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Thread: OC Fine Print

  1. #1
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    Can you OC with an in-the-pant holster with only the grip of the gun being visible?

    Can you OC with a shoulder harness?

    Lets say you are carrying concealed with a shoulder harness and a lightweight jacket, you get a bit warm and want to take your jacket off. Would this be considered safely switching to OC or would some want to call it brandishing?

    What are some more specific lawsregarding brandishing? Do they onlycall itbrandishing if you are revealing your weapon to stir up conflict or cause a possible scene?

  2. #2
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    The word "brandishing" is frequently bandied about inappropriately. It ain't "brandishing" unless you display in a threatening manner.

  3. #3
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    Since most laws don't seem to define "brandishing", we pretty much have to use the dictionary's definition for it:

    bran·dish
    tr.v. bran·dished, bran·dish·ing, bran·dish·es
    1. To wave or flourish (a weapon, for example) menacingly.
    2. To display ostentatiously.
    n. A menacing or defiant wave or flourish.

    There is no menace in simply taking your jacket off, so you should be good there.
    The second definition covers displaying a formerly concealed (or even a openly carried weapon that had not been obvious) to intimidate someone. That would be illegal.

  4. #4
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    The law:

    http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRs/NRS-2...l#NRS202Sec350

    8. As used in this section:

    (a) “Concealed weapon” means a weapon described in this section that is carried upon a person in such a manner as not to be discernible by ordinary observation.

    http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRs/NRS-2...l#NRS202Sec320

    NRS 202.320 Drawing deadly weapon in threatening manner.
    1. Unless a greater penalty is provided inNRS 202.287 a person having, carrying or procuring from another person any dirk, dirk-knife, sword, sword cane, pistol, gun or other deadly weapon, who, in the presence of two or more persons, draws or exhibits any of such deadly weapons in a rude, angry or threatening manner not in necessary self-defense, or who in any manner unlawfully uses that weapon in any fight or quarrel, is guilty of a misdemeanor.

    2. A sheriff, deputy sheriff, marshal, constable or other peace officer shall not be held to answer, under the provisions of subsection 1, for drawing or exhibiting any of the weapons mentioned therein while in the lawful discharge of his duties.

    [1911 C&P § 174; RL § 6439; NCL § 10121]—(NRS A 1967, 486; 1989, 1240)

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Nevada is a defacto open carry state. Open carry means NOT concealed as defined above.

    Open carry is not "draws or exhibits any of such deadly weapons in a rude, angry or threatening manner."

    If you are carrying concealed and someone starts bothering you and you pull your cover garment aside so as to show your weapon, the issue may be was that an act "not in necessary self-defense."

    If you use your good judgement and behave like an adult IMHO you will not have a problem.

    Ken



  5. #5
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    Angervated wrote:
    Can you OC with an in-the-pant holster with only the grip of the gun being visible?

    Can you OC with a shoulder harness?

    Lets say you are carrying concealed with a shoulder harness and a lightweight jacket, you get a bit warm and want to take your jacket off. Would this be considered safely switching to OC or would some want to call it brandishing?

    What are some more specific lawsregarding brandishing? Do they onlycall itbrandishing if you are revealing your weapon to stir up conflict or cause a possible scene?
    I can't imagine switching back and forth between OC/CC with a shoulder rig is going to be brandishing. If so, I'm going to be in trouble!

    What may very well be trouble is OC with an 'in-the-pant' holster with only the grip showing. I've seen an e-mail from my local sheriff that strongly hints they would take a very dim view of such actions. You would be really pushing the limits of the law in that situation and it would be a good idea to not do that. Come on---it's not that tough to get a CCW, and then you can carry any way you want too!

  6. #6
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    Since there's no case law in Nevada interpreting "concealed" as it relates to an "open" firearm in an IWB holster, you have to read the law, look at yourself in your desired mode of carry and make a reasonable judgement.

    I carried OC with an IWB holster before I had my CCW. I did it all over Clark County as well as in Pahrump. Never had a problem, and had two LEO (who are friends and neighbors, so take it with a grain of salt) who went out of their way to comment on the fact that what I was doing (OC) was legal, and no one could "hassle me" about it.

    Unless it is a really deep holster or a really small gun, I think it would be easy for a defense attorney to take a picture of you with your IWB holster and firearm and show it to the jury and ask, "What is this that's on Joe's belt? Is there anyone who cannot discern through normal oservation that this is a firearm?"

    That was my thinking, you'll have to make your own decision.

  7. #7
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    bobernet wrote:
    Since there's no case law in Nevada interpreting "concealed" as it relates to an "open" firearm in an IWB holster, you have to read the law, look at yourself in your desired mode of carry and make a reasonable judgement.

    I carried OC with an IWB holster before I had my CCW. I did it all over Clark County as well as in Pahrump. Never had a problem, and had two LEO (who are friends and neighbors, so take it with a grain of salt) who went out of their way to comment on the fact that what I was doing (OC) was legal, and no one could "hassle me" about it.

    Unless it is a really deep holster or a really small gun, I think it would be easy for a defense attorney to take a picture of you with your IWB holster and firearm and show it to the jury and ask, "What is this that's on Joe's belt? Is there anyone who cannot discern through normal oservation that this is a firearm?"

    That was my thinking, you'll have to make your own decision.
    That was my thought, but I'm not sure if I want to risk it with a gun I don't have on my CCW. I need to qualify with my 1911 and revolver still. I just got my IWB holster for my 1911 in the mail today, so it's getting a good breaking-in while I'm at home, but I'll probably just grab my OWB paddle holster if I go outside.

    If I see someone else OCing like that, and that the LEOs aren't hassling them, I'll probably do it. I don't know that I'd even put my 1911 on my CCW, since it's not easy to conceal without printing.

    I've got to talk to a LEO at my church about another gun issue, so I'll ask him his opinion on that too.

  8. #8
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    Here's a picture of me OCing with an IWB holster. As I already mentioned, I did this regularly for a number of months before I decided to buy a Serpa for OCing.

    <pic deleted>

  9. #9
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    Bobernet, that's recognizable and I don't think there would be a problem. But, have you ever seen a clip draw rig? Or one of the rigs where only the very top of the butt shows or it's just level with the belt? That would be a problem!

  10. #10
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    Agreed. Those might be a problem! Mine is basically as "open" as it would be if it was OWB. The barrel is covered with leather or with pant leg either way.

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