brokenarrows
Regular Member
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MY EXPERIENCE HERE
- Thread starter brokenarrows
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ainokea
Regular Member
imported post
brokenarrows wrote:
BROKENARROWS,
I am sorry you feel this way about this site. I am someone who is new to posting on this site, however, I have been regularly reading this site for the last 8 or 9 months. I will agree with you that there are a few misguided individuals posting on this site. Most of the people on this site are very honest and respectful people. With that being said I am sorry that the actions of a few have left a bad taste in your mouth.
In my opinion I believe that the OC laws on private property as they stand now are acceptable. I believe that asa property owner you have the right to decided what you will or will not allow on your property. Without such laws there could be no private property only "community" property. I personally don't get offended if someone asks me to leave "THEIR" property because I am choosing to carry a gun. I will respectfully leave.
The site as of late has gotten awayfromthe true reason this site was created and in my opinion it is a shame. Frankly, I am embarrassed that there are members on this site who feel they are "responsible" enough to carry a gun but must go around threatening people who don't share their exactsame views. We have all joined this site because we have something in common, an interest in OC. By threatening our own members it is ultimately going to damage our cause.
Sincerely,
AINOKEA
brokenarrows wrote:
BROKENARROWS,
I am sorry you feel this way about this site. I am someone who is new to posting on this site, however, I have been regularly reading this site for the last 8 or 9 months. I will agree with you that there are a few misguided individuals posting on this site. Most of the people on this site are very honest and respectful people. With that being said I am sorry that the actions of a few have left a bad taste in your mouth.
In my opinion I believe that the OC laws on private property as they stand now are acceptable. I believe that asa property owner you have the right to decided what you will or will not allow on your property. Without such laws there could be no private property only "community" property. I personally don't get offended if someone asks me to leave "THEIR" property because I am choosing to carry a gun. I will respectfully leave.
The site as of late has gotten awayfromthe true reason this site was created and in my opinion it is a shame. Frankly, I am embarrassed that there are members on this site who feel they are "responsible" enough to carry a gun but must go around threatening people who don't share their exactsame views. We have all joined this site because we have something in common, an interest in OC. By threatening our own members it is ultimately going to damage our cause.
Sincerely,
AINOKEA
Mainsail
Regular Member
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brokenarrows wrote:
To begin, it’s silly to attempt to paint everyone with such a broad brush. You cannot know the reasons why many of us OC unless you ask many of us and we all answer. The simple fact is that, like any other group of people, we are all different; we all have different beliefs, experiences, and motivations.
They are not being honest with you. Every police-training program has extensive instruction on what is required to seize a citizen. The rules of Terry stops are always covered and terms like ‘reasonable articulable suspicion’, ‘search and seizure’, ‘probable cause’, and ‘arrest’ are well known to all police officers when they leave the academy. Unfortunately, many officers rely on the public’s lack of knowledge of their rights as a tactic to use against them. The fact that open carry isn’t specifically covered in their training is moot; if they don’t know that something is illegal, they have no business detaining anyone for doing that something. It doesn’t matter whether it’s the open carry of a firearm or the preaching of the Muslim faith; unless they have a reasonable belief -that they can articulate- of a crime afoot, they have no business detaining a citizen for doing so. If they insist on seizing someone for open carry, it’s either because of some personal bias towards armed citizens, or an improper (or illegal) departmental policy.
brokenarrows wrote:
To begin, it’s silly to attempt to paint everyone with such a broad brush. You cannot know the reasons why many of us OC unless you ask many of us and we all answer. The simple fact is that, like any other group of people, we are all different; we all have different beliefs, experiences, and motivations.
They are not being honest with you. Every police-training program has extensive instruction on what is required to seize a citizen. The rules of Terry stops are always covered and terms like ‘reasonable articulable suspicion’, ‘search and seizure’, ‘probable cause’, and ‘arrest’ are well known to all police officers when they leave the academy. Unfortunately, many officers rely on the public’s lack of knowledge of their rights as a tactic to use against them. The fact that open carry isn’t specifically covered in their training is moot; if they don’t know that something is illegal, they have no business detaining anyone for doing that something. It doesn’t matter whether it’s the open carry of a firearm or the preaching of the Muslim faith; unless they have a reasonable belief -that they can articulate- of a crime afoot, they have no business detaining a citizen for doing so. If they insist on seizing someone for open carry, it’s either because of some personal bias towards armed citizens, or an improper (or illegal) departmental policy.
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brokenarrows wrote:
In the mean time? Just stop posting and leave yourself.
If you are in support of the second amendment, as you claim, I'm sure you are familiar with the amendment that provides everyone here with freedom of speech. I haven't found any posts where individuals here are advocating breaking laws; on the contrary we are discussing our RIGHTS provided under the constitution and its amendments. We are discussing what is LEGAL not advocating things that are ILLEGAL.
brokenarrows wrote:
In the mean time? Just stop posting and leave yourself.
