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Thread: Good story about open carry

  1. #1
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    Open Carry - Is America Ready?
    By Skip Coryell


    Three years ago I wrote the following in my book titled Blood in the Streets: Concealed Carry and the OK Corral:

    "I teach my students that there is no advantage to anyone knowing that they are carrying a concealed pistol."

    And then later on in the book I said:

    "In my very humble opinion, in most scenarios, open carry is a bad decision. Open carry is stupid carry. Concealed carry is smart carry. Keep it hidden. Keep it smart."

    For the past 8 years I have consistently taught in my classes that open carry is a very risky proposition, but I am starting to re-evaluate the severity of that position. I am always gathering new data, new experiences and new technology and then applying it to my everyday life.. I think this is the best way to go, and I'm not so dogmatic as to think that nothing ever changes. Some things change, some things don't.

    In my book I describe two reasons why open carry is stupid carry.

    1. There is no tactical advantage to open carry.
    2. It scares people. Michigan is not ready for open carry.

    I believe that the first reason is still valid and probably always will be. Open carry gives away the element of surprise and I don't want to do that. Here's what I wrote in the book, and I still hold to it:

    "As a former Marine Infantryman, I understand that the most important asset in a battle is the element of surprise. I know full well that if I can retain that equalizing "surprise element", then I can overcome most other odds, be they superior firepower or superior numbers. If I open carry, that advantage is gone. But if I carry concealed, I have a greater number of options that are open to me. I can wait and see what happens. I can duck behind cover. I can draw my firearm and surprise the bad guys with a hail of deadly gunfire. I can wait for them to make a mistake, then act decisively and with conviction."

    However, despite all that, something happened a few days ago which has caused me to re-evaluate my strong stance against open carry. Let me tell you what happened.A friend of mine came to me, one of my long-time Second Amendment activist buddies, and told me that he was going to walk through downtown main street, daring the Chief of Police to arrest him. My first thought was: this doesn't sound like a good idea. In fact, several years ago I had spoken with the Chief in that town and I knew that he was dead-set against open carry and even against concealed carry. Once, in a private conversation in his office, I asked him what he would do if I were to walk through town wearing a pistol and holster. He told me in no uncertain terms that he would arrest me. I believed him.

    So when my friend came to me, I was concerned about his plan. I was convinced that he would be arrested. But then he asked me to join him and I didn't have the heart to tell him no. He was too good a friend and we'd been through the political activist trenches during the concealed carry debate, so we started making plans for the event.

    Now you have to understand that I seldom do things small. It's just not in my personality. Besides, if I was going to walk through a city with a pistol strapped to my side, I wanted company. So I told a few friends, and they told their friends and then their friends told their friends - and then it hit the internet - all over the country. When I told Ted Nugent he was all for it and said to put it on tednugent.com, which I did. >From there it migrated to other websites and soon I was getting emails from people all across the country.

    This two-man event was growing out of control. And then the media started to call.

    I figured since I was going to be interviewed by channel 3, channel 8, and the Detroit Free Press, that I might want to know something about open carry before I actually did it. So I emailed the guys at http://www.opencarry.org and they were very helpful, pointing me to videos of previous open carry events and other news sources.. But I have to tell you, that even after I'd educated myself, I was still as nervous as a frog in a blender.

    Just to be safe, we contacted the County Prosecutor, the State Police and the State Attorney General, just to make sure that what we were doing was legal. To my surprise, they all agreed that it was. They even pointed me to several legal sources: Attorney General Opinion 7101 on brandishing, and MCL 750.234d. I was reassured, but still nervous. Just to make sure, we recruited an attorney to attend our event, just in case.

    All this happened in the span of four days, and on the night before, I didn't get to sleep until 4:30 AM. I emailed Ted Nugent for moral support and asked his advice. He emailed back in typical Tedlike fashion:

    "YOU are in charge!! carryon! sincerity delivers the day. Godspeed"

    Quite frankly, that's what he always says. Be sincere! Speak from the heart! Take control! He's such an alpha male. I secretly wished that he could fly on up and walk with me on this thing, but he had some lame excuse about a concert tour in Canada.

