Beware Obamas So called change

Don't vote on one issue, see the entire candidate before making decisions.

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Thats pretty lame. Putting in your own opinions inside of a quote. You sneaky Neo Con you :what:

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You know, it doesn't look like anything I say in response to Holo's political comments is going to change his mind. Maybe the logical thing to do would be ... not respond. (Ya think?)

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Regardless of other issues, being that this is a firearms forum, the fact is that Obama is NOT a friend to the second amendment. Obama has a voting history against the ownership of firearms. Obama has a voting history against the use of firearms for self-defense. Obama has a history of supporting confiscation of handguns. Obama is part of the political mindset that has led generally to Illinois' and specifically Chicago's hand gun bans, restrictive ownership, registration and a blaming of firearms for their own failed policies, policies with which he now wants to encumber the entire nation.

I've been checking back to this thread occasionally, mostly staying out of it, hoping to see that some sort of intelligent dialogue would finally come of it. Unfortunately, while on one side and in the middle are predominately facts, reasoned view points and analysis, as is typical, on the Obama side there is emotion, reaction, half-truth, name calling, and willful ignorance of business, economics, science and history. But then to support Obama I guess one must be as ignorant about these things as he is otherwise one would find themselves trying to listen to the man and repeatedly saying, "but that just isn't factually true" and "I own a business and that isn't how it works" or "I have employees I have to pay and that will bankrupt me and my business owning friends or cause massive lay-offs or firings", or "that isn't what the history books sitting right there on my book shelf say" or "this map doesn't agree and I'm trusting Rand McNally over Obama" which would make one cringe and realize that whatever choice one makes in November it is not going to be for him.

So I am going to follow Bear's lead and am done with this thread. I would offer the hope that it dies a quick, painless death, however, it is far too late for that.

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Holo wrote:

Don't vote on one issue, see the entire candidate before making decisions.

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I will vote my conscious based on my own criteria not based on the criteria others would like to impose upon me. I vote as I see fit thank you very much. I will also continue hold my guns and God close, even though the Obama camp ridicules that as a defect. But than my spiritual mentor is not a rabid anti American racist either. So I would not need to turn my back on him when he is exposed for who the really is. He and I are the same person in private as we are in public. We do not sit around berating people of color when they are not around the way Obama confessed doing when whites were not around and he could speak freely behind the closed doors of of his home, his church and black establishments. As you have done your research you know where I got that from. His famous race speech.
But lets look at the whole record 25 times Obama has voted against civil rights bills. Consistently voting against self defense laws and has repeatedly shut down anti gang legislation because it would negatively effect too many gang bangers of color.
I want all our children brothers and sisters brought home safe and victorious mission accomplished as the heros and warriors they. With pride and honor. Respected for their selfless sacrifice and courage. Not dragged back defeated branded as murders of an unjust war as Obama would like.
Having done my research what is scary is what we do not know. Only when he slips away from his canned speeches do we see glimpses of what he really is. A dishonest deceitful racist coward who parades around the mid east as if he has something to do with the success in Iraq, never admitting he was wrong. That the surge and our warriors freed a nation from tyranny with their courage sacrifice blood and lives.
Fact: He would bring shame to these heros to further his agenda
Fact: He was a muslim until his political career began. Yes I do think there is something wrong with that
Fact: He secretly despises non blacks
Fact: All we know of him is his spin
Fact: He would disarm all Americans
Fact: He has no regard or understanding of the Constitution

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Where for the life of me do you get yoiur facts???? Surely not from the 527 Emails that are put out there from the NeoCons that are baseless without facts.

Obama has never been a muslim nor attended muslim schools. Always has been a practicing christian.

Obama or the Democratic Party are not running on a Anti-Gun Platform, period. Do you right wingnuts figure you are the only ones who have guns or llike to hunt? You are so very wrong. Another scare tactic put out there by the Right.

Yep, like Bush does.... Obama studied Constituional Law at Harvard Law School and has a degree. Yep, I think he knows the Constitution better than you and I!

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

I have to wonder if he is a gun guy at all, because Obama has said he will stripe gun rights and Holo doesn't seem to be worried about it. Can anyone say

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Do you have any links / sources to your claims, if so I'd like to look at them...

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Yep, like Bush does.... Obama studied Constituional Law at Harvard Law School and has a degree. Yep, I think he knows the Constitution better than you and I!

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Dukester wrote:

Where for the life of me do youget yoiur facts???? Surely not from the 527 Emails that are put out there from the NeoCons that are baseless without facts.

