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Thread: Man decapitates passenger next to him on bus.

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    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/...anscanada.html

    Passengers did nothing but watch as the BG stabbed the victim 50 or 60 times (according to a witness) and then proceeded to decapitate the victim. Regardless of carry or not, something should have been done.

    Makes me wonder though, what would have happened if someone were carrying, either CC or OC? Would they have stepped up and put a stop to it, and possibly saved the young man's life? Hopefully.

    30 plus passengers. No one even tried to help.

    This is why I carry; because when it comes to your safety only you can guarantee it to a point with which you are comfortable.

    "They did an awesome thing, holding him in there, because if not, what would have happened?" said Olmstead.
    Probably would have been even more awesome if they had bumrushed the guy after the initial stab and scream heard from the victim, you know... before he was in the process of decapitating the guy.



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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    It happened in Canada.

    To correct the statement that they sat idly by as the victim was stabbed and then decapitated - they poured out of the bus in a giant stampede, and called for the cops to come and make everything all right again.

    Canadians are indoctrinated to not offer resistance. I'm not sure if it is against the law to resist.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
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    And this is why I feel everyone law abiding citizen should always be armed! This is the kind of stuff that happens in a Gun free society, these people had no method of defending themselves without being attack.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Given the scenario I doubt if anyone could have done anything. Given the tight seating areas, the narrow aisle and the fact that the attack is already well in progress before it was noticed, unless someone on the bus were a hand to hand expert, I doubt if intervention by that point would have saved the man's life and probably would have gotten more people seriously injured or killed. The passengers got off the bus and held the door closed to keep him in there. Good plan because if got out everyone would have been in further danger.

    Given the crowded conditions on such a bus, even if someone had been carrying, unless they were lucky enough to have a good position relative to the BG, I'd hazard a guess that they would not have had a shot that wouldn't have endangered other passengers in time to save the deceased. Once they all got out of the bus and a shot would have been possible, there was no more lethal threat to justify a shooting and holding him in the bus by blocking the door was the best course of action.

    Of course, all of this ignores the fact that this took place in Canada so nobody was going to have a sidearm on the bus legally anyway unless an LEO happened to be riding.

    As a side note, this is a rather interesting case being that it is a bus rather than an airplane. On an airplane, being that it can't just immediately stop and let everyone off, there would have been no choice but for the other passengers to have attacked the knife wielding man regardless of further injuries or death.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Ahem, the unarmed, or should I say-- disarmed-- citizens of Canada "fleeing for their lives."



    Canadian Press
    July 31, 2008
    PORTAGE LA PRAIRIE, Man. - A man aboard a Greyhound Bus in Manitoba stabbed then beheaded a fellow passenger in what witnesses are describing as a savage and apparently unprovoked attack.
    Police have not confirmed what happened on the bus Wednesday night, but passengers recalled a horrific scene that had them fleeing for their lives.
    "We heard this blood-curdling scream and turned around and the guy was standing up, stabbing this guy repeatedly, like 40 or 50 times," Garnet Caton said Thursday from a hotel in Brandon, Man., where he and other passengers had been taken to rest.
    Caton said everyone on the bus scrambled to get out, and he and the bus driver shut the door from the outside while they waited for police to arrive.
    Eventually, the attacker came to the front of the bus and showed them he had cut off the victim's head, Caton said.
    The RCMP and Greyhound officials would only say that a "major incident" occurred on the bus, which stopped near Portage la Prairie.
    The bus was carrying 37 passengers and the driver to Winnipeg from Edmonton.
    At one point, Mounties surrounded the bus. One officer stood just a few feet away from an unidentified man sitting in the driver's seat.
    A man was taken into custody after the standoff with police.
    A portion of the Trans-Canada Highway, about 15 kilometres west of Portage la Prairie, remained closed Thursday morning.
    Yellow tape surrounded the empty bus and RCMP officers were still on the scene. Traffic was being rerouted onto a side road.
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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    deepdiver wrote:
    Given the crowded conditions on such a bus, even if someone had been carrying, unless they were lucky enough to have a good position relative to the BG, I'd hazard a guess that they would not have had a shot that wouldn't have endangered other passengers in time to save the deceased.
    Contact headshot. End scenario.
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    Knife ban.

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    How pathetic and sad 30 other people on the bus just sitting there and doing nothing. I'm sure some of them had breifcases, backpacks,lunchboxes or something to at least fend him off of the poor guy. Canadians..... Pathetic....