    So I went to the event the next day with my wife and three kids. On the way there I called Dave and asked him how many people had come. He said he was still there alone. That was less than a half hour before the event. It was then I began to curse myself for being stupid enough to think that others would put themselves at risk alongside me. To top it all off, the kids were fighting with each other in the car and my nerves were tighter than a gnat's butt stretched over a barrel.

    We got there and I saw TV cameras out front. I kicked into public relations activist overdrive and gave three interviews before even entering the building. When I got inside I was shocked to see the room was packed with about 50 Second Amendment supporters. Some of them I knew, others I didn't.. But it was good to see them all. They were my backup.

    I talked to the troops, telling them to keep smiling, say good things, and to not touch their firearms no matter what. Number one rule: 1. Pistols never clear leather. Number two rule: 2. Be nice, smile, live the golden rule..

    Larry came up and told me that there was a group of anti's who might give us trouble. I thought to myself, Great! Just what we need. Idiots bent on making us look bad! I told everyone not to talk to them, just let them make fools of themselves. Any altercation would undoubtedly be blamed on us and defeat our mission which was to educate the public that open carry was both legal and constitutional and that gun owners need not be feared by the general population.

    We walked outside, the cameras following our every move. We walked down 2 blocks to city hall. Shopkeepers came out of their stores to watch, and people on the street took pictures with their cell phones.

    A strange thing happened to me. I was no longer nervous. In fact, I was downright happy, gleeful even. It felt good to no longer have to hide my pistol behind a shirt. At that moment, while walking down main street with all eyes watching, I felt more like a free man than at any other point in my life.

    We walked two blocks back to the county courthouse and gathered at the veteran's memorial in front of the fountain. I told them the story of how Dave and I had crashed our first County Gun Board meeting back in 1999, subsequently opening it up to the public. Then I gave a 5-minute speech. The Detroit Free Press called it a red-meat speech, but I'm not even sure what that means. Here's a small excerpt:

    "We have been given a birthright of freedom, and that birthright was passed on to each one of us from our father and our father's father and his father before him. The right to keep and bear arms, the right to protect our families, the right to ward off the wolves is as old as creation itself. It was infused into our spiritual DNA, into the everlasting consciousness of humanity and it forever runs deep in the race."

    I like red meat. Afterwards, people lingered, not wanting the moment to end.. An hour later people were still there. Finally, I left, totally exhausted and my spirit fulfilled.

    What we had done was risky, but the risk had paid off. Barry County was now open to "open carry". I'm glad we did it.

    So, I find myself re-evaluating my stance. Obviously, concealed carry is still the best tactical choice. Nonetheless, I suspect that many in America are ready for more. I believe that open carry, when properly practiced, is a useful tool in educating and desensitizing the public to firearm usage. For decades the anti's have taught that Guns equal crime; therefore, gun owners equal criminals.

    That couldn't be further from the truth, and last week in a small town in Michigan, 40 plus gun owners proved it.





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    INCREDIBLE!

    What a moving story. I have several friends that curse the very ground i stand on because i believe in open carry. It is my plan to print and pass your story onto them. IF you can make it out, please come join us in Warren. I would very much like to shake your hand.

  3. #3
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    SKIP DID YOU CHANGE YOUR USER NAME? I thought you lived near Holland?