If you are in support of the second amendment, as you claim, I'm sure you are familiar with the amendment that provides everyone here with freedom of speech. I haven't found any posts where individuals here are advocating breaking laws; on the contrary we are discussing our RIGHTS provided under the constitution and its amendments. We are discussing what is LEGAL not advocating things that are ILLEGAL.
Utah_Patriot
Regular Member
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I ask the question a few bad people and your gone. You say people are doing this to draw attention but on the other hand since this group became active Open Carry has become more acceptable around the public and leo's. It has been a good thing that people are standing up for their rights. So when you leave may I recomend you find another site thats agrees with your every whim and never disagrees
I ask the question a few bad people and your gone. You say people are doing this to draw attention but on the other hand since this group became active Open Carry has become more acceptable around the public and leo's. It has been a good thing that people are standing up for their rights. So when you leave may I recomend you find another site thats agrees with your every whim and never disagrees
scorpioajr
Regular Member
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gunsfreak4791 wrote:
There is something to be said about someone who can ONLY see their point, and no one else's.
gunsfreak4791 wrote:
Im not even sure if this dudes problem is the fact that ppl disagree with him. IMO: his issues stem from the fact that he only comments on his OWN statements and doesn't really address how others respond to him, except the negative. Never valid statements or questions.
There is something to be said about someone who can ONLY see their point, and no one else's.
ainokea
Regular Member
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ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
I believe his issue with the site was that someone or a few people threatened him by PM based on some of his posts in the Public Form that someone didn't agree with. Personally, I think that if someone needs to threaten someone base on comments posted on this form it just shows how immature they really are. On the flip side if you are going to let a few "bad apples" quiet your opinions then their threats have worked and you have been silenced.
I am a firm believer in standing up for what you beleive in and to also respect what others believe in even if you do not agree with them at all.
ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
I believe his issue with the site was that someone or a few people threatened him by PM based on some of his posts in the Public Form that someone didn't agree with. Personally, I think that if someone needs to threaten someone base on comments posted on this form it just shows how immature they really are. On the flip side if you are going to let a few "bad apples" quiet your opinions then their threats have worked and you have been silenced.
I am a firm believer in standing up for what you beleive in and to also respect what others believe in even if you do not agree with them at all.
ChinChin
Regular Member
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brokenarrows wrote:
brokenarrows wrote:
As opposed to your seeking attention for yourself in crafting aOCDO membership "fare thee well" grand announcement rather than just leaving without making a scene?
scorpioajr
Regular Member
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ainokea wrote:
ainokea wrote:
Unacceptable.
xRapidDavex
Regular Member
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ainokea wrote:
Do you have PROOF that he was threatened in PM's?
ainokea wrote:
Do you have PROOF that he was threatened in PM's?
ainokea
Regular Member
imported post
xRapidDavex wrote:
No, I don't have proof he was threatend. I may be wrong after I read his post again he says he was "harassed via pm by another." It doesn't say "threatened". If this is correct I appologize for the oversight on my part for making things appear worse.
xRapidDavex wrote:
No, I don't have proof he was threatend. I may be wrong after I read his post again he says he was "harassed via pm by another." It doesn't say "threatened". If this is correct I appologize for the oversight on my part for making things appear worse.
Jeff Johnson
Regular Member
imported post
Based on my experience with this member at UCC, and from what I've read here, I believe that he was nothing more than a troll, trying to stir up hate and discontent. I think that we can safely ignore him.
Based on my experience with this member at UCC, and from what I've read here, I believe that he was nothing more than a troll, trying to stir up hate and discontent. I think that we can safely ignore him.
Decoligny
Regular Member
imported post
Jeff Johnson wrote:
I just went back over every single thread that Brokenarrow posted in. He removed most of his posts. The ones that he left were ambiguous. The ones that I found quoted (he couldn't remove those) were mostly very supportive of Police violating OCer rights, and overall very negative to OC in general.
Definitely a verytenacious troll.
Jeff Johnson wrote:
I just went back over every single thread that Brokenarrow posted in. He removed most of his posts. The ones that he left were ambiguous. The ones that I found quoted (he couldn't remove those) were mostly very supportive of Police violating OCer rights, and overall very negative to OC in general.
Definitely a verytenacious troll.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Decoligny wrote:
(Not to argue with you. I'm just using it as an opportunity to express myself.)
I'm not convinced he was a troll.
Certainly he had an abrasive effect.
But, I strongly suspect he was just what he said he was. A 2A supporter who was concerned that we were gonna screw itup for him.
I think if we had handled ourselves differently we could have allayed his concerns and possibly gained an ally or even a new member.
