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Thread: My CC permit means I can't OC?

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    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    We all know that some of the worst advice we can get comes from law enforcement officers. I mostly conceal carry but sometimes I OC. I was informed by a neighbor who is a deputy that because I have a state issued concealed carry permit I can't OC. Hisstatement was basically that by getting the permit I hadvoluntarilygiven up my right to open carry. I've had CCW permits going back to the days when they were issued by individual parishes. I've read numerous state laws and taken several carry classes over the years. I have never heard this before. I have looked all over mybooklets and training manuals. I have searched the LSP website. I can't find anything anywhere telling me that having a CCW permit means I can't OC. I think the deputy is full of bovine feces. Anyone else heard of this?
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    yale wrote:
    We all know that some of the worst advice we can get comes from law enforcement officers. I mostly conceal carry but sometimes I OC. I was informed by a neighbor who is a deputy that because I have a state issued concealed carry permit I can't OC. Hisstatement was basically that by getting the permit I hadvoluntarilygiven up my right to open carry. I've had CCW permits going back to the days when they were issued by individual parishes. I've read numerous state laws and taken several carry classes over the years. I have never heard this before. I have looked all over mybooklets and training manuals. I have searched the LSP website. I can't find anything anywhere telling me that having a CCW permit means I can't OC. I think the deputy is full of bovine feces. Anyone else heard of this?
    Sounds to me like your neighbor, should NEVER be invited to another BBQ AGAIN !

    Just another LEO giving a Bad name to all the Good LEO's.

    What a tird ? What kind of sensedoes that even make ?

    I'll look around, but I'm pretty sure we won't find anything.













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    He may be thinking of Negligent Carry, LRS 40:1382:

    (2) When the handgun is being carried, brandished, or displayed under circumstances that create a reasonable apprehension on the part of members of the public or a law enforcement official that a crime is being committed or is about to be committed.


    But a holstered sidearm only falls under that definition in the most psychotic of minds.

    The way I read the law, you legally be at 0.06 BAC while carrying openly, so it'd be odd if you couldn't carry openly while subject to a CCW.

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    I believe you need to meet Mark Edward Marchiafava.
    James M. "Jim" Mullins, Jr., Esq.
    Admitted to practice in West Virginia and Florida.

    Founder, Past President, Treasurer, and General Counsel, West Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    Life Member, NRA

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    yale wrote:
    We all know that some of the worst advice we can get comes from law enforcement officers. I mostly conceal carry but sometimes I OC. I was informed by a neighbor who is a deputy that because I have a state issued concealed carry permit I can't OC. Hisstatement was basically that by getting the permit I hadvoluntarilygiven up my right to open carry. I've had CCW permits going back to the days when they were issued by individual parishes. I've read numerous state laws and taken several carry classes over the years. I have never heard this before. I have looked all over mybooklets and training manuals. I have searched the LSP website. I can't find anything anywhere telling me that having a CCW permit means I can't OC. I think the deputy is full of bovine feces. Anyone else heard of this?
    He's full of that bull stuff you said. Who does he work for and what does he do? Jail deputy or road deputy?

    I've had a CHP since they started and I've never read that anywhere.

    Tell him to show YOU where it's written.

    Call the State Police Concealed Handgun Section and ask them.

    Jump in Mark.

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    Not only is that untrue, it is something that has been going around for long enough that I have posted an offer of a $1000 reward in several places across the internet for anyone who can show me the law that says that.

    Don't worry- it is not there.

    It is not an uncommon miconception, though. I do not know about the current administration, but several State certified trainers have told me that the LSP told them that. It is still BS.

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    Having a CC License means you must only conceal as much as having a Driver's License means you're no longer allowed to walk anywhere again.

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    The LEO may be mistaking his rules for ours. I've heard of different police departments banning OC if you are an LEO, even caliber restrictions. I believe he's thinking of what HE can't do, and just applying it to everyone else.

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    Doubtful.

    Like I said, this is a somewhat prolific belief among law enforcement and trainers- in various parts of the State. The man that was over the CHP unit before the current man told me on the phone that- while he admitted there was no legal basis for it- he would consider the holstered weapon "brandishing" and therefore negligent carry of a concealed weapon.

    BS, I know, but there it is.

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    ... he would consider the holstered weapon "brandishing" and therefore negligent carry of a concealed weapon.
    I'd love to take some of that sh*** to a jury trial and win some false arrest money like the good Mr. Marchiafava did.

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    I hear ya.

    I open carry with a CHP every day.

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    yale wrote:
    SNIP I was informed by a neighbor who is a deputy that because I have a state issued concealed carry permit I can't OC.
    We get this sort of thing from LEO's from time to time.

    Its bovine effluvia.

    Another way of looking at it would be to say that it would have to be illegal to OC anyway. In which case you would have only been able to CC all along. And since you could never have OC'd, there wouldn't be any OC right to "lose."

    If the legislaturewanted OC to be illegal, it would be. If they wantedyou to give up your OC rights when you got a CC permit,the law would say so.

    They're just trying to be lawyers. And judges--interpreting the law.

    He's probably heard this from some cop internet forum or something.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I almost don't want to bring this up again, but this information is still being taught - also that if you accidentally expose your CC firearm you're in violation of the law. Today I asked my instructors if they were absolutely sure of this and they said they were, but would check the laws again and let me know. They're decent guys and I would normally have taken them at their word on this except for the various postings I've read here.