    "As a former Marine Infantryman, I understand that the most important asset in a battle is the element of surprise[/b]. I know full well that if I can retain that equalizing "surprise element", then I can overcome most other odds, be they superior firepower or superior numbers. If I open carry, that advantage is gone. But if I carry concealed, I have a greater number of options that are open to me. I can wait and see what happens. I can duck behind cover. I can draw my firearm and surprise the bad guys with a hail of deadly gunfire. I can wait for them to make a mistake, then act decisively and with conviction."
    My comments in bold: As an infantryman you were often in an offensive mode. Open carry is defensive. If you were to defend a castle and had only two cannons, wouldn’t it be tactically advantageous to paint several logs the same size and color (historical precedent) as your two cannons thereby giving the impression that you are stronger than you are? Similar examples pertain to open carry vs Concealed carry. If I want to sneak up close and kill it may be better to conceal. If I want to avoid any kind of confrontation OC may be better by stating to all to see “KEEP OF THE GRASS”.

    [/b]However, despite all that, something happened a few days ago which has caused me to re-evaluate my strong stance against open carry. Let me tell you what happened. A friend of mine came to me, (Your friendwas a contributor on opencarry.org Michigan page and decided to open carry in Hastings based on the meticulous information available here.)[/b]Chief in that town and I knew that he was dead-set against open carry and even against concealed carry. (Like many police chiefs, until they understand the law.)[/b] I was convinced[/b] that he would be arrested. (There is a big difference to being arrested and being convicted. Thousands of innocent people are arrested in this country everyday, nothing new there; the difference with OC is that the law is on your side not the Police.) [/b]But then he asked me to join him and I didn't have the heart to tell him no. He was too good a friend and we'd been through the political activist trenches during the concealed carry debate, so we started making plans for the event.

    When I told Ted Nugent (The same Ted Nugent that has been against OCing, for years strange.) [/b]he was all for it and said to put it on tednugent.com, which I did. >From there it migrated to other websites and soon I was getting emails from people all across the country.

    Just to be safe, (Always good to be safe, but you gained no new information that you couldn’t have found at this site.)[/b] we contacted the County Prosecutor, the State Police and the State Attorney General, just to make sure that what we were doing was legal. To my surprise[/b], (WOW you mean we were actually right, I wish you would have gotten all this in writing so we could add their comments to our data base.)[/b] [/b]they all agreed that it was. They even pointed me to several legal sources: Attorney General Opinion 7101 on brandishing, and MCL 750.234d. (ALL of which were already on our site.)[/b] I was reassured, but still nervous. Just to make sure, we recruited an attorney to attend our event, just in case.

    A strange thing happened to me. I was no longer nervous. In fact, I was downright happy, gleeful even. It felt good to no longer have to hide my pistol behind a shirt. At that moment, while walking down main street with all eyes watching, I felt more like a free man than at any other point in my life. (I agree it’s a great feeling)[/b]

    What we had done was risky (You mean like the hundreds of our members that do it every day, most in much larger cities than Hastings.), but the risk had paid off. Barry County was now open to "open carry". (AS ARE THE REST OF THE COUNTIES in Michigan)[/b] I'm glad we did it.

    So, I find myself re-evaluating my stance. Obviously, concealed carry is still the best tactical choice (YOUR OPINION, Please state it as such, or provide citations for your comments*).[/b] Nonetheless, I suspect that many in America are ready for more. (OPENCARRY.ORG gets over 600,000 hits a month does that say anything?) [/b]I believe that open carry, when properly practiced, is a useful tool in educating and desensitizing the public to firearm usage. (Hey, it’s not a bad tool for self-defense too.) [/b]For decades the anti's have taught that Guns equal crime; therefore, gun owners equal criminals.

    That couldn't be further from the truth, and last week in a small town in Michigan, 40 plus gun owners proved it.

    I love this quote on COMMON SENSE.[/b]

    [/b]*On common sense: Randy Wayne White wrote in his novel Captiva [/i]“It is a character standard from folklore in which “good old common sense” is an essential bedrock ingredient. But too often “common sense” is a safe harbor of ignorance and an excuse for intellectual laziness. They don’t need the facts because they already know the truth—their common sense has spared them the effort of investigation or thought.[/b]
    [font=Arial][size=2]
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Great story! Thank you for your efforts!