You have to realize there are A LOT of people out there who think the police are saints and can do no wrong. And who think with their prior opinions rather than compare a situation to the law. Hell, many, many, many people just don't know the fine points of 4th Amendment case law on detentions, reasonable suspicion, etc. If they don't know the exact points of the law,what are they going to use for comparision? Their prior opinions, of course. Similar could be said about people knowing their rights in general.
It angers me that some on this forum pounce andarguerather than patiently educateand discuss. It drives off potential friends. And makes us look bad.
Even an antagonistic CCW-only person deserves patient, respectful discussion.If he remains hostile to OC anddeparts the forum,so what? What have you lost?
If you can't treat these people with courtesy and respect, please don't reply at all. Those of us working to educate people on OC and win converts would really appreciate it.
Decoligny wrote:
(Not to argue with you. I'm just using it as an opportunity to express myself.)
I'm not convinced he was a troll.
Certainly he had an abrasive effect.
But, I strongly suspect he was just what he said he was. A 2A supporter who was concerned that we were gonna screw itup for him.
I think if we had handled ourselves differently we could have allayed his concerns and possibly gained an ally or even a new member.
You have to realize there are A LOT of people out there who think the police are saints and can do no wrong. And who think with their prior opinions rather than compare a situation to the law. Hell, many, many, many people just don't know the fine points of 4th Amendment case law on detentions, reasonable suspicion, etc. If they don't know the exact points of the law,what are they going to use for comparision? Their prior opinions, of course. Similar could be said about people knowing their rights in general.
It angers me that some on this forum pounce andarguerather than patiently educateand discuss. It drives off potential friends. And makes us look bad.
Even an antagonistic CCW-only person deserves patient, respectful discussion.If he remains hostile to OC anddeparts the forum,so what? What have you lost?
If you can't treat these people with courtesy and respect, please don't reply at all. Those of us working to educate people on OC and win converts would really appreciate it.
xRapidDavex
Regular Member
imported post
Citizen, I think you should check out this thread:
http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=2601&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=brokenarrows
I suggest reading the whole thread since it is only 3 pages long.
Citizen, I think you should check out this thread:
http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=2601&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=brokenarrows
I suggest reading the whole thread since it is only 3 pages long.
Pa. Patriot
State Researcher
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Hmmm.
This guy sounds like the same "brokenarrow" that started trolling PAFOA forum:
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed-open-carry-121/27830-watching-cops-last-night-post-366799.html#post366799
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/question-answer-40/29189-what-makes-cop-different-post-380505.html#post380505
Hmmm.
This guy sounds like the same "brokenarrow" that started trolling PAFOA forum:
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed-open-carry-121/27830-watching-cops-last-night-post-366799.html#post366799
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/question-answer-40/29189-what-makes-cop-different-post-380505.html#post380505
Jeff Johnson
Regular Member
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Trolls are a real fact of life in online forums.
Some of them hope to so disrupt the site as to reduce its effectiveness.
You'd better believe that this happens on pro-gun forums.
I believe that this is one of the things that ultimately took down PDO.
One of the moderators jobs is to watch out for and weed out real trolls.
"brokenarrow" didn't last a day over at UCC.
Trolls are a real fact of life in online forums.
Some of them hope to so disrupt the site as to reduce its effectiveness.
You'd better believe that this happens on pro-gun forums.
I believe that this is one of the things that ultimately took down PDO.
One of the moderators jobs is to watch out for and weed out real trolls.
"brokenarrow" didn't last a day over at UCC.
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Easy for folks to cast the blame and point out others faults when, from what I've seen, several folks get all up in arms when someone disagrees with them and yet you talk down to someone who does the same. I know for a fact that a couple new members here have received harassing and threatening PM's since I know them IRL.
Sure it's nice to live in your cushy little closed off world where nobody has a differing opinion and God forbid someone comes on here with something that may provoke thought. I've actually seen a couple of posts of people complaining about threads that are provoking independent thought. While I agree with everything this forum stands for, I don't agree with the brainless regurgitation of others ideas on the subject. Take a step back and think for yourself, it's because of people being sheep and blindly accepting opinion without investigating it on their own that this forum even has to exist.
Easy for folks to cast the blame and point out others faults when, from what I've seen, several folks get all up in arms when someone disagrees with them and yet you talk down to someone who does the same. I know for a fact that a couple new members here have received harassing and threatening PM's since I know them IRL.
Sure it's nice to live in your cushy little closed off world where nobody has a differing opinion and God forbid someone comes on here with something that may provoke thought. I've actually seen a couple of posts of people complaining about threads that are provoking independent thought. While I agree with everything this forum stands for, I don't agree with the brainless regurgitation of others ideas on the subject. Take a step back and think for yourself, it's because of people being sheep and blindly accepting opinion without investigating it on their own that this forum even has to exist.
Marine Master Sergeant
Regular Member
imported post
Agree 100 % w/ brokenarrows
Agree 100 % w/ brokenarrows