• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Good story about open carry

dougwg

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
2,443
Location
MOC Charter Member Westland, Michigan, USA
imported post

Skip, please don't take offense to what I posted. I was not trying to put you down or anything.

But I would very much like to hear from Ted on this, right from him. It's only takes a few minutes to register here and type a few words. ;)

As far as OC vs CC, both have their places and Venator as I and everyone here have always recognized this as a fact.

Remember, we have been on this bandwagon for some time now. These are not new ideas and thoughts to us.

Welcome to OCDO
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

I don't see why we have to reinvent the wheel. This is a national website devoted to OC. If someone wants to promote OC in Michigan, then this would be the logical place to do it. The site has good information, many members have lots of experience in OCingand are highly motivated, and it's a good platform for organizing events. Use the site, it's here for everyone interested in OC.
 

Generaldet

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
1,073
Location
President, CLSD, Inc., Oxford, Michigan, USA
imported post

Did someone really just say "lead, follow or get ou of the way"? I thought that line was only used in overdramatic macho bulls*** movies. I'm sorry I mean no disrespect to anyone, honestly. I've just always found that line to me extremely hilarious and ridiculous. Sorry, just me I'll drop it.
 

ghostrider

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
1,416
Location
Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
imported post

Venator wrote:
SkipCoryell wrote:
"Even though you don't believe OC is an advantage, I don't see the point then. Why encourage something you don't really believe in? I just don't understand that."

Sometimes it's an advantage and sometimes it's not. It should be an individual choice, not one that you make for me.

Have a great day.

Skip

So say that. It can be an advantage. That's not what you implied in your article. That's all I wanted to hear you say. I'm not saying everyone should OC. I don't care if they do or not. My whole point on this site is to inform people that it is LEGAL TO DO SO, not that they should or shouldn't. I just want to be free to OC if I want and not have the police bother me when I do. A simple request really.

My question was if you don't believe OC has an advantage why support it? Since you have stated that there may be advantages to OC, all is well.
Please let this be the end of this bickering. It hurts the cause. Polite discourse is a good thing as we move forward, and there will be growing pains as the movement expands.

Skip told us that last Thursday was his first real experience OC’ing. Sure, he will still have some biases, but give him time to overcome them. He also told us that last Thursday’s parade had changed his mind about OC, and I believe him. Just because he hasn’t changed his mind about every aspect of the topic doesn’t make him less honorable. Prejudices take time to adjust.

OTOH, Brian has a point about stating an opinion in such a way that it implies fact. People often parrot the same old line “there is no tactical advantage to OC”, and the truth is that as an end-all-be-all, it’s just a load of bunk. Like Skip said, there are times for it, and times when it isn’t prudent, and that is for each individual to decide.

Skip is used to leading the fight for gun rights wherever he goes. I hope that he understands that in this case, if he wants to lead, then he has a lot of catching up to do. That isn’t to imply that he hasn’t paid his dues, but that he just hasn’t garnered enough information or experience yet on a topic that some of us have been studying and experiencing for years. (Something tells me that he's a fast learner in these matters).

This is just my objective opinion, but I think Brian gets a little animated when people come up with reasons why others shouldn’t OC, or that it’s a bad idea. If one were to stop and think about how often those of us who have been involved in this movement have heard and refuted those claims, one might begin to understand the frustration. We've heard these arguments before countless times, and after a while it's easy to loose patience for what we who have been studying the topic know to be baseless.

Since we’re on the topic of tired clichés,

“Can’t we all just get along?”
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

SkipCoryell wrote:
I should comment on this as well.

"On a side note I think it's funny that he name drops Ted Nugent because from everything I have ever heard Ted is vehemently against open carry.

If Ted has changed his views on OC I would very much like to hear it (or read it) right from the horses mouth."


Anyone who knows me knows that I'm the former State Director of Ted Nugent United Sportsmen of America and RKBA events are not new to me. As far as name-dropping Ted Nugent, that's absurd. He's a good friend of mine so I refer to him the way I refer to my other friends.

As far as Ted being against open carry, that's also absurd. I consulted with Ted before I ran this event and he told me to post it on his own website tednugent.com.
Ted was very excited about this event and he supports you 100%. All of you are doing the Lord's work and should be proud. Ted can't tell you himself because he's just too busy.

Speaking of busy, I have to run my son to soccer camp, then meet my wife for lunch.
We're having Chinese food today.

I'll try to respond to as much as I can, but please understand that I'm very busy myself.

And just for the record, I believe that open carry is the next RKBA wave to hit the shoreline and I plan on storming the beaches with the rest of you guys.