    I really admire that you were able to change your mind based on new information.

    Keep on keepin' on.

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    One of the best reads on this site to date. It seems, though, that a resonder to the post is amight jealous, that you, Skip, beat him to the punch, press and all. He needs to get over his quest for spearheading the Michigan movment. It is not a one -person operation. Skip is a true exampleof a person that was onceagainst OC. He educated himself, and nowhe ishelping others....... Please get off the SOAPBOX, and become one of the rank and file,not only on this site, but MGO as well.Again, great reading from SKIP, as I expect more to come from HIM in the future!!

  6. #6
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    UpNorth wrote:
    One of the best reads on this site to date. It seems, though, that a resonder to the post is amight jealous, that you, Skip, beat him to the punch, press and all. He needs to get over his quest for spearheading the Michigan movment. It is not a one -person operation. Skip is a true exampleof a person that was onceagainst OC. He educated himself, and nowhe ishelping others....... Please get off the SOAPBOX, and become one of the rank and file,not only on this site, but MGO as well.Again, great reading from SKIP, as I expect more to come from HIM in the future!!
    Not sure what you are insinuating. If you read all of Skips post you will see he has NOT changed his mind on open carry with this statement "Obviously, concealed carry is still the best tactical choice." I don't like hypocrisy. This was a political stunt to embarrass the local chief who is running for sheriff. I didn't mind that, as the "event" was helping inform the public about the legality of open carry. I was even there. But don't think it was about open carry. I just didn't agree with the speeches and media alerts. I thinkSkip is more a publicity hound then an ideal OC advocate. He saw a way to help the incumbent sheriff and perhaps sell a few books.

    You seem to think I have any control over this educational site, I don't. I volunteer my time and effort into something I believe in.No one is an official leader here, I help where I can. Lots of get-togethers are being planned with out my help, and that's as it should be. But I will add that the core group of members we have that have been at this for about 2 years have done more in regards to open carry in Michigan than the few that you mention. I suggest you help where you can and spend some time learning the history of thisMichigan group.

    As for "beat to the punch", I really don't know what you mean. This group has had open carry get togethers since last December, we don't call the media to get press coverage, we started the get togethers to show our members that were reluctant to open carry for fear of arrest, that we were practicing what we preach. That we were OCing in public and not arrested. The one press release we did have was from the National leaders not from us. We started slowly and are trying to build a grass roots informational forum. I would say that in the last few months the site membership has grown (tripled)at a good pace, the word is getting out there and if I had a small part in that I'm glad.

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    UpNorth wrote:
    One of the best reads on this site to date. It seems, though, that a resonder to the post is amight jealous, that you, Skip, beat him to the punch, press and all. He needs to get over his quest for spearheading the Michigan movment. It is not a one -person operation. Skip is a true exampleof a person that was onceagainst OC. He educated himself, and nowhe ishelping others....... Please get off the SOAPBOX, and become one of the rank and file,not only on this site, but MGO as well.Again, great reading from SKIP, as I expect more to come from HIM in the future!!
    Not sure what you are insinuating. If you read all of Skips post you will see he has NOT changed his mind on open carry with this statement "Obviously, concealed carry is still the best tactical choice." I don't like hypocrisy. This was a political stunt to embarrass the local chief who is running for sheriff. I didn't mind that, as the "event" was helping inform the public about the legality of open carry. I was even there. But don't think it was about open carry. I just didn't agree with the speeches and media alerts. I thinkSkip is more a publicity hound then an ideal OC advocate. He saw a way to help the incumbent sheriff and perhaps sell a few books.

    You seem to think I have any control over this educational site, I don't. I volunteer my time and effort into something I believe in.No one is an official leader here, I help where I can. Lots of get-togethers are being planned with out my help, and that's as it should be. But I will add that the core group of members we have that have been at this for about 2 years have done more in regards to open carry in Michigan than the few that you mention. I suggest you help where you can and spend some time learning the history of thisMichigan group.

