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Thread: Why Carry?

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    Yesterday I had the good fortune to attend a class for caregiving. The class was also attended by a very traumatized lady who was attempting to help her adult son.For the last ten yearshe has beenblind and suffering from brain damage. He lives on his ownbut frequentlyhas bouts of anger and depression. Heoften refuses help and can be quite obnoxious about it. It seems her whole family has been severely disrupted by him. The story of how this came about is quite heart wrenching. I will try to repeat it here as well as I can remember.

    Arriving home at his Lakewood apartment from work this young man entered to find his girlfriend on the floor bleeding from severe head wounds and other trauma. As he bent over to try to assist her he was attacked from behind. His skull was crushed in several places and he was stabbed. Both of his eyes weregouged out. It was laterrevealed this was done so that in the unlikely event he lived he would not be able to identify the perpetrators, though they made every effort to make sure he and his girlfriendwere beaten to death. A neighbor hearing the commotion and the screams called the police. But the BGs got away.

    After months in a coma both victims lived. Both had crushed skulls and suffered permanent brain damage. He of course is blind. They hadtwo children who were never able to live with their parents again. And they of course are no longer together. Their lives and those of their family members have been miserable ever sense. Though they have their whole lives in front of them none of the people involved in this will everbe normal again. Any happiness they might achieve will always be tempered by the outcome of this event.

    Whenthe bad guys were finally caught. One was in jail in California for committing a similar crime there. They got ten years and are due to get out soon. The victims are concerned they may become targets and are living in fear. Who can blame they?

    What if the young man had been armed? What if the neighbor had been armed? What if the girlfriend was armed? What if 911 had responded sooner? There are no answers to these questions. But if you need a reason to carry and carry at home go back and read this again.



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    In this situation, it doesn't seem it would have helped the man at all. His first reaction was to go to the woman without regard to anyone else still in the enviornment. If he was carrying, he would have still been hit over the head and than the guy would have taken the gun and probably just shot him with it.

    Awful story, but a firearm wouldn't have helped the man... Now we don't know how it started for the woman, so it could have helped there...

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    I have a story of my own to share since we are on this topic.

    http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_ho.../13959260.html

    Dennis Troy Sargent was a very good high school friend of mine that moved to Las Vegas after a trip we took together to Vegas to have some fun. He, as I, had a CPL in Washington and we carried together, went to the range. He believed in self protection and was a advid martial artist. I remember him buying a Bereta 92.

    His company ( Albertsons ) didnt and doesnt allow employees to carry weapons. If they had, I can bet he and others would still be here with us. He left a 6 year son.

    Thanks



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    very good illustration.That is precisley why I put on my Para Companion as routinely as putting on a shirt.I never leave home without.If one of the people in this illustration would have been armed I believe further injuries could have been averted.At the very least given them a fighting chance.I hope I will never be in a situation requiring me to remove my weapon.But I never will be in a situation of not being able to defend myself and those around me if need be.I live in Seatac as well would love top get together for a coffee .I stop at the safeway on 116th everymorning for starbucks.Open carry in there all the time.No issues,A few questions even gave out a pamphlet or two this morning.Although I do get asked all the time "Are you a cop" which actually opens a door for coversation and explaining our rights and why I carry.I have found most people quite receptive.These illustrations are perfect examples of why we need to make sure no one takes our right to carry and defend oneself if the need arises. Wow.I used to shop at that store when I lived there.I didn,t know.I had to add .I was sitting with my coffee reading the paper.I have an 8 round extended magazine .This one fellow came up and whispered hey buddy your clip is falling out.It was just kind funny that he was trying to be so discreet.....

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    DEROS72
    Is that 116th and International or 216th and International?

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    David.Car wrote:
    In this situation, it doesn't seem it would have helped the man at all. His first reaction was to go to the woman without regard to anyone else still in the enviornment. If he was carrying, he would have still been hit over the head and than the guy would have taken the gun and probably just shot him with it.

    Awful story, but a firearm wouldn't have helped the man... Now we don't know how it started for the woman, so it could have helped there...
    If you are armed and have some training, you clear the room(s) first then tend to the wounded. At least that's how I was taught. It does no good for you to become one of the wounded too. Take out the bad guys then become a medic. I would say with training a firearm would have kept him from injury. Just the gun, no but a gun and training, yes it would have prevented his injuries.

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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    If you are armed and have some training, you clear the room(s) first then tend to the wounded. At least that's how I was taught. It does no good for you to become one of the wounded too. Take out the bad guys then become a medic. I would say with training a firearm would have kept him from injury. Just the gun, no but a gun and training, yes it would have prevented his injuries.
    That was my initial thought, than after re-reading the way the incident was described it didn't seem like there was something that would make him suspect an intruder. If you walked in your house, with no signs of a struggle (broken window or door lock) and just saw your wife on the floor bleeding, you might think she had fallen. Now, if he looked in the house and she was bleeding and the room looked trashed, and things were broken. Than he definitly should have been looking for the person who did it.