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    <devils advocate>
    I like to look at defense of others as similar to providing first aid. If you don't know what you are doing (especially hand to hand combat) you are just as likely to make the situation worse as you are make it better. What good is someone trying to stop the guy if the criminal just kills him too because he has no knowledge beyond "run towards the bad guy"?
    </devils advocate>

    Bravery is nice to talk about but without any real ability to help bravery just ends up meaning another body cooling on the ground. If I'm going in to cardiac arrest and you don't know CPR, don't touch me, call the paramedics. If you don't know how to defend me from an attack, don't get involved, call the cops.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    ODA 226 wrote:
    deepdiver wrote:
    Given the crowded conditions on such a bus, even if someone had been carrying, unless they were lucky enough to have a good position relative to the BG, I'd hazard a guess that they would not have had a shot that wouldn't have endangered other passengers in time to save the deceased.
    Contact headshot. End scenario.
    Sheriff wrote:
    This was a vicious and gruesome attack, so the discussion almost has to be as well. So, having said that, this was actually a pretty good place to have a nice clean shot without injuring other passengers. Thelunatic was extremely busy with what he was doing... right? You simply walk up behind him, place the gun behind his neck at an upwards angle and pull the trigger.

    SNIP
    I don't disagree with either of you, however, IMO a contact head shot falls under the category of "lucky enough to have a good position relative to the BG" I mentioned. Otherwise I still contend that it is highly unlikely that anyone was going to get there in time to save the victims life. Unless the GG is smaller than average and other people are not in the aisle, unless s/he starts off near the victim and stabber I just don't see her/him getting there in time on a mostly full bus. I'll fully accept the fact though that I could be utterly wrong.

    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    There is something so inhumane about "running for the hills" while a defenseless citizen is being knifed and decapitated.

    Where is their humanity? Not one would even risk being cut to save a life? (I guess not considering their socialized medicine)
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    I seen this when it came out, it almost made me sick. Just on the basis of nobody tried to stop him from continuing to stab the guy.

    Afterward though, after they were off the bus, some trucker gave them all objects which could be used as weapons to keep the insane person on the bus.
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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Okay, you know, unless this was a small bus, it was nowhere near full. 32 passengers is not that many. They could have easily got to him, and even though you may not know much about combat, most people know that if you choke someone, you have control.

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    Did this happen at night or in daylight? I'm just wondering, if this happens in a dark place and all you see is commotion, it might seem sensible to just get some distance before deciding what is going on and what to do. I just can't imagine all these people running away.

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    Custodian wrote:
    There is something so inhumane about "running for the hills" while a defenseless citizen is being knifed and decapitated.

    Where is their humanity? Not one would even risk being cut to save a life? (I guess not considering their socialized medicine)
    Think of it as a "passive herd mentality".

    We've all seen video of the preditory cats in Africa, singling out their prey from a herd of Zebra, wildibeast, Antelope, etc. The herd does nothing to save the single victem. The rest of the herd continues to run to safety until the preditor downs his target, then they all just stand around a watch as the cat devour the kill.

    I've only seen one instence where the herd turned on the preditors and saved the would be victem. It was a herd of Cap Buffalo. Cap Buffalo are armed with hooked and up turning horns that can be quite lethal. Not to mention that these beast are pretty good size and rather aggrtessive themselves.

    The liberal of the world want all humans to become a herd of defenselss sheep. That's not for me. I prefer to be the sheepdog.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Yes. Canada has banned guns. Now they have a decapitated victim. How soon shall the call go out to ban knives? Once knives are banned to mitigate stabbings and beheadings, can you imagine the legislatures chargin when another high profile occurs without resistance with a plastic bag over the victim's head? or someone lit ablaze with a can of lighter fluid and a zippo?

    The problem with banning 'things' is that there are endless implements and household itemsthat can be used for destruction for murder.

    The fact that no one did anything tostop the monster is more evidence that this culture is ovine.. oblivious, cud chewing, bleating and hapless. The irony is the herd has the nerve to ask gun owners, "Why to you need a gun?", in spite of the regular drumbeat of violence and crime around the country.


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    We can't fault the passengers for doing what they did. We don't know what really went down and how fast it might have happened. It was probably best that the attacker was so distracted with his victim that everyone else was able to escape unharmed.

    On the gun control thing Canadians are waking up to the fact that their government has been lying to them about the effectiveness of gun control, gun registration and so on to reduce crime.