    As for "beat to the punch", I really don't know what you mean. This group has had open carry get toghters since last December, we don't call the media to get press coverage, we started the get togethers to show our members that were reluctant to open carry for fear of arrest, that we were practicing what we preach. That we were OCing in public and not arrested. The one press release we did have was from the National leaders not from us. We started slowly and are trying to build a grass roots informational forum. I would say that in the last few months the site membership has grown (tripled)at a good pace, the word is getting out there and if I had a small part in that I glad.

    We all have our own agenda. Myself included. I will ask Skip to respond to this thread, in particular, the reason you state the Hastings event was started for in the first place.

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    I don't think thats it at all.

    The point is Skip and the 50 people (-3) did this to discredit the Chief1st and to educate 2nd. Yet he wants people to believe that he took the highroad and is in some way a pioneer when in fact that was his first time OC'ing and he still feels it [OC] is tactically unsound.

    He should really be thanking John and Mike (owners of opencarry.org) and Venator(Brian) and WARCHILD (Jerry)for their contributions to the opencarry movement both nation wide and here in Michigan.

    Now I'm not saying that what he did was somehow steal the limelight, I couldn't care less about that. And I hope he does stick around and continue with the fight to make open carry mainstream.

    On a side note I think it's funny that he name drops Ted Nugent because from everything I have ever heard Ted is vehemently against open carry.

    If Ted has changed his views on OC I would very much like to hear it (or read it) right from the horses mouth.

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    UpNorth wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    UpNorth wrote:
    One of the best reads on this site to date. It seems, though, that a resonder to the post is amight jealous, that you, Skip, beat him to the punch, press and all. He needs to get over his quest for spearheading the Michigan movment. It is not a one -person operation. Skip is a true exampleof a person that was onceagainst OC. He educated himself, and nowhe ishelping others....... Please get off the SOAPBOX, and become one of the rank and file,not only on this site, but MGO as well.Again, great reading from SKIP, as I expect more to come from HIM in the future!!
    Not sure what you are insinuating. If you read all of Skips post you will see he has NOT changed his mind on open carry with this statement "Obviously, concealed carry is still the best tactical choice." I don't like hypocrisy. This was a political stunt to embarrass the local chief who is running for sheriff. I didn't mind that, as the "event" was helping inform the public about the legality of open carry. I was even there. But don't think it was about open carry. I just didn't agree with the speeches and media alerts. I thinkSkip is more a publicity hound then an ideal OC advocate. He saw a way to help the incumbent sheriff and perhaps sell a few books.

    You seem to think I have any control over this educational site, I don't. I volunteer my time and effort into something I believe in.No one is an official leader here, I help where I can. Lots of get-togethers are being planned with out my help, and that's as it should be. But I will add that the core group of members we have that have been at this for about 2 years have done more in regards to open carry in Michigan than the few that you mention. I suggest you help where you can and spend some time learning the history of thisMichigan group.

    As for "beat to the punch", I really don't know what you mean. This group has had open carry get toghters since last December, we don't call the media to get press coverage, we started the get togethers to show our members that were reluctant to open carry for fear of arrest, that we were practicing what we preach. That we were OCing in public and not arrested. The one press release we did have was from the National leaders not from us. We started slowly and are trying to build a grass roots informational forum. I would say that in the last few months the site membership has grown (tripled)at a good pace, the word is getting out there and if I had a small part in that I glad.

    We all have our own agenda. Myself included. I will ask Skip to respond to this thread, in particular, the reason you state the Hastings event was started for in the first place.