    I just spent a few hours re-reading the firearm laws and the Concealed Carry Administrative code and can find nothing to justify this. I'm planning on calling LSP tomorrow for their take on it.

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    LSP is where the info originated, there is nothing about it in the law.

    Their last Sgt. told me that was his take, even though I also got him to admit that the law did not back him up.

    They have a new Sgt., though- maybe he is more reasonable.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    'They stuck on stupid in LA? 'Sounds like it. ONE... you cannot 'give up' a RIGHT. I don't think from readin' this those local yokel Barney Fife's know what actual Rights are.

    'CONCEALED CARRY is NOT a Right. 'Got nuthin' to do with the Right to self defense... 'just 'permission' from the Gummint to CONCEAL the weapon. BG's conceal most always... so that separates your intentions from theirs.

    One actiondoesn't trump the other. It's a permit to 'Conceal'... that's all.You don't need anybody's permission to open carry. Any 'authority' sez you do is in violation of the US Constitution. Yeah... there are those that do... 'n get away with it... But their day's comin' to an end soon.

    The Constitution only recognizes actual rights.. not grant them. The Constitution recognizes the pre-existance of such rights and declares they should be protected and not infringed upon.

    Whoever that cop was needs to go back thru CJ-101 training... as well as his stupidvisors.

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    Campaign Veteran XD-GEM's Avatar
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    Sonora, you have a nice way with words.

    I wasn't able to call Sgt. Starnes today - a co-worker went out sick and I had to take up his work in addition to mine. If he's there tomorrow, I'll have time to try again.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    When I was a cop... I was pretty much up on any 'law' I'd prob'ly encounter bein' broken. Yeah... I've busted people for concealed weapons. Guns, knives, straight razors, even saw blades (shanks) taped to legs. They were usually doin' somethin' 'other' and the weapons found incidental to that 'arrest'.

    That said... I still expect LEO's to be up on and aware of things they're most likely to encounter. I also expect these 'firearms training wonks' in the CCW courses to be cognizant of actual 'law' rather than 'lore'... or possibly their own opinions.

    It may well be that a LA LEO cannot OC... I dunno. I know some departments specify what brand and calibre of gunthey may carry off-duty as a fact.

    This isn't (as y'all have prob'ly noticed) uncommon in LA... 'n many other States. Cops DO NOT KNOW specifics of RTKBA in their States or jurisdictions. People keep gettin' arrested/hassled for doing NOTHING illegal. The Media... (which could alleviate this sort'a stuff at least locally) does nothing.

    If anything... the media will further exacerbate the situation with theis never ending parade of 'Permit, License, 'n Registration B.S. that DOES NOT EXIST in most places.

    Meanwhile... we continue to get old wives talessubstitutedfor 'law'.

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    It took me a moment. I saw the Bonnie Blue Flag and was like "Wait... what? I didn't post this(?)." Then I was like... "Oh, I see."

    :P



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    I love the fact that u have the bonnie blue on your sig. Not everybody knows what that is.

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    You know it is still enshrined in LA law for use at government buildings?



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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    It's the flag of Southern seccession... Used now days to signify States Rights... Y'all remember those?

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    It's the flag of Southern seccession... Used now days to signify States Rights... Y'all remember those?
    You must not know me.

    American Revival

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    No... I don't.

    I Do know the Bonnie Blue was flyin' from near every window in downtown Baltimore when Butlers yankees siezed the place... and the State. Also why it's still flown in SW Arizona.My home included. But... I fly all 5 of the Confederate flags regularly... plus some others from the Revolution and the Texas Republic.

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    OK, I just got off of the phone with Sgt. Jason Starnes at the LSP Concealed Handgun Unit. He confirmed what we have been saying all along: the Concealed Carry permit is simply a license that lets people know that you are not violating RS 14:95, the Illegal Carrying of Concealed Weapons. Obtaining a license does NOT cancel your Constitutional right to open carry.

    He suggested that this misinformation probably comes from a misreading of Louisiana Administrative Code Tittle 55, Part I Section 1301 (D):
    Duties and Responsibilities. Persons issued concealed handgun permits have the authority only to carry a concealed weapon and are regarded as private citizens in all matters of law with no special powers or authority ccruing by virtue of the concealed handgun permit.
    The misreading comes from stopping at the end of the first clause without looking at the whole rule in context. The rule is intended to clarify that having a concealed permit does not make one a law officer; it does not prescribe the method of carry.

    Sgt. Starnes also said that there is a false idea that there is a violation of law if your concealed handgun is accidentally exposed. For instance, if you are concealing under an untucked shirt and reach to a top shelf in a store and your shirt rides up exposing your handgun, then you are NOT in violation of the concealed handgun law (assuming you have a permit, of course).

    I'd like to add that Sgt. Starnes was a pleasure to talk with, and he said that anyone with any questions should feel free to call himat the Unit (225) 925-4867. Be aware, however, that he and his staff of 3 are also the ones doing permit approvals, so don't tie them up too long - the permit you delay may be your own.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    "Persons issued concealed handgun permits have the authority only to carry a concealed weapon..."

    Only... therein lies the rub. Badly worded... could be construed that OC is not 'allowed'. However, OC is a pre-existing'Right'... not something 'allowed'.

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