    From youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XOmUXycDPs

    Rex Murphy "Point of View" on CBC National News targets the useless Canadian Gun Registry which has been a boondoggle of gigantic proportions, a comedy of errors and cost overruns and has done nothing to solve the ever rising gun violence in major Canadian cities.

    Check out this Canadian girl's pro gun videos http://www.youtube.com/user/kateysfirearmsfacts

    The Canadians are starting to wake up and realize that their government lied to them when it said give us your guns and you'll be safe. Canadians want their guns back and they want them for self defense.

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    skidmark wrote:
    Canadians are indoctrinated to not offer resistance.
    Sadly, the same thing can be said for the United States. Look at how children are told by teacher to deal with active shooters. Look at how people would rather post their cell phone video on YouTube than help save a life.
    Quote Originally Posted by Open Carry.org Member View Post
    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with out the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    Joe Schmedlap out there with a loaded weapon thinking he's going to deter crime and he's not even trained to fire his weapon safely just kinda makes my hair on the back of my neck stand up.

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    catass wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    Canadians are indoctrinated to not offer resistance.
    Sadly, the same thing can be said for the United States. Look at how children are told by teacher to deal with active shooters. Look at how people would rather post their cell phone video on YouTube than help save a life.
    Look at 9/11. Airline passengers.

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    catass wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    Canadians are indoctrinated to not offer resistance.
    Sadly, the same thing can be said for the United States. Look at how children are told by teacher to deal with active shooters. Look at how people would rather post their cell phone video on YouTube than help save a life.
    Look at 9/11. Airline passengers.
    I will be more than happy to admit there are a number of citizens that will stand up for the right, however, the ones that won't outnumber us.

    Look at Boston(?), where the man was hit by a hit and run driver. They later announced standers-by called 911, but nobody could drag him out of the street?

    Look at the Omaha Mall Shooting, people scattered and ran scared. Who took the active shooter out?
    Quote Originally Posted by Open Carry.org Member View Post
    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with out the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    Joe Schmedlap out there with a loaded weapon thinking he's going to deter crime and he's not even trained to fire his weapon safely just kinda makes my hair on the back of my neck stand up.

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    thx997303 wrote:
    Okay, you know, unless this was a small bus, it was nowhere near full. 32 passengers is not that many. They could have easily got to him, and even though you may not know much about combat, most people know that if you choke someone, you have control.
    If i read correctly there were 39 people on the bus. The standard bus carries 54 some less andsome afew more. 37 people tying get out of a bus means all kindsofcommotion. I just don't see everyone calmly waiting for you to get into your Weaver stance and take careful aim.

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Contact shot, no need for a stance, or careful aim.

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    jdoe wrote:
    We can't fault the passengers for doing what they did. We don't know what really went down and how fast it might have happened. It was probably best that the attacker was so distracted with his victim that everyone else was able to escape unharmed.

    On the gun control thing Canadians are waking up to the fact that their government has been lying to them about the effectiveness of gun control, gun registration and so on to reduce crime.

    From youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XOmUXycDPs

    Rex Murphy "Point of View" on CBC National News targets the useless Canadian Gun Registry which has been a boondoggle of gigantic proportions, a comedy of errors and cost overruns and has done nothing to solve the ever rising gun violence in major Canadian cities.

    Check out this Canadian girl's pro gun videos http://www.youtube.com/user/kateysfirearmsfacts

    The Canadians are starting to wake up and realize that their government lied to them when it said give us your guns and you'll be safe. Canadians want their guns back and they want them for self defense.
    I strongly disagree. Canadians are not waking up. Even before 1989 when the gun laws in Canada were no where near as bad as they are today. Self defense was not generally accepted as a reason to own a handgun.

    They are upset about the cost of the gun registration and how it has not helped in lowering the crime rate.

    The thing people seem to misunderstand is that Canada, the U.K. (except Northern Ireland) and Australia were not like Nevada, then all of a sudden a gun ban came along. It was very difficult and almost impossible (situation unchanged) to have a gun for self defense and to have a carry license back then. That's why it was easy to tighten gun laws, because those that had guns mostly had them for sports or as a tool, not for self defense.

    As far as an LEO being on the bus. Very few police departments in Canada allow for off duty carry. They must obtain a Gun License and an ATC just like everyone else. There are about 50 to 100 ATC's out there that are unrestricted, the people that have them would not be riding a bus.



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    When I heard this story on the news I thought to myself, things like this is the reason why I carry.

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