    Press Release – For Immediate Distribution



    In response to the Police Chief of Hastings, Chief Sarver, law-abiding
    citizens will be walking down Main Street in Hastings open carrying.
    Chief Sarver in response to a letter to the editor responded by saying it was
    brandishing, a misdemeanor. He failed to say that the Michigan Attorney
    General’s office wrote him telling him that open carry is not against the law. We are asking anyone who is interested in furthering their Second
    Amendment rights to join us on Thursday, July 24th at 4 PM. We will be
    meeting at Richie's Coffee Shop (146 W. State Street, Hastings, MI 49058).
    An attorney that supports your right to keep and bear arms will be joining us.

    It is important to note that this is a peaceful demonstration of our constitutional rights and everyone must be on their best behavior. All well mannered, law-abiding citizens are welcome to join us. Please RSVP if you can. Please do not dress like a paramilitary organization. Wear ordinary clothing that fits in well with the general public.

    If you have any questions you can contact me at dstevens@iserv.net.

    David Stevens
    Barry County Citizens for Second Amendment and Firearm Rights (B-SAFR)
    The reason for the march is clear to me. Most of the people never even heard about opencarry.org and were shocked to learn that we here on OC.org have been OC'ing for months and even years.

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    All that being said, I don't think this type of bickering is helpfully to our cause and I would like to see it end here and now.

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    dougwg wrote:
    All that being said, I don't think this type of bickering is helpfully to our cause and I would like to see it end here and now.
    Doug, while I agree with you 100% of the time on the MGO site, I think that Skip needs to have the opportunity to respond to Brain's response, much like he did to mine. I have sent Skip a PM, asking for a repsonse to his statement. Let's give him a chance, before we shut the door.

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    UpNorth wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    I thinkSkip is more a publicity hound then an ideal OC advocate. He saw a way to help the incumbent sheriff and perhaps sell a few books.

    We all have our own agenda. Myself included. I will ask Skip to respond to this thread, in particular, the reason you state the Hastings event was started for in the first place.
    Selling a few books? If you were there, you know that I gave away 10 free copies of "Blood in the Streets" at considerable expense to myself.

    The incumbent Sheriff is an NRA Training Counselor and teaches at all my CPL classes. He supports open carry and is probably the most pro-RKBA Sheriff in Michigan. On the other hand, his oponent tried to pass a local ordinance banning firesarms on all city property. Gosh! Why would I want to help him?

    Truth is this. He doesn't need my help. Last election he unseated a firmly entrenched anti-gun Sheriff by almost a 2 to 1 margin. He's expected to win even bigger this time around.

    For me, this was not a political stunt. This was real. And I'll be doing more of these all across the state. Lead, follow, or get out of the way!

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    That is acceptable. But we should all shake hands and move on and keep fighting after he responds.

    We're all on the same side and we all better act like it if we are to be taken seriously.

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    I don't know about the tactical advantage thing. For one, the word tactical is defined as "of or related to military tactics". I'm no former or current soldier, but doesn't the military tend to open carry?

    Additionally, most criminals do not want to have a murder on their conscience, let alone their criminal record. Therefor, OCing is often a crime deterrent, because rather than know they'll have to kill you, they'd rather go elsewhere usually. Take for example the bank robber that saw the OCer then ran for it. Or the punks here in Phoenix that I walk by who are obviously up to little or no good who either get scared and go elsewhere because they think I'm a cop, or because they're scared I might intervene if they do something stupid. It's happened more than you might think when I walk and jog around Phoenix.

    In Detroit, people walk around with their hands in their pockets so you don't know if they are armed or not. Imagine if Detroiters carried openly, so you knew they were armed. I think it would make Detroit a much more friendly place. People might say hello to each other more often.

    All that crap aside, I am very, very impressed and pleased by what you accomplished. You somehow gathered more attention than we had previously all working together. Nice job!:celebrate
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    SkipCoryell wrote:
    UpNorth wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    I thinkSkip is more a publicity hound then an ideal OC advocate. He saw a way to help the incumbent sheriff and perhaps sell a few books.

