weapon retention techniques. Better yet, bring them to the classes!
    I too think the randrom drunk tackle is a little silly too, but I think the point is that if for some reason I get into a simple fight, the attacker may find my gun which may be taken, or simply will escalate the situationj further than it would have been without it. I'm not a guy to get into a physical fight, but that doesn't mean I can't get into an unprovoked one. If that were to happen, I could see their point that in that situation, provided that it's just a simple fight, I might be better of without the gun possibly escalating it.

    Another example they gave me that I think is silly as well, is that if I were to carry at one of my jobs (at a restaurant, I dishwash), some of the other workers, most who just graduated high school, might find out I have the gun. They would then supposedly tell friends, who would tell friends, and so on, and I'll be attacked for my gun. Why people would randomly attack me for being armed when they know I'm armed doesn't make sense to me, and if they wanted a gun so bad there are much easier ways than attacking an armed person.

    I have read gunfacts 5.0 and showed them sections in it, but they still think the dangers they've told me outweigh the benefits of carrying. They also consider the statistics to be biased or arranged in a way to be pro-gun.

    As for training, that is definately something I want. I want to have as much knowledge and training as I can so if something bad did happen, I'd be more likely to know and execute the actions that need to be taken. At the moment, time (2 jobs) and finances restrict me.

    Like I said before, I don't think they can be convinced it's "OK" for me to carry unless they themselve's experience something like the example razor_baghdad gave, or had someone really threaten their lives. But I'm hoping I can at least make them a little more comfortable with me doing so, because at the moment, both have been trying to get me to not carry, and they have told me they don't want me carrying at all near them or their friends, or at work. (One at an airport, I can't conceal anyways due to the uniform, and it's an airport and we have our own security force. The other I need to ask the manager first if they approve, if not, then I'll respect their private property and not bring it)

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    It may seem a little informal to do this but ask them for sources to their claims. I do that all the time now anytime someone says "this is the law". If they say that I ask them to show it to me and that shuts most of them up. Ask them to give you credible sources with facts to back up their claims. They might be able to find one or two if they dig deep, but you can find thousands to the contrary. If logic is part of their thinking they'll soon change their opinion, if it isn't then why do you hope to convince them?

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    Here's a link to a website that points out and refutes many gun myths that the anti's have been propagating:

    http://www.mcsm.org/gunfacts.pdf

    http://www.gunfacts.info/index.html

    Next is alink to an excellentfirearms safety page belonging to a member of this forum, Stephen P. Wenger:

    http://www.spw-duf.info/safety.html



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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Get trained in proper defensive use, get a good holster, get a good gun that won't discharge if it falls and shoot you like happened to me, and you'll be vastly safer with your gun than without.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    holeinhead wrote:
    My mom and my brother are very much against me carrying a gun, which I intend to do mostly concealed. I don't think it will be at all possible to convince them otherwise, but at the moment they don't me carrying a gun at all anywhere near them.

    I told them why I have made the choice of getting a gun and my desire to carry it. The reasons have likely been widely discussed before, but what about the other side?
    I hope you finally come to understand that there is no "other side" -unless you are living under a roof belonging to someone else - in which case there is no "your side" as long as you stay under that roof.

    Presuming you are an adult living in your own place, it seems you have considered options and made your choice. Mom and your brother are going to have to accept that. They may not like the choice you have made, but that's a different discussion.

    It is impossible to tell from your post if Mom and your brother are operating from an emotional or a logical stance. But whichever they are operating from does not matter. They have reached their conclusions, just as you have reached yours. Over time, and regarding many issues, you may come to discover that it just is not worth everyone getting all worked up over the matter. Love them because they are your family. Over the years it will not matter if they came to your way of thinking or not, or however begrudgingly they "accepted" that you decided to go your way in spite of their feelings and thoughts.

    If self defense is such an important issue to you that you are not willing to disarm when around them and whenentering their home(s) if that is what they want you to do, then be prepared to disinherit them now. If that is what they want and you are willing to do it, it will never mean that you compromised your beliefs about self defense.

    In other words, this will most likely become another of those things (like how so-and-so's brother made the worst husband and father in the history of the world, except in the eyes of his wife and family)that family members agree not to talk about. Till it gets to be that way, just smile and remember to say "Oh, look at the butterfly!" every time it comes up. (that is a trick some old coot taught me years ago - I'm still trying to pull it off.)

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Thanks for the replies all. I'm not prepared to "disinherit" my family at all on such an issue as this. I'm just trying to reach a common ground with them so that me carrying won't be as much of an issue.