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    David.Car wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    If you are armed and have some training, you clear the room(s) first then tend to the wounded. At least that's how I was taught. It does no good for you to become one of the wounded too. Take out the bad guys then become a medic. I would say with training a firearm would have kept him from injury. Just the gun, no but a gun and training, yes it would have prevented his injuries.
    That was my initial thought, than after re-reading the way the incident was described it didn't seem like there was something that would make him suspect an intruder. If you walked in your house, with no signs of a struggle (broken window or door lock) and just saw your wife on the floor bleeding, you might think she had fallen. Now, if he looked in the house and she was bleeding and the room looked trashed, and things were broken. Than he definitly should have been looking for the person who did it.
    I definately don't think like you. If someone is down, unless I saw them slip and fall or whatever it was that put them on the floor and regardless of the conition of the room or house, I go to red alert, worse case senario. To do otherwise is to be looking to get my extra thick skull cracked.

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    My girlfriend has MS and frequently loses her balance. So for me to walk in the door and find her down would be unexpected but not at all shocking. Having read the OP, however, I think I would still immediately go to her aid but now WITH a heightened sense of awareness.

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    sorry that is 216th and international.Being semi retired I usually stop at the starbucks there around 9 or so in the am.

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    3/325 wrote:
    My girlfriend has MS and frequently loses her balance. So for me to walk in the door and find her down would be unexpected but not at all shocking. Having read the OP, however, I think I would still immediately go to her aid but now WITH a heightened sense of awareness.
    There are always exceptions to normal circumstanses. My wife is "normal, healthwise"and chances are if I walked in and somebody was bleeding on the floor it would be the bad guy. But there is no mention in the original post of the victum's gf having MS. That doesn't change my going "red" if someone is on the floor bleeding.

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    Newbie question. While I am sure that my husband would go "red," as Bear put it, if he walked in to find me bleeding on the floor, I don't know that I would. I'm the compassionate one, always looking to help someone more than to defend myself. So, while I know that lots of you are/were militaryor LEOand this comes second nature to you, it is not something that has been drilled into my head. So, without going to military boot camp, where does one get such training to rewire the brain to think a little more strategically? I'm not saying that I want to be looking for bad guys around every corner, but I'd like to be more instinctively defensive when the situation warranted it.

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    scarlett1125 wrote:
    Newbie question. While I am sure that my husband would go "red," as Bear put it, if he walked in to find me bleeding on the floor, I don't know that I would. I'm the compassionate one, always looking to help someone more than to defend myself. So, while I know that lots of you are/were militaryor LEOand this comes second nature to you, it is not something that has been drilled into my head. So, without going to military boot camp, where does one get such training to rewire the brain to think a little more strategically? I'm not saying that I want to be looking for bad guys around every corner, but I'd like to be more instinctively defensive when the situation warranted it.
    Compassion needs to be overcome by training. The old saw "You will do in an emergency what you have trained to do." It does nobody any good for you tojoin the wounded or the dead. It's better to take care of the bad guys, either down or gone andthen you can deal with the injuredwithout having to worry about anything except the injured. You need to remember you are not just defending yourself, but the injured also.

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    There are several good training facilities in western WA. The Firearms Academy of Seattle (FAS) comes to mind. Many more out there a Google search away.

    They will have classes that teach concepts beyond basic gun handling and marksmenship. Classes for weapon retention, low-light engagements, multiple attackers, etc.

    Once you have learned these concepts in practice you can't help put apply a certain percentage to your daily life.

    Why are these two guys splitting up so one's on each side of me? (Shifts position, discreetly covers weapon, makes eye contact...)

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    irfner wrote:
    Yesterday I had the good fortune to attend a class for caregiving. The class was also attended by a very traumatized lady who was attempting to help her adult son.For the last ten yearshe has beenblind and suffering from brain damage. He lives on his ownbut frequentlyhas bouts of anger and depression. Heoften refuses help and can be quite obnoxious about it. It seems her whole family has been severely disrupted by him. The story of how this came about is quite heart wrenching. I will try to repeat it here as well as I can remember.

    Arriving home at his Lakewood apartment from work this young man entered to find his girlfriend on the floor bleeding from severe head wounds and other trauma. As he bent over to try to assist her he was attacked from behind. His skull was crushed in several places and he was stabbed. Both of his eyes weregouged out. It was laterrevealed this was done so that in the unlikely event he lived he would not be able to identify the perpetrators, though they made every effort to make sure he and his girlfriendwere beaten to death. A neighbor hearing the commotion and the screams called the police. But the BGs got away.

    After months in a coma both victims lived. Both had crushed skulls and suffered permanent brain damage. He of course is blind. They hadtwo children who were never able to live with their parents again. And they of course are no longer together. Their lives and those of their family members have been miserable ever sense. Though they have their whole lives in front of them none of the people involved in this will everbe normal again. Any happiness they might achieve will always be tempered by the outcome of this event.