    We all have our own agenda. Myself included. I will ask Skip to respond to this thread, in particular, the reason you state the Hastings event was started for in the first place.
    Selling a few books? If you were there, you know that I gave away 10 free copies of "Blood in the Streets" at considerable expense to myself.

    The incumbent Sheriff is an NRA Training Counselor and teaches at all my CPL classes. He supports open carry and is probably the most pro-RKBA Sheriff in Michigan. On the other hand, his oponent tried to pass a local ordinance banning firesarms on all city property. Gosh! Why would I want to help him?

    Truth is this. He doesn't need my help. Last election he unseated a firmly entrenched anti-gun Sheriff by almost a 2 to 1 margin. He's expected to win even bigger this time around.

    For me, this was not a political stunt. This was real. And I'll be doing more of these all across the state. Lead, follow, or get out of the way!
    I'll get out of the way.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  16. #16
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    SkipCoryell wrote:
    UpNorth wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    I thinkSkip is more a publicity hound then an ideal OC advocate. He saw a way to help the incumbent sheriff and perhaps sell a few books.

    We all have our own agenda. Myself included. I will ask Skip to respond to this thread, in particular, the reason you state the Hastings event was started for in the first place.
    Selling a few books? If you were there, you know that I gave away 10 free copies of "Blood in the Streets" at considerable expense to myself.

    The incumbent Sheriff is an NRA Training Counselor and teaches at all my CPL classes. He supports open carry and is probably the most pro-RKBA Sheriff in Michigan. On the other hand, his oponent tried to pass a local ordinance banning firesarms on all city property. Gosh! Why would I want to help him?

    Truth is this. He doesn't need my help. Last election he unseated a firmly entrenched anti-gun Sheriff by almost a 2 to 1 margin. He's expected to win even bigger this time around.

    For me, this was not a political stunt. This was real. And I'll be doing more of these all across the state. Lead, follow, or get out of the way!
    How about we walk side by side and stand togather? I think it better than leading or following.

  17. #17
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    SkipCoryell wrote:
    For me, this was not a political stunt. This was real. And I'll be doing more of these all across the state. Lead, follow, or get out of the way!
    Even though you don't believe OC is an advantage, I don't see the point then. Why encourage something you don't really believe in? I just don't understand that.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  18. #18
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    I should comment on this as well.

    "On a side note I think it's funny that he name drops Ted Nugent because from everything I have ever heard Ted is vehemently against open carry.

    If Ted has changed his views on OC I would very much like to hear it (or read it) right from the horses mouth."


    Anyone who knows me knows that I'm the former State Director of Ted Nugent United Sportsmen of America and RKBA events are not new to me. As far as name-dropping Ted Nugent, that's absurd. He's a good friend of mine so I refer to him the way I refer to my other friends.

    As far as Ted being against open carry, that's also absurd. I consulted with Ted before I ran this event and he told me to post it on his own website tednugent.com.
    Ted was very excited about this event and he supports you 100%. All of you are doing the Lord's work and should be proud. Ted can't tell you himself because he's just too busy.

    Speaking of busy, I have to run my son to soccer camp, then meet my wife for lunch.
    We're having Chinese food today.

    I'll try to respond to as much as I can, but please understand that I'm very busy myself.

    And just for the record, I believe that open carry is the next RKBA wave to hit the shoreline and I plan on storming the beaches with the rest of you guys.

    God bless and see you at the next march.

    Skip Coryell
    www.mwtac.com
    www.whitefeatherpress.com


  19. #19
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    "Even though you don't believe OC is an advantage, I don't see the point then. Why encourage something you don't really believe in? I just don't understand that."

    Sometimes it's an advantage and sometimes it's not. It should be an individual choice, not one that you make for me.

    Have a great day.

    Skip

  20. #20
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    SkipCoryell wrote:
    "Even though you don't believe OC is an advantage, I don't see the point then. Why encourage something you don't really believe in? I just don't understand that."

    Sometimes it's an advantage and sometimes it's not. It should be an individual choice, not one that you make for me.