    Hopfully time will help and they'll get a little more comfortable with the idea, even if they disagree, which they probably always will.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    holeinhead wrote:
    Thanks for the replies all. I'm not prepared to "disinherit" my family at all on such an issue as this. I'm just trying to reach a common ground with them so that me carrying won't be as much of an issue.

    Hopfully time will help and they'll get a little more comfortable with the idea, even if they disagree, which they probably always will.
    Time works well as long as you handle it in a manner than is not disarming - pun intended.

    Ask yourself if you would change your religious beliefs or not see the person whom you loved to please their opposing views. I would not and hope you would not. Be yourself, be patient and don't let it bother you.

    It took my partner's parents years to accept my carrying and then they discovered that she was carrying also. :shock: Now when we go out to eat, they ask us if we have our weapons and say "Good" when we confirm.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    You should have seen my mother in laws face when she saw her daughter carrying.

    It was like :what::? in that order.

    In my experience, sometimes to live your own life, you're gonna piss people off.

    And that's okay. You can't live your life based on the way others live theirs.

    Trust me, they will get over it eventually.

    Don't just blow them off either, continue your relationship, but live your own way.

    Maybe CC around them, but carry anyway.

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    When i got married, my mother disowned me for over a year after causing a ruckus at my wedding....it took time, but she came around. i didn't budge one bit out of respect for my wife...i guess i can draw the parallel to this with your situation.

    it's what you wanna do...they can either accept it or reject. Like the above poster said, don't blow them off, but don't budge.

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    Yeah, definately not going to blow them off. I'd be a terrible person for doing that. CC is my preference most of the time out of respect for my family who wants as few people to know that I have a gun. I'd OC more, but that would cause more trouble and stress than I care to deal with, or to place upon my family.

    I think they'll calm down after a while. They've asked me not to carry around them, and I think for now it would be prudent for me to respect their wishes. With our fam situation, I don't want undue stress on them, but will carry as much as possible outside of that.

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    thx997303 wrote:
    Being objective, I see that their argument carries no weight.
    This.

    What the OP is asking for is not objectivity, but for us to wrap our heads around baseless, irrational arguments for the purposes of rebutting them.

    I'll leave that up to the rest of you. I'm not in the mood.

    Grapeshot wrote:
    Love your parents for who they are. They obviously taught you to think for yourself and you have chosen wisely. Time may be on your side. Never let anyone make you feel guilty for accepting the responsibility for the safety of yourself or others.

    Yata hey
    This too. Stand on your principles, which are strong, and you will be fine. Your parents may even come around one day. I know my mom did.

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    My brother-in-law doesn't like guns at all. Some New York thing, I guess. Anyway, since my wife and her sister are very close, she goes over to their house a lot, and I often have to ....err, I mean go with her willingly. In my opinion, he doesn't need to know I'm carrying, so I simply don't tell him.

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    When my mom found out the other day about my decision to OC more than CC from now on, her main concern that she expressed to my dad and I was that it would make someone might try to grab it. Luckily that's all. I still live at home since I work with/for my dad, so the only family that really knows right now is the immediate family. My dad's opinion to the situation is that I should look into getting a nice leather one instead of just a vinyl one. He's pretty supportive of it though and seems to even be a little impressed with my decision.

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Sorry to hijack, but you should get a high quality holster with some good retention.

    What do you carry?

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    I have a Walther p22 and a Beretta 9000. The Beretta's my main carry however.

  23. #23
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    That's a hard one for a holster.

    http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/Searc...p;pagenumber=1

    That's what I could come up with.

  24. #24
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    whoopingllama wrote:
    When my mom found out the other day about my decision to OC more than CC from now on, her main concern that she expressed to my dad and I was that it would make someone might try to grab it. Luckily that's all. I still live at home since I work with/for my dad, so the only family that really knows right now is the immediate family. My dad's opinion to the situation is that I should look into getting a nice leather one instead of just a vinyl one. He's pretty supportive of it though and seems to even be a little impressed with my decision.
    If you are going to OC, then you owe it to yourself and others to acquire a good retention holster. My personal recommendation is the Blackhawk Serpa. Give it some serious thought.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    The Serpa's look and seem really cool and all. However I have a Walther P22 and a Beretta 9000 with the Beretta being the primary carry choice. And there don't seem to be many if any holsters made for the Beretta, especially from the Serpa section. If you have any other suggestions. That'd be awesome.

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