    Whenthe bad guys were finally caught. One was in jail in California for committing a similar crime there. They got ten years and are due to get out soon. The victims are concerned they may become targets and are living in fear. Who can blame they?

    What if the young man had been armed? What if the neighbor had been armed? What if the girlfriend was armed? What if 911 had responded sooner? There are no answers to these questions. But if you need a reason to carry and carry at home go back and read this again.

    Oh my God that is just too bad....

    now it's 905pm and I have my J frame 357 Mag in my pocket. Had it thereall day and forgot all about it, until sitting inchurch tonight and sat my son on my leg. This gun is God sent.

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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    3/325 wrote:
    My girlfriend has MS and frequently loses her balance. So for me to walk in the door and find her down would be unexpected but not at all shocking. Having read the OP, however, I think I would still immediately go to her aid but now WITH a heightened sense of awareness.
    There are always exceptions to normal circumstanses. My wife is "normal, healthwise"and chances are if I walked in and somebody was bleeding on the floor it would be the bad guy. But there is no mention in the original post of the victum's gf having MS. That doesn't change my going "red" if someone is on the floor bleeding.
    Yes, I was more or less commenting on my own situation. My point was really the last sentence: In the future if I find her on the floor I'll be more wary as I step in to help.

    And I'm glad to hear that your wife is in good health, I hope she stays that way for a very long time.

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    3/325 wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    3/325 wrote:
    My girlfriend has MS and frequently loses her balance. So for me to walk in the door and find her down would be unexpected but not at all shocking. Having read the OP, however, I think I would still immediately go to her aid but now WITH a heightened sense of awareness.
    There are always exceptions to normal circumstanses. My wife is "normal, healthwise"and chances are if I walked in and somebody was bleeding on the floor it would be the bad guy. But there is no mention in the original post of the victum's gf having MS. That doesn't change my going "red" if someone is on the floor bleeding.
    Yes, I was more or less commenting on my own situation. My point was really the last sentence: In the future if I find her on the floor I'll be more wary as I step in to help.

    And I'm glad to hear that your wife is in good health, I hope she stays that way for a very long time.
    I too hope she stays healthy. I almost lost her last year do to a tumor.

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    It is hard to say what the scene looked like. My understanding is the girl was pretty messed up. So it would have looked like more than a fall. But still going to her first is understandable. If the neighbor was armed and had intervened that might have helped or there might be a third victim. If the girl had been armed... who knows. But I will keep my gun closer at hand now because we may not be as safe in our homes as we think. And like a boy scout I want to 'Be Prepared'.

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    irfner wrote:
    It is hard to say what the scene looked like. My understanding is the girl was pretty messed up. So it would have looked like more than a fall. But still going to her first is understandable. If the neighbor was armed and had intervened that might have helped or there might be a third victim. If the girl had been armed... who knows. But I will keep my gun closer at hand now because we may not be as safe in our homes as we think. And like a boy scout I want to 'Be Prepared'.
    I have notbelieved my home was safe for some time now. Starting about 5 years ago we have had home invasions out here in rural America. Probably why there are a pair of self defense shotguns and several pistols and one semi-auto rifle ready to go in the house.

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    Agreed. I'm sure I would have done the same thing, but I hope not. Everytime you get on a plane you are told...."in the event of a...blah..blah..blah..put your oxygen mask on before you put your childs on." You have to make sure you are safe before youeven think about trying to help someone else.
    Sharpender
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    Starting about 5 years ago we have had home invasions out here in rural America. Probably why there are a pair of self defense shotguns and several pistols and one semi-auto rifle ready to go in the house.
    And Union, WA is rural!

    Years ago, before I found Washington Island, I dreamed about Union or Hoodsport and buying a big chunk of scrubland and an AirStream. Then I'd back the trailer into the middle of the lot until it couldn't go any farther and announce my address as GD, Union, WA. Union was close enough to Hoodsport to buy wine there.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    Starting about 5 years ago we have had home invasions out here in rural America. Probably why there are a pair of self defense shotguns and several pistols and one semi-auto rifle ready to go in the house.
    And Union, WA is rural!

    Years ago, before I found Washington Island, I dreamed about Union or Hoodsport and buying a big chunk of scrubland and an AirStream. Then I'd back the trailer into the middle of the lot until it couldn't go any farther and announce my address as GD, Union, WA. Union was close enough to Hoodsport to buy wine there.
    Admittedly the area is growing but I still have deer wander thru my yard and it is real quiet at night except when the tourist raise hell. We are considering a more remote area for retirement (if she ever does). When we moved her 25+ years ago the were a total of 600 year around residents inside the Fire District, it is now closer to 2000, mostly in Alderbrook. But I'm 30 minutes from the Olympic National Forest and next to nobody lives there.

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    I knew a gal in Cal.That was a victim of a home invasion.Beaten ,robbed and left for dead.She is know a firm supporter of 2A.It can happen anywhere ,anytime.

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