Obama has never been a muslim nor attended muslim schools. Always has been a practicing christian.

Obama or the Democratic Party are not running on a Anti-Gun Platform, period. Do you right wingnuts figure you are the only ones who have guns or llike to hunt? You are so very wrong. Another scare tactic put out there by the Right.

Yep, like Bush does.... Obamastudied Constituional Law at Harvard Law School and has a degree. Yep, I think he knows the Constitution better than you and I!

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1. Obama's definitely not an orthodox Muslim, although he spent two years as a small boy at a Muslim public school in Indonesia. Mainstream Islam is too universalist to appeal to Obama's racialist instincts.

Is Obama a Christian? No. In his book Dreams from my Father he dedicates a few pages to his "conversion" by Wright into TUCC. He doesn't do it because he has any love for God, but to express racial solidarity against whites with Reverend Wright and his congregation.

2. The Democratic Party may not be running on an anti-gun platform officially (because it's a political loser) but that doesn't mean they won't try and ram it down our throats in the future. Look at Obama's anti-gun records in the Illinois state legislature. Do you really think he would abandon that record when in the Senate or White House?

3. Obama nodded his head in affirmation when asked if the DC handgun ban was constitutional in a television interview when it plainly isn't. On "Face the Nation" he said that he looked forward to being President for the next "8 to 10 years" although the Constitution was amended only to allow two terms of 4 years. It doesn't sound like he is reading the same Constitution as I am.

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"The National Security Archives has published the full text of the memo from Richard Clarke to Condoleeza Rice in January 25, 2001, warning of the growing Al Qaeda threat and requesting an urgent meeting. It took Rice until a week before the attacks on 9/11 to get the meeting together. During that time, the President had spent roughly 40% of his time in office on vacation. Although the memo was discussed in Congressional hearings, the full text was only released to the public after Rice's confirmation as U.S. Secretary of State."


That's right, the memo—a disaster for the White House if anyone in Washington cared to hold the administration to account for failing to acknowledge real terrorist threats—was released not only after Rice was confirmed, but after she left the country to go on her European tour several weeks ago. Rice's appearance in Europe dominated the news while this memo, again, gets tossed into the mainstream media's editorial dung heap. Let's also not forget that Rice, as National Security Advisor, was scheduled to give a speech outlining U.S. security and global threats on the very same day the World Trade Center collapsed. Her speech of course was canceled, however, a copy of it revealed that Al Qaeda wasn't even mentioned! She was going to blather on about Iraq and the need for a missile defense system. And now this buffoon is our Secretary of State.
Here's Richard Clarke's memo warning of al Qaeda...

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OK Holo...here's how I see it.

While you're a democrat and supporter of Obama, you agree with gun ownership. Fine.

I'll stipulate that gun control is not on the party platform for the election.

I'll even stipulate that Obama is not campaigning on the issue of banning guns.

The problem is...they don't have to. The democrats have control of the Assembly. They're poised to obtain a majority in the Senate.

There democrats in office already who regularly submit gun control bills that either die in committee or don't clear both houses because they know they'll get vetoed.

So now if we replace a R seat or two in the senate with Ds...get a few committee seats changed...how many of those gun control bills do you think are going to do anything but pass at warp speed?

As to the Heller case...please...there's SC justices that will be retiring soon. Do you think Obama will appoint replacements favorable to gun rights? We all know he won't. He doesn't have to say it.

The fact that gun control is not on the party or candidate platform is simply fresh-squeezed kool-aid. From a 2A perspective it is so far beyond vital to keep obama out of office (and further congressional seats from flipping to D as well) that words don't exist to describe how vital it is.


(as for me, I do have a number of other issues that I disagree with BO on. I'm addressing this one here because it's a gun forum and because you're buying in to the argument that gun rights are safe because they're not on the platform and because Heller has "settled" it. This is not the case.)

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Obama or the Democratic Party are not running on a Anti-Gun Platform, period.

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11 Firearms
12 We recognize that the right to bear arms is an important part of the American tradition,
13 and we will preserve Americans’ continued Second Amendment right to own and use
14 firearms. We believe that the right to own firearms is subject to reasonable regulation, but
15 we know that what works in Chicago may not work in Cheyenne. We can work together
16 to enact and enforce common-sense laws and improvements, like closing the gun show
17 loophole, improving our background check system and reinstating the assault weapons
18 ban, so that guns do not fall into the hands of terrorists or criminals. Acting responsibly
19 and with respect for differing views on this issue, we can both protect the constitutional
20 right to bear arms and keep our communities and our children safe.

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