God bless and see you at the next march.

Skip Coryell
http://www.mwtac.com
http://www.whitefeatherpress.com


Tell you friend Ted to post that he is okay with open carry on his site (you know, when he gets the time). I ask because undoubtedly one of the first quotes we get against OC is "Ted Nugent says there is no tactical advantage to OC, so I'm not going to." So ifTed really believes that, it would be helpful to the OC cause if he puts it in writing. That way OCer's can have a Nugent quote too.

Skip said: "believe that open carry is the next RKBA wave to hit the shoreline" I agree, and one of the reasons I feel so strongly about this topic and this site.
 

SkipCoryell

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
93
Location
Hamilton, Michigan, USA
imported post

One of the problems with forums is that things can be misconstrued.
Sometimes I don't say everything I think or believe simply because I don't want to type it all out. :)

Skip
 

SkipCoryell

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
93
Location
Hamilton, Michigan, USA
imported post

Idougwg wrote:
Dude, come on.... you're a writer!

Type away, typetill your heart's content.

Point well taken. True, I'm a writer, but I still only type with about 6 fingers, and I never could maintain a decent home row. I'll do my best.

Skip
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

SkipCoryell wrote:
Idougwg wrote:
Dude, come on.... you're a writer!

Type away, typetill your heart's content.

Point well taken. True, I'm a writer, but I still only type with about 6 fingers, and I never could maintain a decent home row. I'll do my best.

Skip
I only type with two, lost the others in a bet.
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
imported post

Venator wrote:
I only type with two, lost the others in a bet.


LOL. In the past few years Ive managed to type without looking at the keyboard. But I end up pressing the backspace more than any other button.

I feel, the only thing you lose with open carry, is, in fact, the element of surprise. From a tactical standpoint, if you go by what the word "Tactical" means from the dictionary:

Tactical:

1.of or pertaining to tactics, esp. military or naval tactics.
2.characterized by skillful tactics or adroit maneuvering or procedure: tactical movements.
3.of or pertaining to a maneuver or plan of action designed as an expedient toward gaining a desired end or temporary advantage.
4.expedient; calculated;
5.prudent; politic.

And if you look up other versions of the word in line 4:Expedient:, you come to the following:

Expedite:

1.to speed up the progress of; hasten: to expedite shipments.

So, IMHO, the more tactical of the two would be, by definition only, Open Carry.






P.S. Is there anyway to turn off the double spacing?!?!? It gets really annoying!!!
 

DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
imported post

Both sides of the discussion (OC and CC)have it wrong, if they think one is superior over the other either, either by a definition of "tactics" or actual practice of "tactics".There arecircumstances and reasons to choose OC, then at other times there are circumstances and reasons one should CC.

The tactical superiority ofOC or CC are, get your pens out and write this one down,*dependent on situation and circumstance*. Much of "situation and circumstance", you should bear in mind, are not only about the environment andpotential threats (objectivefactors) but also about the individualwho is carrying (subjective factors). Thus, even given the same environment and potential threats, I may determine it is best for myself to OC and my friend Joe Packing may determine it best for himself to CC. At other times, Joe and I may choose the other type of carry.

Neither of us are wrong, if in fact we've made the best choice for *ourselves* and have maximized ourpersonal chances for survivability, given what we know of ourselves in training, ongoing practice, and actual carry experience. The choice to OC orCC is aHIGHLY PERSONAL calculation, and I see no way to step into your brother's or sister'sshoes and tell him or her they are wrong for whatever way they choose to carry.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
imported post

UpNorth wrote:
Please get off the SOAPBOX, and become one of the rank and file,not only on this site, but MGO as well

What the hell is this supposed to mean? Since when is being "rank and file" what we're trying to accomplish? Have fun with your complacency, fool.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

dougwg wrote:
marshaul wrote:
UpNorth wrote:
Please get off the SOAPBOX, and become one of the rank and file,not only on this site, but MGO as well

What the hell is this supposed to mean? Since when is being "rank and file" what we're trying to accomplish? Have fun with your complacency, fool.
The "fool" comment was uncalled for.
Are you sure?
 

dougwg

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
2,443
Location
MOC Charter Member Westland, Michigan, USA
imported post

Venator wrote:
dougwg wrote:
marshaul wrote:
UpNorth wrote:
Please get off the SOAPBOX, and become one of the rank and file,not only on this site, but MGO as well

What the hell is this supposed to mean? Since when is being "rank and file" what we're trying to accomplish? Have fun with your complacency, fool.
The "fool" comment was uncalled for.
Are you sure?
No, just a guess. :)
 
Top