    Have a great day.

    Skip
    So say that. It can be an advantage. That's not what you implied in your article. That's all I wanted to hear you say. I'm not saying everyone should OC. I don't care if they do or not. My whole point on this site is to inform people that it is LEGAL TO DO SO, not that they should or shouldn't. I just want to be free to OC if I want and not have the police bother me when I do. A simple request really.

    My question was if you don't believe OC has an advantage why support it? Since you have stated that there may be advantages to OC, all is well.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  21. #21
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Skip, please don't take offense to what I posted. I was not trying to put you down or anything.

    But I would very much like to hear from Ted on this, right from him. It's only takes a few minutes to register here and type a few words.

    As far as OC vs CC, both have their places and Venator as I and everyone here have always recognized this as a fact.

    Remember, we have been on this bandwagon for some time now. These are not new ideas and thoughts to us.

    Welcome to OCDO



  22. #22
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    I don't see why we have to reinvent the wheel. This is a national website devoted to OC. If someone wants to promote OC in Michigan, then this would be the logical place to do it. The site has good information, many members have lots of experience in OCingand are highly motivated, and it's a good platform for organizing events. Use the site, it's here for everyone interested in OC.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Generaldet's Avatar
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    Did someone really just say "lead, follow or get ou of the way"? I thought that line was only used in overdramatic macho bulls*** movies. I'm sorry I mean no disrespect to anyone, honestly. I've just always found that line to me extremely hilarious and ridiculous. Sorry, just me I'll drop it.

  24. #24
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    :shrug:

    I still like the saying.

  25. #25
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    Venator wrote:
    SkipCoryell wrote:
    "Even though you don't believe OC is an advantage, I don't see the point then. Why encourage something you don't really believe in? I just don't understand that."

    Sometimes it's an advantage and sometimes it's not. It should be an individual choice, not one that you make for me.

    Have a great day.

    Skip
    So say that. It can be an advantage. That's not what you implied in your article. That's all I wanted to hear you say. I'm not saying everyone should OC. I don't care if they do or not. My whole point on this site is to inform people that it is LEGAL TO DO SO, not that they should or shouldn't. I just want to be free to OC if I want and not have the police bother me when I do. A simple request really.

    My question was if you don't believe OC has an advantage why support it? Since you have stated that there may be advantages to OC, all is well.
    Please let this be the end of this bickering. It hurts the cause. Polite discourse is a good thing as we move forward, and there will be growing pains as the movement expands.

    Skip told us that last Thursday was his first real experience OC’ing. Sure, he will still have some biases, but give him time to overcome them. He also told us that last Thursday’s parade had changed his mind about OC, and I believe him. Just because he hasn’t changed his mind about every aspect of the topic doesn’t make him less honorable. Prejudices take time to adjust.

    OTOH, Brian has a point about stating an opinion in such a way that it implies fact. People often parrot the same old line “there is no tactical advantage to OC”, and the truth is that as an end-all-be-all, it’s just a load of bunk. Like Skip said, there are times for it, and times when it isn’t prudent, and that is for each individual to decide.

    Skip is used to leading the fight for gun rights wherever he goes. I hope that he understands that in this case, if he wants to lead, then he has a lot of catching up to do. That isn’t to imply that he hasn’t paid his dues, but that he just hasn’t garnered enough information or experience yet on a topic that some of us have been studying and experiencing for years. (Something tells me that he's a fast learner in these matters).

    This is just my objective opinion, but I think Brian gets a little animated when people come up with reasons why others shouldn’t OC, or that it’s a bad idea. If one were to stop and think about how often those of us who have been involved in this movement have heard and refuted those claims, one might begin to understand the frustration. We've heard these arguments before countless times, and after a while it's easy to loose patience for what we who have been studying the topic know to be baseless.

    Since we’re on the topic of tired clichés,

    “Can’t we all just get along?”


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